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picture perfect?

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by dvdforum, Jun 2, 2002.

  1. dvdforum

    dvdforum
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    My family recently purchased a SONY KV-32LS60 widescreen tv and I have been given the job of connecting the other bits to it
    The DVD player is a JVC XV-S42, the VCR is a Mitsubishi(which has seen better days) and is used only for recording and the satellite digibox is PACE model which SKY provided. I have connected them all with
    Everyone else thinks the picture is fine except when viewing SKY text or BBC interactive. There is quite a strong flicker and this can be noticed on SKY menus also. Any ideas what could be causing this?
    Up close the picture is dire but when you move back it improves is this typical of widescreen TVs?
    I have noticed during the world cup matches that the ball appears to have a blur around its outline but when the camera is up close the picture is fine and also in the studio it is ok but with fast movement it appears slightly blurry, any ideas?
    The colour black on DVDs appears slightly dull, the player or the TV? What are good DVDs to check the picture quality?
    Am I expecting too much from a new TV? The TV is 100hz and I don't think you can reset it to 50hz, I recently read that 100hz is just a gimmick to con consumers and often causes a distortion in picture quality, any opinions?
    I'd like to get the best picture possible so any help would be appreciated
     
  2. Squirrel God

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    With what?? :)

    I have the 28" version. If you mean the line flicker, yes there is a tiny amount. not much though. I can only really see it during menus and on-screen text. The reason is because the LS60s do not include the stuff like Advanced Digital Plus and Digital Reality Creation that you get in other Sony models - these technologies help to reduce line flicker (among other things). But they also tend to introduce the various side effects that you have read about with 100Hz sets. This was one of the reasons that I went for the LS60 - I didn't want the extraneous digital processing. The line flicker is negligable as far as I'm concerned and the picture is certainly far more stable and clearer than on a 50Hz set IMO.

    If you sit right in front of *any* TV then you will notice various flaws - these are mainly from the digital compression used by the broadcaster and on DVDs, but you will also notice the scanning lines if you sit too close. The larger the TV, the more important it is to sit a fair distance back or you will notice more flaws. With my 28", I sit at least 2m back from the set (so any comments I have made with regards to this set, here and elsewhere, are based on that sort of viewing distance).

    I can't say I've noticed this. But horizontal scrolling text is very blurred (almost impossible to read) - that is a common problem with 100Hz TVs. I think the football looked great (again though, it depends on the broadcasters and what medium you are using - e.g. sky, digital terrestrial, analogue). Try comparing your Sky transmission with the analogue signal from the aerial. If it looks worse on Sky then it will be because of the digital compression.

    I'd say the player. JVC are not renowned for making good DVD players. Read the review of your JVC player here: http://www.whatvideotv.com/testbench/DVDPlayers/JVC/JVCXV-S42.shtml . It's not very favourable I'm afraid. For example,

    "Close examination shows that the edges aren't perfectly sharp, but this isn't troublesome from a normal viewing distance."

    "On a more negative note, there is a little solarisation in the background and brighter areas. Dark scenes are also slightly spoilt by faint, thick vertical lines which are just visible enough to take the clarity out of the picture. And there's some grain noticeable in closeup shots."

    Could this be what you are seeing?

    I use a Sony DVP NS300 with my KV28LS60 and the pictures are quite simply stunning in their clarity, contrast and colour, with true black levels (as you'd expect from a Trinitron tube). The same is true of the pictures from my Pace digibox.

    In my case, both are connected via RGB (Scarts 1 and 2), and I use good quality Ixos cables. If you are using cheap Scart cables, investing in new ones that are gold-plated, oxygen free, and individually shielded will result in great gains in picture and sound quality. Also, you have paid for 2 RGB Scarts with this TV, so make sure you use them! :)

    You will almost certainly also need to play with the various picture settings in the TV. For example, you might have the brightness turned up too much (adjusting brightness affects black levels). If you'd like me to post my settings, let me know and I'll be happy to post. :)

    Also, I recently posted a review of my KV28LS60. You might want to read it and see how your set compares (if you haven't already).

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37326&highlight=kv28ls60

    Regards,

    SG
     
  3. Doubledoom

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    I agree. Until you tell us how you connected it up and what video signals you used, we can't really tell you.

    Widescreen sets are bigger (usually) so sitting close up you would spot more faults in the transmission. Also, if you use the stretch and crop mode for viewing 4:3 material, you create more problems.

    If you have any digital enhancements turned on, such as DNR, then you can introduce problems whilst viewing digital sources.

    Overly high contrast doesn't help either.

    With modern 100hz sets, blurring usually occurs with a poor set-up and can be eliminated.
     
  4. dvdforum

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    Sorry for the double posting I was unsure which forum it should be placed in.Thanks for the replies. HAve noticed the flicker on two of my mates sky texts etc so might be something to do with SKY.
    The DVD is connected to the DVD scart on the TV with a JVC
    J122 SCART LEAD. I have set the DVD to RGB. I have no idea about S-video so any info would be helpful. RGB is preferable for picture quality?
    SG, could you put your settings for the tv on the forum it would be helpful, thanks.
    The sky digibox has the analogue aerial connected to it and an ordinary tv cable connecting it to the video. There is another J122 scart connecting it to the other scart on the tv(can't remember what it is called!)
    The video is connected to the vcr scart on the tv with a run of the mill scart lead. It is an old VCR and only has one scart so that is the reason for the ordinary connection lead being used between it and the digibox.
    Maybe i have it configured all wrong, I have no idea what DNR is sorry.
    I am not at home at the moment so I can't change anything at the moment. What scart leads would you guys recommend and where is a good place to purchase.
    Thanks once again for the info
     
  5. Squirrel God

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    Yes, RGB is definitely preferable (it keeps the red, green and blue signals separate for enhanced clarity and reduced 'interference').

