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Pio 434 Black Levels

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by KarlRobinson, Dec 1, 2003.

  1. KarlRobinson

    KarlRobinson
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    I was comparing my Sony CRT with the 434 today to calibrate the colour.

    The only real difference I found was the poor black levels.

    Is this normal? when you look at the CRT then to the Plasma, blacks look dark grey rather than black.
     
  2. NeilMcRae

    NeilMcRae
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    Not on a panasonic plasma - its one of the key features of the panasonics over any other plasma.
     
  3. chez

    chez
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    er, surely the 434 is a Pioneer rather than a Panasonic??
     
  4. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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    er, think you missed the point of NeilMcRae's post there. :D

    :lesson: Panasonics display black as black, Pioneers display black as dark grey. A truism that was proved at The Event II where Pannys and Pios were sat next to each other; and even after ISF Calibration.

    StooMonster
     
  5. chez

    chez
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    Okay, maybe but that's not what was asked in the original post!!

    KarlRobinson asked if that was normal for a 434. If you're saying that the black level of a 434 is not as good as a panny, then the answer to Karl's question is yes!

    Anyways - I'm sure somebody who has seen both (such as yourself Stoomonster) will confirm or deny this soon enough.

    Chez


    :)
     
  6. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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    This is correct and normal for a Pioneer plasma. On one hand they are bright, on the other hand they have poor blacks; so much so that black looks more like dark grey as you describe.

    Panasonic screens, as a different example, have extremely dark blacks and excellent contract, but are not as bright.

    How's that for you chez ;)

    The ability to display black as black was one of the key drivers in my final decision of Pio-vs-Panny.

    StooMonster
     
  7. chez

    chez
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    :smashin:

    I'm actually quite interested in this myself, so thanks Stoomonster :)

    I'm trying to decide whether to get a Panny 6 or Pio 434 - THe Panny 6's that I've seen seem to suffer flicker.

    I've only seen one 434 and that was in Currys, so not a good example!!

    Hoping to get a dem of the 434 this coming weekend (having trouble finding anywhere local that has both screens!)
     
  8. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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    Not listing anything they both have and to compare like-with-like, so HD Panny (not SD) versus Pio looks something like the following*:


    Panasonic TH-42PHD6

    Pros
    Great contrast
    Black is black
    Geometry can be changed
    Many refresh rates

    Cons
    Flickers
    Rubbish internal progressive scan -- may need iScan Ultra or Lumagen
    Dimmer
    No third-party card support


    Pioneer PDP-434HDE

    Pros
    Doesn't flicker
    Good internal progressive scan
    Brighter
    Third-party card support -- like Key Digital PIO768P (one day)

    Cons
    Poor contrast
    Black is grey
    Geometry is fixed
    Fewer refresh rates


    *Apologies to all fans of either camp if any detail missed out, or detail is out of date.

    Most of these points could be clearly observed at The Event II where the 42" and 50" versions of these were side by side.

    StooMonster
     
  9. chez

    chez
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    Thanks StooMonster - very useful information (certainly for things to look out for when auditioning!)

    I assume the SD Panny has the same pros/cons as the HD one??
     
  10. PhilCTTE

    PhilCTTE
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    I have the Panny 6 and there is no flicker. Maybe it was poorly installed where you saw this ?. I'm assumming static white text on a black background as per film credits etc, is where any flicker would be highlighted ? If this is the case then there is none .
     
  11. Cummo

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    I'm very susceptible to flicker which is why I have upgraded from the panny 5 SD to the 6 HD. In the brief time that i have owned it, I have only seen a very fine flicker with a white screen from a low definition input and when I have fed it with a 1080P signal @ 60hZ from a lumagen vision.
     
  12. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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    I don't think my Panny5 50" flickers much, but some say 42"SD series 5 did. But series 6 appears flicker free (and this wasn't something that was visible at The Event II).

    So, strike flicker from the above.

    StooMonster
     
  13. KarlRobinson

    KarlRobinson
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    NeilMcRae

    I looked at the Panny next to the Pio and the blacks looked no different. On reflection I should of compared the two next to a CRT.
     
  14. gandley

    gandley
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    well i owned both a panny pw5 and a 503hde and the blacks on the pio sucs.

    it tended to iluminate blacks and from my friends 434 the same is the case. my pw5 has better blacks(434 is a bit better than 503 to be fair)

    the pio however in a bright pic has a nice 3d feel to it but on poor source. oh dear
     
  15. MAW

    MAW
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    Stoomonster, I'd say the pio you refer to is a MXE? No card upgrades for HDE screens, and for me a major down side is the damn media box. But it's certainly true the blacks do not reach panasonic depths, whichever Pioneer screen you look at.
     
  16. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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    Correct. Good job I had that disclaimer up there!

    StooMonster
     
  17. Costas

    Costas
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    I question the poor contrast statement.
    Did you see such a thing? Just bear in mind that Panasonic measures contrast in a different way showing much higher ratios.
    I do not remember how they do it but I read somewhere the 434 has a higher contrast if they measured it the Panasonic way...
     
  18. MAW

    MAW
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    Contrast is too subjective to leave to numbers anyway, but you still have to decide whether it's black blacks, or good resolution, functional DVI, and total absence of flicker that is most important to you.
     
  19. RAMiAM

    RAMiAM
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    I have a Pio and the black levels have never bothered me, to be honest I never notice it. In addition the colour range is better than the Panny and also the previous Panny models suffered on the inputs and DVI is still limited on the 50" models to a non-native res'.

    You should also note that in all fairness the Panny blacks are not as some say "blacks are black", they are just darker than the Pio.
    I think for true black you need a contrast of 15,000 or something insane. Far from what either panel can produce.

    RAMiAM
     
  20. gandley

    gandley
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    yes true but the MXEs which u have were superior to the HDEs with better processing etc.

    nice car, very nice, luv the blue. marcos eh. a bit slow though. my yam R1 will show it clean heels. if u can see them in the distance that is. LOL(its not making up for somthing else is it........)
     
  21. Costas

    Costas
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    gandley

    I do not know how the next version of the MXE will perform but the new 434/504 HDE seems to beat the current MXE. The new HDE have the MXE processing on board and have it improved further. My neighbour has the MXE and I had the 433HDE. You could see the difference then. Now I moved to the 434 and it is very hard to see a difference other than noticing the the 434 is a little better.
     
  22. MAW

    MAW
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    I have put off plasma purchase for myself till I see the new MXE. Doesn't mean I'm set on buying one, but I've got to see it.
     

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