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Pio 2011 bi-amp question

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by meep, Nov 2, 2003.

  1. meep

    meep
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    Quickie question;

    If i use the bi-amp feature of the 2011 and use the surround back speaker terminals for fronts, does anyone know what comes out of the surround rear pre-outs?

    I like my 7.1 but would also like to bi-amp and perhaps use a smaller power-amp or setereo integrated to drive rears. I'd like to use the decoding capabilities of the 2011 to drive the rear channels as well but am not sure if this will work in bi-amp mode. 9ie is it restricted to 5.1 only, even in decoding???)

    The manual is silent on this issue and I don't have an amp around to test with.

    Thanks

    Peter
     
  2. avdesigns

    avdesigns
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    I would be interested in the answer to this one as I've got my fronts bi-amped.
     
  3. jameslindsey

    jameslindsey
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    I also have my fronts bi-amped.

    I would have thought that the switch between 5.1 bi-amped & 7.1 would be done at the processing stage as what goes through the surrounds will change depending on processing format. To this effect it is likely that the pre out channels will reflect the same output as the amped outputs so I would suggest that you'll get the front channel information, nice idea though.

    Just my assumption, not sure how I'd test it.
     
  4. meep

    meep
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    To test, you would need another amp and pair of speakers. Connect up the rear surround pre-outs to that amp and see what comes out!

    If it's the same as the front l/r, then that answers the question.

    James & Av, in your bi-amp set-ups, can you select Sb Ch Mode? In Music processing options, do you get 7 Channel Stereo mode or is it just 5 channel stereo mode?

    These would be two good indicators of what we could expect from the rear surround pre-outs.

    Peter
     
  5. fred123go

    fred123go
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    if you bi-amp the fronts you get surround back channels through the pre-outs, my uncle uses the AX-5i and bi-amps the front and uses a Rotel power amp to power the surround back channels.
    Fred
     
  6. meep

    meep
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    Well, got the loan of a stereo amp to test this. Bad news I'm afraid.

    Setting the Amp up in bi-amp mode and taking surround-back pre-out to the stereo amp results in partial front l/r being fed to the surround rear speakers (connected to the stereo amp).

    Bummer.

    maybe the AX5i is wired differently or maybe your uncle is simply duplicating the surrounds (side) by taking surround )rather than surround rear) pre-outs?

    Regards

    Peter
     
  7. fred123go

    fred123go
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    hmmmm are you sure you have set it up correctly, i will try connect an amp with my 2011 but it does not seem logical-there must be loads of people who would bi-amp the fronts and still want 7.1 decoding, are you sure you have changed the right settings?
    Fred
     
  8. meep

    meep
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    Absolutely

    Connected Front l/r speakers to Front and Surround speaker outputs
    Connected Surround Pre-Out to 2nd Amp CD in via phone
    Connected Surround rear speakers to 2nd Amp
    Set 2011 surround setting to Bi Amp Fronts
    Played a stereo CD in Direct mode

    Result:
    Sound from front speakers
    Diminished sound from rear speakers
    No sound from center or surround speakers

    Conclusion
    Rear surround pre-out is distributing same sounds as rear surround speaker outputs.

    I agree that the preferred option would be to output surround data from the pre-outs.

    Interestingly, when I switched to 5 Channel pseudu surrond music mode, the display stated 5 Channel + VSB. I presume this stands for Virtual Surround Back but again the manual is silent on this.

    Hmm

    Peter
     
  9. jameslindsey

    jameslindsey
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    I assumed the surround back output was an extra channel derived from the normal surround speakers? I could be wrong but this testing tends to suggest this.

    Does switching off the surround back option change what sound is diverted to the normal surround speakers? If so then the signal switching will have to be done at processor stage. If however the surround backs are a separate descrete signal not affecting normal surround speakers then in theory depending on the amp signal path design it may be feasable.
     
  10. meep

    meep
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    James

    That all depends on settings employed. In many cases, (such as Music 7 channel suurround mode for example), the 2011 calculates all surround channels based on only the front l/r )

    With some movies, if the soundtrack is 5.1, then swicthing Sb Ch to ON will derive the rear speaker from the surround channels. However, many movies have EX/ES or discrete rear channel information whereby the sounds routed to the two rear speakers are DIFFERENT than those heard from the side surrounds.

    It looks like the 2011 switches off all rear surround processing in bi-amp mode.

    Ah well.

    Peter
     
  11. jameslindsey

    jameslindsey
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    Complicated little bugger isn't it?

    Well happy with mine, not got any room for 7 speakers anyway.
     

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