Pinnacle Studio 10 can I burn to more than one disc ?

Discussion in 'Camcorders, Action Cams & Video Making Forum' started by Figment, Jan 1, 2007.

  1. Figment

    Figment
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    Hi guys & happy new year to all.
    Hoping for some help here regarding the wedding video for my daughter who is chomping at the bit for me to finally get it finished, the wedding was only in July after all !!.
    I am nearing completion of the project which has turned into a bit of an epic and at this time comes in at a whopping 2hrs 20mins after editing :eek:
    The obvious problem is that this is in no ones wildest imagination going to fit on one disc at a good quality. I am wondering what is going to be my best option. Ideally I don't want to split the project into 2 or 3 separate ones and so I ask if anyone has had a similar situation they have managed to overcome.
    I have an LG DVD SuperMulti Re-Writer and am considering trying to burn to a dual layer disc, would even this be enough space ? and also never having tried a dual layer burn what are the pitfalls ? including playback compatibility with the average DVD player that granny and the like are likely to own.
    I read on the Pinnacle support that Studio will look for a chapter mark near the middle of the project to end the first layer and start the second and if it does not find one where it likes it will then insert one.
    Does this mean I will end up with an extra untitled chapter on my main front menu and bugger up the formatting of my current 6 chapters ?.
    I am very skeptical about this operation as if studio isn't flaky enough as it is without throwing this at it and causing even more crashes than I already suffer. I am using Studio version 10.5 right now because the project was started before 10.7 was available and Pinnacle advise not to upgrade before finishing the current project.
    I have a nasty feeling that the most stable solution is going to be the multi-project option burning onto separate discs but would really appreciate advice from those of you more knowledgeable than I.
    Many Thanks.
     
  2. laser

    laser
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    I'd definately trying burning to dual layer, even if you only do one or two copies which you can test in your daughters DVD player. This will at least allow a high bitrate of around 7MB/s over the 2h15min worth of footage, more if you use DD soundtrack rather than PCM. The obvious drawback is the cost of the DL DVD+R's but if you are only producing a few, no doubt the cost is worth it.

    Unfortunetly, you don't have much option if you don't want to split your project for a single layer DVD-R. However, even at 2h15mins, you should be able to achieve a bitrate of 4.1MB/s if you use MP3 or DD for the soundtrack.

    I have also just produced a 2h10min DVD and the picture quality was fine. However I did make the following changes to improve the look of the DVD. At lower bitrates the PQ was fine but transitions looked pixelated due to lower bitrate. I removed the fades and just used straight cuts but added l and j cuts for the sound to make the cuts less harsh. The PQ does not now suffer from the pixelation where the transitions where and the editing still looks great. Plus it renders a lot quicker.
     
  3. senu

    senu
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    ( Im not very sure about "more" knowledge, I do know about having been there before though:D )

    I would suggest Doing the "epic" onto 2 discs for the following reasons

    Compressing 2hrs + footage onto one disc is , as you say risking poor PQ

    Im very wary of Dual layer discs and video work because of uncertainties with DVD playback compatibility of various players
    And
    Software compatibility no matter what Pinnacle claims with Studio :rolleyes: With Avid Liquid 7 & and Vegas Im a lot more comfortable: They are also less likely to play up at 2 hrs 13 mins!

    Pinnacle Studio may be doing OK now. It is not known for stability with longer projects.
    I shudder to think what happens if it throws a wobbly at 2 hr 5mins and gets you back to Square one:(

    Also have a little mercy on the end user:rotfl:

    They may be easier for them to watch "Each part" separately as a different disc. It is unlikely that they would sit down to watch it all in one go.
    It also makes it easier to borrow say, a friend one disc or other or to even have a disc in separate players for playback as convenient

    In order to help your work along . I would suggest not using Studio to author the DVD. Just edit, output to DVD mpeg2 or DV AVI in 2 parts ( to avoid being victim to Studio Playing up at 2 hr 15min ) and make your DVD in a different Application like Ulead Movie Factory 4 or 5.

    You can experiment and make a single layer DVD with 2 big cahpters or make 2 Separate DVD: Part one Part 2 each having a chapter structure you can make by making chapter points from each of the projects
     
