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Picture of Sonys Black Screen in action (we'll all be able to see the sun again!)

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by pez, Jul 9, 2004.

  1. pez

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  2. ReTrO

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    I believe that it works by reflecting only polarised light from each of the red, green and blue wavelengths produced by LCD projectors.

    Sharp have previously had a similar screen a few years ago but the cost made it prohibitive to mass manufacture.
     
  3. AMc

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    Does the polarisation mean it won't work with DLP?
    Just bought a DLP projector and I would hold my horses buying a proper screen for for good daylight performance!
     
  4. ReTrO

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    If it is a polarising type screen I guess it wouldn't work with DLP. Wait and see if anyone else has more info I think.
     
  5. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    The Stewart Firehawk did a very similar job in a demo I saw recently - a split screen with matt white one side and the FH the other. The white side looked more washed out than the image above, but the FH side looked very detailed and watchable - and this was in a room with plenty of ambient light coming in from the windows, and all the room lights on. Very impressive, plus it works with all projectors.

    It'll be interesting to compare the two products to see how the new Sony screen compares.

    Gary.
     
  6. ReTrO

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    Gary, you get the same effect with the Vutec SilverStar, though probably to a greater extent due to the higher gain. I'm due some samples of the SilverStar in over the next couple weeks if anyone wants some to compare.
     
  7. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Hi Rich,

    Yeah, I've heard that high gain screens can also work quite well with ambient light, but how do they fair with the grey screens with regards to black level, contrast and the neutral reflectivity re colour casting from reflections?

    I still think a grey screen works best overall in ambient light conditions, especialy after seeing the Firehawk - the black level (and apparent contrast) is only as good as the amount of light reflecting off the screen, so a grey screen will always win with regards to that IMHO as it will always be darker to start with.

    Unfortunately I don't have a grey screen (just a 1.2 white), but I'd be interested in a sample of the material if that's possible?

    Gary.
     
  8. ReTrO

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    The SilverStar will go as dark as you allow it in terms of black level. Contrast is far improves over a 1.0 or 1.3 gain white screen. We were running a 1.3 v the 6.0 at CEDIA again this year and it was very noticable to difference. This was running with no true blackout conditions and fair ambient light levels.

    I am due the SilverStar soon and if you want to email or PM me your addy I can get a bit sent out along with a grey sample.
     
  9. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Surely that's only as dark as the room conditions allow? A darker (greyer) screen will always be darker in comparison (under the same conditions) won't it?

    I'll PM you now - many thanks. :)

    Gary.
     
  10. Goose74

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  11. brain

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    im new to projectors and screens but that does sound like a good product! i want one now not in 2005! i would like to see one for real though.
     
  12. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    With some luck it'll be at CEDIA USA in Sept. I'll go check it out......

    Gordon
     
  13. Kramer

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    Threads merged.
     
  14. vulkan75

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  15. Gary Lightfoot

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    Interesting review. I have to say that when I saw the Firehawk, the whites looked white, and never grey, though you could see a difference between the matt white and FH as they were a half and half split screen. Otherwise, you'll never know it's grey.

    Higher gain often looks better at first glance because it's brighter, but can be at the detriment of other factors in the image, such as black level, and revealing artefacts in the image. You should idealy aim for between 12 and 16ft lamberts of reflected light so that you're seeing only what is intended. If you're getting less than those figures, then you should consider a higher gain screen IMHO.

    I've got the screen samples Richard sent me, so hopefully I'll be able to see the Silver Star in action myself.. :)

    Gary.
     
  16. vulkan75

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    I'm in the process hunting for an upgrade..presently owning a draper baronet I was thinking of moving over to an owl(106")motorised screen.

    This little thread has thrown a spanner in the works though :rolleyes: .

    This contrast issue is a big thing for me at the mo and I dont realy know if I will be completely be happy with the owl. :confused:

    Any idea's as to a possible compromise between my budget of £800 and the above mentioned technologys.

    p.s Fixed screen is not an option...and I will be using a hs10. :)
     
  17. Stinja

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    Hmmm, no-one's updated this (IMO) important thread. After playing about with my own screen i really had to check to see where Sony's Black-Screen tech was at.

