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Pio 434 + Scaler

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by Arshad, Jan 1, 2004.

  1. Arshad

    Arshad
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    Went to the store to check out the Iscan Ultra the other day. Pioneer DV-755Ai dvd player was connected to the LG plasma and so was Iscan Ultra. The difference between the 755 and Iscan ultra i saw was significant, the picture from Iscan Ultra was really clean with no visible lines.

    So now i'm really interested in getting one of these scalers for my Pio 434 plasma. I have it connected to Momitsu v880 and using the 720p but i still don't see that clarity and smoothness i saw on the Iscan ultra.

    I have done some research on these scalers and my choices are narrowed down to the following:

    1. Iscan HD(soon avaiable)
    2. CenterStage(Focus Enhancement) CS-1, CS-2 or CS-HD
    3. Lumagen VisionPro

    I like the Iscan HD but the dvi is not HDCP supported. Don't exactly know whether this should by important. CS-2 sound really good though it has all the top features and dvi(hdcp) compatibility.

    Now the question is, if the Pioneer 434 can support 1:1 pixel mapping? I have tried sending it 768p through momitsu and i get only half picture but this might have something to do with the dvd player and not the plasma. Because if 1:1 pixel mapping wasn't suported by the display i woundn't get any picture at all.

    Was going the expensive dvd route like Denon a11 but when i saw the Iscan Ultra i thought this way would be more flexible and i can just get some cheap dvd player to go along with it.

    What do you think?

    Any Pio 434 owners care to share their thoughts?

    Suggestions will be well appreciated.

    Thanks & Happy new year.
     
  2. kifimoto

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    i am looking into getting the iscan hd or ultra as well as it can enhance pq from more than one source - and the price is reasonable as well!!
    i haven't had a chance to demo it yet because the only shop i know with it av-sales dont open in the weekends!!
    would love to have more info if you've got any
     
  3. joys_R_us

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    Don't flame me for this but I firmly believe that a scaler in a last generation good brand plasma set is waste of money (to say the least). The scalers generate other problems while solving some. e.g. they limit the bandwith.
     
  4. kifimoto

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    how does it limit the bandwidth?
    i guess i'm just trying to do whatever possible to get the best picture from various sources...
    i'm not entirely sure what bandwidth means in this context
    cheers
     
  5. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Well I firmly believe :D that a high quality external videoprocessor, be it a box or htpc or whatever can make the picture much more artifact free than going direct to the panel.

    There are, of course, video processors that will make the picture much worse too and even the good ones if configured and plugged in incorrectly can look crap.

    Gordon
     
  6. Costas

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    I am very much with you on that! I have just seen a friend's 434 setup with a scaler with settings professionally checked and ....it is worse... he is sending it back!!!
     
  7. joys_R_us

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    :D Hopefully only the scaler :D
     
  8. MAW

    MAW
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    There seems to me to be little point in a scaler on HDMI with the HDE, anything you attach to this port will be scaled by the screen as it won't accept native res. Connected to VGA it might be another story, but then you might as well have bought an MXE
     
  9. Arshad

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    Just spent an hour connecting my PC to Pio 434's HDMI input. First it gave me a message this is not supported and then suddenly I saw windows loading. I couldn't get the right driver to install then managed somehow to find it manually in the driver set up.

    When i first installed the driver i could only choose 640x480 resolution. When i selected the driver manually from the list of driver available in windows xp i chose Digital Flat Panel 1024x768 driver. But now i have two resolutions only 1024x768 and 800x600. I can not select any other resolution. The picture although has fill the screen some of the picture is cut off from top and bottom, it doesn't perfectly fit in the screen like it does on the vga input.

    One more thing, the picture in the HDMI input is locked into 1125i. I cannot use the different aspect ratio available.

    This is really a headache. Why on the earth would they limit the resolution only to 720p and 1080i. If the screen has 1024x768 native resolution why can't i use it?

    Costas and joys_R_us have you guys tried connecting your PC to HDMI input? If you did what should i do to get it right?

    Most importantly does the HDMI input accept 1:1 pixel mapping from PC or external scaler or not?

    Cheers
     
  10. MAW

    MAW
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    short answer, no
     
  11. Arshad

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    Maw,

    it does accept 1:1 pixel mapping on the HDMI input. Some of the guys on the avs forum has done it and they are using their htpc connected to the HDMI input but i don't know how they managed to do it?
     
  12. Costas

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    ..and I have definitely not tried the PC..
     
  13. MAW

    MAW
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    Arshad, neither do I, then. The input modes would not appear to support it. I do not see a way of making an iscan ultra do it at all, but it still might be better than 868-hdmi. The trouble with it is that is ALWAYS wants to do something with the signal. The trick obviously, is to work out how to stop it. Considering that 768p is not supported by the input, I can't see how it can be done. If anyone can find out, it'll make interesting reading. I've spent some time with one, hooked up a pc, but did't have time to pursue this, my results were like yours.
     