  4. Figment

    Figment
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    Many thanks for your replies guys. Senu I often see your posts and read with interest, you are very much more knowledgeable on this subject than I despite your modesty and I was rather hoping you would pick up on this thread.
    Despite wanting to go the dual layer route as laser says is possible, I don't really want to loose the transitions etc and think that I would be really pushing the envelope taking into account the File size, specs of my system and the distrust I have in Studio.
    I appreciate that the best part of 2.5 hrs is overly long for watching as well, and given my choice would ruthlessly edit it down but the daughter wants to keep the whole of the ceremony and speeches which has little editing and accounts for well over an hour.
    So, I am now leaning towards a separate 2 disc option but would like some further advice.
    Can I open the project and re-edit by removing the 2 above sections and then save-as with a different file name ? then reopen the original again and do the same this time removing what was left the first time and then save-as again with a third name leaving me with effectively 3 files, original, disc1 and disc 2 ?. Also should I want to save a back-up of these to an external drive is there any other files i need to look for to save other than the ones in the saved to folder that has the studio 10 icon alongside the file name ?.
    I don't really know how to edit in Studio then author in another programme and i don't have Ulead only Roxio Easy media creator platinum. I have successfully burnt 1 hour plus projects in studio before so hope it will cope with this.
    Sorry to be a pain but this is still a sharp learning curve for me.
     
  5. senu

    senu
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    Thanks for the compliments:blush:
    You seem to be on the right track

    You could open your project and "save as " twice using different names and then leaving the first one intact ( so you can get back to it if need be)

    You would then have 3 "copies of the same project ( to start with)

    You could then open each of the newly saved projects in turn and re-edit them the way you wish
    You can then "make movie" on each project at separate times outputting as Dvd mpeg2 or DV AVI . In the Early days Pinnacle studio was rather better at completing projects outputted as DV AVI and was more likely to crash if mpeg2 was required:devil:

    This will leave you with 2 video files ready to become DVDs or a DVD video

    For DVD arthoring
    You can use something as simple as Nero vision to make the DVDs . I do have Roxio but use it mainly for its excellent Audio rather than video

    Most DVD authoring applications work on the premise that you will input video files ( DV Avi or Dvd ready mpeg2) and construct a simple menu structure.
    With some you can capture direct from camcorder , do a little trimming , text and burn the DVD.
    The advantage of his method is that the resulting DVD may have video on it from various sources created at very different times: bit like a video montage. The disadvantage is needing to own more than one software and needing a bit more time but the flexibility is worth is. Sony Vegas Family use this method by as Vegas does not have intergrated DVD Authoring but uses its standalone DVDA

    If you input DVD ready mpegs, they will author a DVD very quickly as they don't tend to reencode, If you give a DV AVi they will take longer as they have to encode to mpeg2s first before creating the DVD structure. This is not always a bad thing if as in the case of Pinnacle studio you would rather have an AVI than a crashed project.

    I think MovieFactory for its cost is very hard to beat for simplicity of use and ease of getting good results .
    Although I also use Movie Workshop2 ( less hand holding) I practically use Mf 2-3x a week . Only lately have been using DVDA ( Vegas) in order to get very slick with it: It does have a lot more control options but until lately has not been sold as a separate package from Vegas or Vegas Movie studio

    If you want to try MF you could download a trail here to see how it feels or PM me with an address
     
  6. chrishull3

    chrishull3
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    if it was me i would output the edited film to dv tape or tapes and copy via firwire to dvd recorder if you have one i never bother burning strait to disk from pinnacle,all the best chris
     
  7. Figment

    Figment
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    Senu thanks again.
    I think for the time being I will get the project finished and then save-as and split as you suggest and then try my luck to burn direct from Studio.
    I would still like an answer to the question of what files to look for to save for back-up other than the obvious project file if any ?.
    I have been looking for a while at the Vegas version 6 contemplating a change after getting so frustrated with Studio, maybe for my next project do you think Movie Factory a better buy ? and do you have a discounted source that your pm request intimates ?
    At least I now feel I am getting somewhere and tell the daughter there is light at the end of the tunnel, 2008 maybe ? :rolleyes:
     
  8. senu

    senu
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    As you know, the software creates edited footage by referring directly to source material if unchanged, only creating new footage from render files for edits ( ie transitions titles , effects)
    As a consequence, after an edit you would have your original files, references to it, and render files: only when you "make movie" are completely new files created from theses sources to create the edited file

    In order to clear up HDD space after making the "movie", the render files can then be discarded. Studio calls these "auxiliary files".
    Im not sure Pinnacle Studio has more of a backup strategy for project files as it will delete auxiliary files if the location for auxiliary files is changed.
    The only suggestion is to make tape ( save as DV AVI ) and record back to DV tape if you require your edited footage archived in high quality:
    You will not be able to undo any edits but it is still better than losing it all after the time used to edit.