    Sure. Sony haven't used numbers though so I'll have to improvise - if it's unclear, just let me know :)

    Picture Adjustment
    Mode: Personal
    Contrast: 3 notches down from the right.
    Brightness: The same as brightness on the Live preset.
    Colour: 2 notches up from brightness.
    Sharpness: The same as the Live preset.

    Note that you won't be able to directly adjust sharpness for RGB sources - so you'll have to use this little trick to adjust it. Basically, switch to a non RGB source, then change the sharpness and then switch back to your RGB source ;)

    Detail Set up
    (you'll find this under the set up menu which is the last icon in the menu list)

    I would advise you to turn OFF the Noise Reduction when using the VCR as I found it made the picture too soft. Noise Reduction on AUTO works well for the internal analogue tuner however and also for RGB sources (I think the TV automatically disables it for RGB sources anyway).

    DNR is digital noise reduction (it's labelled as Noise Reduction in the menus). You can experiment by turning it off for your Sky digibox and your DVD and see if that makes a difference. You have to use the same trick as with the sharpness however, as the option will be dimmed and unadjustable on RGB sources.

    Looking at the Curry's web site, the JVC J122 that you are using appears to be a basic scart lead. I use Ixos 126AV cables (Home Entertainment Editor's Choice). I bought mine from http://www.hifibitz.co.uk/ but there are other sites you can buy from (which may be cheaper, based on other postings I have read here). You can go for a different brand of course - just make sure it has at least the spec detailed in my first post. :)

    Let us know how you get on :)
     
  6. dvdforum

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    Thought I'd let you know how I got on.
    Used your settings SG and there was an improvement in picture quality especially on the DVD. Both DVD and SKY are set to RGB and the scarts receiving their input are also on RGB.
    That flicker on SKY text and BBC interactive is still as bad though.
    Rang SKYand as always they were useless, told me that the digibox was out of warranty and i would have to pay for an engineer if I wanted one. Don't rate them so decided to decline. Not sure if there is anything wrong with the box. Contacted dixons who told me to reset the hz, obviously they are highly skilled!
    The football is still not perfect but that could be because of the feed from Asia, I live in Ireland and RTE are using the same source as ITV and BBC. The BBC is particularly flickery.
    Don't want to change the TV as we bought it at a great price.
    Plan to get those Ixos scarts and see if they make a difference. Sky technical staff told me they were a waste of money but everyone else raves about them.
    Went in to the Sony centre in Dublin and after two muppets finally found someone who seemed to know what they were talking about. This guy told me that there would always be a shadow around the players and the ball on the 32ls60 but this would be worse due to the broadcast from Asia. Told me that NtL broadcast at 100hz and that he thought that Sky did likewise. However, Sky told me they broadcast at 5ohz and that there is always a flicker on thei text and that the 100hz tv would make this worse.
    Still a bit confused and Sky sports news looks rubbish on the tv. I am going to watch some Gaelic football on RTE this evening to see if there flicker like the broadcast from Asia.
    Sg, could you post the setting for contrast on the LIVE setting as i moved it and when it resets it is not to the original.
    Any further tips from you guys would be greatly appreciated
     
  7. Squirrel God

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    Pleased to hear it :)
    Lol!!! :D
    It is because of the feed. When looking at these things you can *never* ignore the quality of the original broadcast as a contributing factor.
    I can't believe Sky staff told you this :eek:
    I think you'll find it probably does reset to the original... Believe it or not, the original LIVE setting is for contrast to be set to maximum! Too bright for my eyes ;)
     
  8. dvdforum

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    Thanks once again for the help guys.
    You both seem to know what you are talking about so if you don't mind could I bother you for some more advice in relation to amps and speakers. Have done a fair bit of research and to be honest my head is wrecked.Happy enough with the DVD player, might upgrade later but it is ok for the moment.
    Interested in getting a surround sound system up and running and don't know where to start. Have decided not to go down the road of the all in one due to the lack of RGB and the fact that it is difficult to upgrade. Am a correct in stating that no AIO has RGB?
    The room where the TV is peculiarly set up, due to the fact that the TV is in one of the far corners. All magazines have set up a system but none have the TV in a corner we havve to have the tv in the corner or it would be too close to the fireplace or radiators. Will this cause problems?
    The plan is to purchase a set of speakers and an AV reciever. Budget is around 850 euro(around £550 sterling) and extra for cabling. Would like to be able to experience dts. To be honest don't know where to start Mission cinema 7 sound like decent speakers and Denon and Marantz seem to have decent amps.
    All input is appreciated
    cheers
     
  9. kelvin

    kelvin
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    Philips' new(ish) "DAV Style" Unit (the LX3000 I think) has RGB Scart Output (first of a kind!!) - as does the more highly powered LX8000 (again - I think!!). If you do choose to go down the DAV type route they might be worth considering for picture quality alone. No real substitute for seperates mind you.... ;)

    Kelvin :D
     
  10. Squirrel God

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    I'm not up on home cinema amps and speakers because I don't own any :rolleyes: so I can't advise you there I'm afraid. But I think you'd probably get more of a response if you posted in the "Amplifiers and Receivers" forum, rather than here ;)

    Incidentally, I've been experimenting with the sharpness on my LS60 and am now using a setting of 15 (i.e. 15 notches up from the left). Even though Sony recommend the Live setting for watching digital sources, I think that the sharpness setting on there is too high, resulting in an "overly sharp" image (more noticeable close up). The images from my DVD and my Pace box now seem even better now I've reduced it. You might want to experiment a bit more yourself to get it 'just right' for your equipment. :)
     

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