  14. Arshad

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    I have already done it. Now the plasma accepts 720p and 1080i from PC and displays it as such, when 720p being played the plasma show 750p and for 1080i it show 1125i.

    What you need to do is:

    1. Keep the PC connected to your desktop monitor.

    2. Then select 1280x720p in Powerstrip's custom resolution, then Windows will restarts and you'll have that resolution in you display card control panel, select it from there and apply the new setting.

    3. When the 720p resolution has already been displayed on your monitor, disconnect the the cable for your monitor dvi or vga that is but keep the computer on and then plug the DVI-HDMI cable into your PC and the back of the media box's HDMI input.

    That's it, the plasma will show as 750p.

    But if you restart your computer the plasma will not be able to display that resolution again, you'll have to connect it back to the first monitor again and when you get the picture, disconnect the cable and again plug back the DVI-HDMI cable.

    I guess i'll have to figure out how to get it to recognize the signal when you restart the computer.

    Also some of my software are not working when set at 1080i, I tried the Windvd, zoomplayer to play a movie but the computer gets jam.

    But the picture at 720p is so sharp it almost heart my eyes.
     
  15. MAW

    MAW
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    Arshad, it sounds better, but unless it's displaying the PC cropped at the sides and black banded, it's not doing 1:1 pixel mapping, it's scaling the pc input.
     
  16. Arshad

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    Maw,

    First, I wast trying to do 1:1 pixel mapping with this display via HDMI and then i gave up because it cannot be done. I know that it does support 720p so i started to feed it 720p from PC but it wouldn't accept this either then i started to think how come the 720p from dvd player is working fine then why not the PC. what I was trying to do is to make it correctly recognize the 720p from PC as 750p like it is doing with the dvd player.

    The plasma wasn't recogniziing any PC resolution and it would lock everything into 1125i and sometimes when i choose the 1280x720p in Powerstrip and restart the Windows there is no picture, the screen is all black and it says that this signal is not supported.

    So after doing what i have mentioned in my earlier thread, i was able to make it correctly recognize the 720p from PC as 750p and 1080i as 1125i.

    Well, 1:1 pixel mapping or not i can tell that the 720p from PC is so sharp that it hearts my eyes and it's is alot sharper than the Momitsu v880.
     
  17. MAW

    MAW
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    PC input looks great on 43" pioneers whatever, but I'd love to know if the guys on AVS forums really found a way to do this. In our usual English manner of self doubt we seem to think the yanks are better at this than us, the guys who think they've done it may be getting exactly the same result as you. If you like it then do it, is all we can say, It can't be 1:1 unless the PC output is XGA though, at which point the screen looks incredibly sharp, but all your icons are a bit squashed, and any circles become ovals. 4:3 resolution stretched to 16:9 by the shape of the pixels, just like on VGA, but sharper and clearer. Depending on your graphics card, the plasma might do a better scaling job than the PC in any case, and whilst it might be scaling, it will still look very good.
     
  18. Arshad

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    The guy on the AVS forum didn't realize that although the plasma accepted the 1280x7260p resolution but it was still showing it as 1080i/1125i signal. So it was still not correctly recognized by the plasma as 720p/750p.

    I know that all the icons are a bit squashed, and any circles become ovals but it was never my intention to use the plasma as a PC monitor, i want to use my PC as HTPC so i can watch dvds on it. Since it has correctly recognized the signal as 720p now the movies look fantastic and i'm using the Radeon 9700 display card.

    The guy on the AVS forum has Pio 504 so I believe if he feed the panel 720p that would be its native resolution right? So feeding it 1280x720p means 1:1 pixel mapping, isn't it?
     
  19. MAW

    MAW
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    er, no not for him or you. He's 1280x768, but that doesn't mean it looks bad. Personally I don't give a stuff about the squashed icons either as long as they're sharp!
     
  20. howies

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    Arshad i have now got a cable to do this and powerstrip etc but haven tried it yet. just a quick question . does the same pic come out of both ports on the graphics card at the same time or does it need to switch from the vga plug to the dvi plug and have you now found a way to not have to keep swapping wires round. it would be great to have the dvi connected to the hdmi. and the vga to my monitor at the same time viewing the same thing. i would love to get this going as i know it would be good coz even through the normal computer input playing dvds through theatertek looks better than my pioneer 737 dvd player through component cables.
     
  21. Arshad

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    howies,

    Yes i have found a way. What you do is:

    1. Plug the power cable into your PC and turn it on, don't connect the DVI-HDMI cable yet.

    2. When the PC has reached the logon screen and is already displaying 720p signal. Now connect the DVI-HDMI cable.
     

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