    Vegas Movie Studio 6 ( and 7) are :
    More Stable
    More Focused
    But
    Not as easy to grasp immediately despite having very good tutorials but after that initial unfamiliarity , a more mature software. You can ultimately do a lot with it rather more quite easily once you know how ( and be rather more confident it wont "crash":eek: )

    One of the problems of Pinnacle Studio is that it really does have a very intuitive layout and GUI ( one of the best at its budget level) and moving from it elsewhere can be a culture shock ( albeit short lived) ..shame it is so flaky.
    Adobe Premiere Elements 3 is giving Studio a run for its money in the "easy to use" stakes but ultimately despite its newly friendlier face,APE3 can also challenge a newbee :rotfl: .It also runs unhappily on slower spec macines

    MovieFactory is a DVD authoring Software , with some rudimentary editing. It is not an editor and as such cannot be compared directly to Vegas Movie Studio or Pinnacle Studio. Vegas (+DVD ) However has DVD Architect which is like MovieFactory in that it is a DVD Authoring software

    I don't have a discounted source for MF: It is low price anyway. I do have an uninstalled ver 4 ( which may now found free on some mag covers) which I feel may be better than a trial ver of 5 in that it is not limited in anyway and will allow you see what its all about.
    However if you want to gamble on its being OK solely based on recommendation. it shouldnt set you back much.;)
     
  9. Figment

    Figment
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    Thanks once again Senu. I will let you know how I get on in the fullness of time. As you say it is a great shame that Studio is so flaky when it is so intuitive and for its price point very powerful. I had hoped that when Pinnacle were acquired by Avid that they may have thrown their resources at it to overcome what the vast majority of it users seem to agree on that it is so unstable and many vote with their feet.
    As mentioned before I have not yet upgraded to 10.7 but frankly I am not holding my breath that after so many so called "fixes" that this will be any different.
    I did used to use Ulead many incarnations ago and was not impressed at all then which was what lead me to move to Studio back at about version 7. I am afraid I am very much of the once bitten twice shy camp where I feel manufacturers have let me down and for my next big project which is already in the can I may well give Vegas a go. I can cope with the learning providing it is rewarded with stability and quality of output, its when you spend time and good money on products that are really not fit for purpose that I get teed off about.
     
  10. Mr.Nice.Guy

    Mr.Nice.Guy
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    I have to agree with Senu, I've been playing around with a demo of Vegas for a week now and so far it hasn't crashed on me :clap:, except if I select a HTPC recording. I also think that Vegas is quite simple to learn (probably just scratched the surface of it), but maybe I'll regret this statement later on :rolleyes:.
    When Vegas supports AVCHD then I'll think about buying the full version, also because of the network rendering capabilities, which hopefully savaes a lot of rendering time, and ofload some of the rendering to my laptop and HTPC.
     
  11. senu

    senu
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    All the best there:smashin:

    Suffice to say that I found Pinnacle Studio 7 totally unusable( esp at the " make movie" stage where it would hang unfailingly) ,
    To add insult to injury, its "upgrade" Ver 8 was most definitely a rushed atrociously flaky product even worse than 7 IMHO No no of update patches could redeem it
    .As for Ver 9 ....well 9.4 was mostly fine :
    News that Ver 10 would use Liquids engine rekindled my hope but early adopters were let down.. So I resolutely refused to buy it
    I then got a complimentary copy of ver 10 which has since remained installed on a test machine ( not used for any serious work) till ver 10.5.
    It has remained OK but gets less use these days. Ver 10.7 doesn't "feel" different to me from 10.5.
    As you can see, like many others, Ive had my share of frustration with it in the past:thumbsdow

    As Ive said in past posts onthe subject, Pinnacle Studio has been responsible for putting some folk off video editing....... Permanently :devil: ( at least on the PC ie)
    .I find myself very hesitant to recommend it unreservedly if at all even though my 9 year old can use it, so simple is its GUI ( when it works:mad: )

    It was my experience with Pinnacle Studio that made me realise it seemed more comfortable at outputting to DV AVI without crashing and it didnt like long projects , hence the need to get standalone mpeg encoders ( arguably better ) or Use separate DVD authoring software to do the encoding ( albeit at cost of time and one more step in workflow) and DVD authoring instead of using its own more convenient integrated plug in

    I similarly have not warmed to Ulead Video Studio ( despite rave reviews) until ver 10 plus: This Unlike Pinnacle software, has nothing to do with stability. I just find its interface too cluttered and far too much seems to be automated .
    I think the whole programme ( fully featured though it is,) is long overdue for a GUI revamp.

    However, I have nothing but praise for Ulead MovieFactory ( From ver 3 to 5+ now)

    Ulead MovieWorkshop2 is similarly easy to use but more capable ( and stable ).It is a shame Ulead ( now owned by Corel which in 2006 bought out Intervideo which had taken over Ulead in 2005) seem to have stopped developing it as it is a good 3 years old. Another Ulead Product "Cool 3D studio" is rather good at what it does

    As such I wouldn't nessesarily use brand names to "judge" products although you are certainly entitled to feel "once bitten....."::(

    As an aside, Pinnacle Liquid Edition ( 6, 6.1) : Now Avid Liquid 7 and Pinnacle Studio compared are nothing like each other for stability despite having similar "first " names!
     

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