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Picture Quality - 880 vs E30

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by Marcus Wood, Dec 28, 2002.

  1. Marcus Wood

    Marcus Wood
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    I'm thinking of getting one of these recorders, but I read somewhere that the Philips has slightly better picture quailty in SP mode - can anyone comment on this?

    Picture quality is a major consideration for me, because I'm planning to get a front projector soon.
     
  2. malcom

    malcom
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    As an E20 and E30 owner I can confirm the picture quality is excellent. I would doubt the Philips would be better in any way. All the reviews I have read put the picture quality aspects of both formats neck and neck with each other. The Panny of course is far more flexible with it's FR function where by you can achieve maximum quality for any chosen recording time.

    I think your only concern really should be to decide on the other aspects and format differences. Linear recording technology (Philips) versus Random access technology (Panny). To me the choice is glaringly obvious. Malcom.
     
  3. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    Have to agree there - the FR mode is fantastic. Saves worrying about all those programmes that just overrun 2 hours by a few minutes.
     
  4. roadtorode

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    But they said that about Betamax !:D
     
  5. malcom

    malcom
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    If your old enough to remember Betamax then scenelity could be a problem. :D :D :D I should know!!!!!!!
     
  6. Rasczak

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    Of course the DVD Recorder situation is nothing like the VHS/Betamax war as all recorders produce highly compatible write-once media, all have PC equivalents (meaning media won't disappear) and all will have a (relatively) short shelf life. Thus surely the only question is what produces the best result? And surely most people who read these forums ARE interested in the best result as opposed to Joe Public who probably is more concerned about cost?
     
  7. James45

    James45
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    yep that damn scare story just before christmas about recordable DVD incompatability really annoyed me, all my relatives seemed to be under the impression that DVD would be obsolete shortly. I spent ages convincing them that the bloke on the news was wrong and I was right.

    Bloody Chris Choy (that's what you get when you turn a former That's Life presenter into a TV reporter). Bloody lazy, ignorant journalism, he thought he'd create a little scare because he had nothing to write about and delved into a subject he obviously has no idea about.:rolleyes:

    sorry I had to get that off my chest and the last post touched on the subject.
     
  8. malcom

    malcom
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    Thank's James45. Just how I feel but have refrained from saying. Your words have made me feel better too :D

    Rasczak. Joking aside you are quite correct. The Betamax comparison is a load of nonsense just like the reporting on the format wars as mentioned by James45.

    Now I really feel better...... :D
     
  9. alan8477

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    I use the Philips 890 and am very pleased with it. Picture quality is exellent and it is very easy and convenient to use. I have no regrets about the purchase.
     
  10. Marcus Wood

    Marcus Wood
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    I'm leaning towards the Panasonic, but there are a few sticking points:

    AFAIK, the Panasonic doesn't have any kind of set top box control, but the Philips does - that could be useful. On the other hand I might be able to buy a Videoplus thing and use that with the E30.

    There don't seem to be any PC DVD burners that support DVD RAM and have black faceplates. I would like to be able to convert DVD RAMs (or with the Philips DVD-RWs) to DVD R using my PC (ie copy them to the hard drive then burn to a DVD R).

    By the way:

    Does the FR facility work with DVD Rs?

    Does anyone know if the E30 and Philips 880 can both record NTSC (useful for backing up my Laserdiscs)?
     
  11. Faust

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    I have just purchased the DMR E30 and am over the moon with it, now that I have sorted out how to connect the damm thing up to include the Sky box and my VCR. I looked long and hard at the 880 and the DMR30. I think as a replacement for the VCR the E30 wins hands down. Watch one recorded programme whilst another is still recording, chasing playback, time slip ect. ect. and from what I have read the E30 handles dodgy video recordings far better than the 880. Yes I am happy.

    :D
     
  12. Rasczak

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    Yes - the Flexible Recording Mode works with DVD-Rs.

    The E20 and E30 (and I believe the HS2) can all record in NTSC.



    Yeah this is what I do. Most modern Toshiba DVD-ROMs can read DVD-RAMs (to access the files) which can then be burnt onto DVD-R. Be warned though once you start doing this you will lose hours of your life designing menus etc!!

    The E30 does have Videoplus support ASAIK - the HS2 certainly does.
     
  13. malcom

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    Faust is correct. I can confirm the E30 will handle any condition VHS tape and not one grumble. No "No signal message" that I have so often heard from the philips users when copying their old VHS tapes. Unlike the +RW format I believe proper TBC is installed in the Panny machines hence the superior handling of VHS tapes. As far as I am concerned it is the most sensible and versatile replacement for the humble VCR.
     
  14. alex f

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    How are you guys connecting your E30 to VCR? I have vcr scart to composite E30 but the quality is not very good, I'm watching it on a Plasma and quality has always been pants but it looks even worse since the E30 was included??? Or am I missing something?

    Cheers

    Alex
     
  15. Rasczak

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    I use a 'CopyMate' between my VCR and E20/HS2. Helps to ensure a stable picture which has two benefits. Firstly it ensures the best image from the VCR. Secondly the 'improved' image requires a reduced bitrate to maintain quality.

    I don't know if other E20/E30/HS2 users use this device but given that the various options are quite cheap (£40ish) it's probably worth it if you have a lot of VHS recordings to archive.
     
  16. roadtorode

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    The comment about betamax was very firmly tongue-in-cheek, but the bottom line is, due to the industries inability to get it sorted at the outset, there will be people, in 12-18 months time, who are using the 'format looser' and may struggle. At least I can be sure my crappy VHS tape can play in my great-aunts player. I can't guarantee that with home written DVD yet...