    Anyway all i could find was this as the latest news: http://www.stargeek.com/item/257874.html

    So good news its next summer, bad news is US$2000. I'm really hoping rip-off Britian isnt going to make this £2000, as i could probably justify the former. Of course the other concern is being new tech one hopes things like ripples and build-quality is top-notch...
     
  18. kballs

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    These really look promising. Even at $2k, you could combine it with a $2k projector and get better ambient light performance than a $15k projector by itself. :cool:
     
  19. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    I wrote a report of CEDIA and it was posted on this forum. The screen has issues.....if you sit remotely off at an angle you lose all its benefits. Even on axis it obviously hot spots. It has its purpose but if you want best image quality then it's not a go-er yet.

    Gordon
     
  20. kballs

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    It's good to hear a first-hand account since there is so little information yet. Now that you mention it, that shot on gizmodo does show a hot-spot (I just thought the guy sitting at the desk was under a light in the scene).

    I wonder if they will work on diffusing the light at all, it sounds like it's a bit mirror-like (too directly reflective) to the R/G/B colors. I find rear-projection TVs have bad hot-spot/bad off-axis viewing as well but more of a banded horizontal hot-spot than a circular hot-spot, so as long as your height is correct you are okay, this screen would look bad pretty much from any position.

    There is another competing product here:
    http://www.iceav.co.nz/product.asp?ProductID=31
    They claim to not have any hot-spotting, but all they've got is a 48" unit for quite a high cost. It would be interesting to actually see it. Again, very little information so we're left to speculate.
     
  21. Darwock

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    Looks good but I'm not gonna get excited. Even if it happens it's going to cost a fortune, plus it's unlikely to be available in a suitable size for my set up.
     
  22. kballs

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    Sony showed their 80" model at CES 2005. It is supposed to go on sale in April/May for $1999 msrp.

    http://gear.ign.com/articles/578/578385p1.html

    First hand account from slashdot:
    Sony black projector screen. (Score:2)
    by JVert (578547) <corganbilly.hotmail@com> on Sunday January 09, @08:53PM (#11307003)
    (Last Journal: Friday October 29, @12:33AM)

    I saw the sony black screen. Finally made sense when I saw it and crushed my heart with its limitations. Its got a $2,000 price tag and is not due out untill summer. Now that I see it I picture a very reflective material on the back and filtered layers in between blocking any colors but the red/green/blue. However the problem is there is are brighter/darker regions depending on where you stand. Not sure if thats the reflection of the display or lighting of the room (which was not terribly bright). Its not that bad but worse then any rear projector displays I saw at the show so there is no reason to blow $2k on a system that replaces one problem with another.


    This is consistent with what Gordon saw. They fixed the ambient light performance but now have a hotspot/reflectivity problem (like using a shiny whiteboard to project on). :thumbsdow
     
  23. Misty

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    Hi, stumbled on this thread & thought I should add to it. Used to work for one of the UK's best Bespoke Home Cinema installers and chanced upon an interesting cheap screen alternative whilst testing a Dila based projector. I was setting the Projector up in our main cinema room whilst another team were preping a B&O Multi Disc CD player. They had unpacked the aluminum bracket for the B&O kit as I was warming up the projector to keystone on our Stewart 10 foot static screen, you can only imagine my surprise as the projected image from the Dila hit the aluminum bracket and gave a far superior image than a £4000 + Stewart screen. Bright image with great contrast. This makes me wonder, if you were to have fabricated a polished piece of aluminum sheet as a static screen would this have the same effect you guys are talking about?

    Any thoughts?
     
  24. Gary Lightfoot

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    I would think something as highly polished as aluminium would hotspot quite a bit. You only saw a small area area so you wouldn't get the overall effect.

    Gary.
     
  25. Stinja

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    Argh im crushed. Hopefully, and one assumes, Sony are working on a mark 2 model.

    In fact i think it would have been better to keep the slight ambient light probs rather than hot-spotting (or split the project into two), as least the former would still appeal to the home market which had dim, but not complete darkness, setups. If you got good performance, but could have a light on, it would be quite a coup. Making something, for busnesses presentations say, to use in any light is always going to be more difficult.
     
  26. keyser

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    Gordon, have you seen the dnp supernova screen or will you be going to any show soon that will have it?

    www.dnp.dk ... from those that have seen, this screen is better than the Sony (and even the upcoming Stewart blackscreen) and it´s available in 120". Supposedly it doesn´t hotspot.
     

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