    The up side of all of this is a price war, so I guess we're all winners in the short term.

    Curious about this new article about the demise of DVD. What the hell was that all about ?!:eek:
     
  17. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    Why will people 'struggle'? Will the machines stop recording? Will the ability to record write-once only media disappear? Will the machines stop being able to play DVD-Videos? All types of media will continue to be readily available as they are all used by PCs/MACs.

    Also, in the five or so years (max) that these machines will be competing, do you honestly see any of the camps giving up on their products.

    Even if you absoltely certain one format will prevail completely over the other then the bottom line (with regard to the write once media) is that, given that the finished product is a DVD-Video, recordings could be copied to the 'winning' format by a simple data transfer. You could do this at any Internet Cafe.

    Personally I am yet to find a player that rejects a DVD-R. Even my five year old Creative Labs DVD-ROM drives reads them. Compatibility will only improve with time.
     
  18. Faust

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    First daisy chain the RF connections as follows, aerial RF in into Sky digi box RF out into DMR E30, RF out of DMR 30 into RF in VCR and then RF out of VCR into television. Then take a Scart lead and connect the VCR output into the Sky AV2 (Sky boxes have one RGB output AV1(TV) and one composite input/output AV2 (VCR))

    With another scart lead connect the Sky RGB AV1output to the DVD-RAM AV2 input. When you have done that use a further scart lead to connect this to your RGB input on the TV, usually AV1. When a VCR composite signal is sent the RGB input will switch to the composite mode.

    The Sky satellite receiver should be set to RGB in the set-up menu.

    DVD-RAM AV1 and AV2 are set to RGB and AV2 connection is set to Decoder. If you are using a Panasonic PL1 or similar remember to set the AV2 decoder to ON in the
    set-up menu.

    Hope you find this useful,
     
  19. DaveG

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    OK you've convinced me, the E30 it is then. Now where is the best buy? and can you confirm the E30 plays RCE titles, where as the 880 doesn't .
     
  20. Marcus Wood

    Marcus Wood
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    Rasczak,

    I think the E30 does include Videoplus, but for recording from satellite that's not much use unless there is some sort of control interface between the DVD Recorder and the Sky box.

    What I meant was that maybe I could buy a standalone Videoplus handset separately and use that to control the DVD Recorder and Sky box. These handsets work by sending an IR command to start and stop the recorder and change channels. I was thinking the Videoplus handset could just learn any IR codes.

    However, I've now looked at the Videoplus website, and they've stopped producing the handsets. Also, it looks like the handsets do not have the facility to learn codes from another remote- they just use preprogrammed ones.

    I guess I could try to get an old Videoplus handset on Ebay, and then go into a shop that has an E30 on display and see if it works.

    Marcus
     
  21. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    Sorry Malcom - I misunderstood.
     
  22. Faust

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    £399.95 includes free delivery or if you phone them collect from your nearest store - worked like a dream for me, pack contains 2 ram disks one in caddy one not. This leads me to my next question, why are some disks in caddy and some not? I know you can remove the disks from the caddy, but keep knocking the plastic retaining peg out of the caddy will not do it much good in the long term.

    :D
     
  23. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    If you keep RAM disks in their caddies you can virtually guarentee that they will last for the 10,000+ recordings promised. If you don't then, like +RW and -RW, they won't last half as long as they should.

    I think Panasonic are pushing the non-caddy RAM disks because they 'look' more compatible than the ones in caddies (I appreciate all can be removed) and therefore looks better in adverts etc.

    Personally I am sticking to ones in caddies.
     
  24. Bogside

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    I got mine from multiregionmagic.co.uk for £429 a couple of months ago (so the price might have dropped again since). It was multi-region and plays RCE titles.
     
  25. kenfowler3966

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    You may be interested to note that Betamax was a favoured solution in Japan and the last machine came off the production line only a few months ago.

    I suspect that the vhs recorder is now on borrowed time and will soon be seen much like we percieve the cassette recorder for music now. How many people now buy pre-recorded music on cassette? There will be a limited market for those with vhs collections and want to play them, and cheap recorders for those who can't yet stretch to a dvd recorder for program time shifting. Will people actually want them is the real question. If great Aunts player packs up will she replace it? I haven't any way now to play my some hundred or so pre-recorded music cassettes and will probably dispose of them eventually as I know the quality is crap due to wear over the years. If my music is not on a cd now I am not really interested in trying to play it due to the loss of quality, and have even replaced favourite music tapes and vhs tapes with their modern equivalents to get the best quality.
    DVD recorders are already down to the level of what top of the range vhs was 3 years ago, and they look inherently cheaper to make. DVD drives are near identical to their computer equivalents and probably easier to make than a vhs tape drive unit, and the difference in electrical components cost must be marginal. Once the development costs are recovered I think DVD recorders will plummet to below the £200 mark. I also suspect that they will last longer. I have tended to wear out vhs machines in 18 momths to 2 years regularly in the past, but I have never had a computer cd or dvd unit fail on me yet.
     
  26. DaveG

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    Ordered mine yesterday from multiregionmagic for £449,:) I don't think £50 more for a multiregion machine is to much.
    I'm still waiting for the confirmation e-mail from them, coz I was hoping it would arrive tomorrow, and I don't think they deliver on Saturdays.
    Just out of interest does anyone know if the DVD-R's will play on a Proline machine?
     

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