Picture breaking up on BBC1 & 2 Others fine.

Discussion in 'General TV Discussions Forum' started by AJW1100, Nov 5, 2018.

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  1. AJW1100

    AJW1100
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    Hi.
    Picture breaking up on BBC1 & 2. Commercial channels are perfect.
    For the last few weeks we have been suffering dropouts and chopped audio on TV channels BBC1 & BBC2. All commercial channels are fine. The dropouts are totally random, sometimes just the odd breakup, other times no signal at all, select ITV and perfect signal. We have two TV's and both suffer the same problem, we have tried re-tuning both in case they both were out of tune but of course they were fine and it made no difference.
    We have a High Gain aerial with some sort of box attached to the chimney and in our loft a signal booster 'Vision' tm. I checked when it was all installed and it was 2007 so 11 years old. I am thinking that maybe either it is failing, or it's the box on the chimney. If its the one on the chimney I will need to get someone in to sort it, if it's the Vision booster I can get one on Amazon for a lot less than a call out!

    Any suggestions appreciated or a way to check the Vision Booster ?
     
  2. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
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    Need to know which transmitter you get your signals from.

    Digital UK | About the coverage checker

    Tick the detailed view and post the transmitter name and the colour each Mux is in table

    Your TV should have a menu option to show signal strength and quality for the currently tuned channel.
     
  3. mike7

    mike7
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    Aerial signal amplifiers usually consist of two parts. The box mounted close to the aerial itself is the actual amplifier and the second box, which can be in the loft or mounted in a box adjacent to the TV sends a DC power supply up the aerial wire to enable the amplifier to work. Is the box in your loft connected to the mains? A picture might help. Agree with Graham that you need to verify where your signal is coming from & its strength. Re-tuning in these circumstances is not always a good idea.
     
  4. EndlessWaves

    EndlessWaves
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    They are shifting the frequencies on vary transmitters at the moment (in the years leading up to 2020) so it may be that your local transmitter was changed a few weeks ago. As Graham says, which transmitter or repeater you're receiving from is relevant information.

    Also, can you be more specific as to which channels are you talking about? There are two different versions of BBC1, BBC2 and ITV - the Nation HD versions and the SD versions with local content (regional news etc.)

    The SD versions typically have ITV and BBC being broadcast on different frequencies, while the HD ones are typically broadcast together. So if you're getting issues with the HD channels it may not be a reception problem at all.
     
  5. AJW1100

    AJW1100
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    TV Reception.JPG
    Thanks for your replies, I hope the above is what you are asking for.

    One TV is HD ready the other is HD but I think it is only ever in SD mode.

    Signal strength as shown on the TV's system information on the screen.
    I guess this will mean something to you:
    BBC1
    Software version 2.12.208
    Starter 0.15.10
    Level around 60% of bar 'Good'
    PreViterbi: 4.83 e2
    PostViterbi: 1.24 e4
    UEC:0
    Codfdm AGC 240

    ITV
    SW & Starter as above
    Signal 100% full bar 'High'
    PreViterbi: 1.86 e3
    PostViterbi: 0

    Yes, the Vision box is connected to the mains and is one of these:
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vision-V23...d=1541448469&sr=8-3&keywords=vision+amplifier

    The output from this is connected to a splitter giving feeds to one TV very close and the other via unknown route down to the TV in the living room.
    There was another TV connected on the same system until about a year ago but has not been connected since then (User now in care) and this set up has worked without problems will all 3 since 2007 to 2017.

    I will have to check the signal strength next time it plays up.
     
  6. AJW1100

    AJW1100
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    Just played through 40 minutes of a program recorded from Channel 4 in September, program stopped as 'No Service' it was a 1 hour program but on the recordings properties it shows as recorded for 1Hour 40 Minutes. I guess it's not only BBC1 & 2 then.
     
  7. EndlessWaves

    EndlessWaves
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    It'd be unusual to have SD/HD modes, usually the HD and SD channels are just assigned to different channel numbers. So for example BBC One Regional SD is usually #1, while BBC One HD is usually #101.

    It's worth swapping to the BBC One or BBC Two HD channels on your HD TV the next time you have an issue and see if they're running fine.
     
  8. AJW1100

    AJW1100
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    Good suggestion. On our downstairs HD set both channels 1 & 101 were fine, the set upstairs reports channel 101 is not available so seems not HD, only SD.

    Of course my post should have said:
    One TV is SD the other is HD but I think it is only ever in SD mode. Sorry for the confusion.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
  9. mike7

    mike7
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    There was a time when some sets were sold as 'HD Ready' but they were usually only 720p screens and had a SD only tuner. It was a confusing time. Conversely I had a 720p Panasonic which actually had a HD tuner.

    As I suspected the 'Vision booster' is simply a power supply for the aerial mounted amp.
     
  10. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
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    A bit misleading, the only 720P (1280 x 720) screens were found on plasma displays (Guessing your Panny is a Plasma TV. Most HD ready TV were 1368 wide but were capable of displaying a 1080i source. They also had HD tuners but only DVB-T capable. The UK HD Freeview -HD broadcasts require DVB-T2. You can for instance use a Digital modulator to create a 1920 x 1080 DVB-T tunable by by pretty well all HD Ready TV's
     
  11. mike7

    mike7
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    I was slightly incorrect. The screen was 1366x768 which was close to the minimum standard for HD Ready which was, as you say 720p. It was a 24" LED/LCD model and it had a DVB-T2 tuner as it would tune in Freeview HD channels as well as SD ones. It was certainly not capable of showing a full 1080p or i picture but it would accept the signal. I always felt the HD tuner was a bit superfluous on a screen that size at the time, but I guess they were just phasing them in. I can't remember the exact model but it may have been this one.

    TX-24D302B Televisions - Panasonic UK & Ireland
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
  12. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
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    Modern sets have the HD READY- 1080P label

    This ensures the set has a full 1920 x 1080 display

    It has DVB-T2 capability

    And it will synch with 24Hz, 48Hz 29.97 Hz 2 x29.97 50Hz and 60Hz so suitable for correct playback of Blu-ray content without using drop frame.
     
  13. EndlessWaves

    EndlessWaves
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    Digital Europe wound up the HD/HD Ready/etc. logo program at the end of March this year, so don't expect to see those logos on any future models.

    Also, any new Freeview equipment brought to market since the start of 2017 has to support HD, SD-only devices can no longer carry freeview branding.
     
  14. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
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    Somebody should update the Wiki :)

    HD ready - Wikipedia
     
  15. spinaltap

    spinaltap
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  16. AJW1100

    AJW1100
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    Getting back on topic, :) :thumbsup: thanks for that link, unfortunately this problem has been with us for some time, as said above a recording in September suddenly lost signal. Some channels, usually BBC1 & 2 just breakup or stop at random times and has been getting worse over the last month or so. One day perfect the next problems.
     
  17. AJW1100

    AJW1100
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    This morning switched on BB1 SD got a 'still' shot for less than a second then the message "No Signal, check connections" etc etc. Tapped in 101 and that was fine, tried BBC2 SD scrambled picture and chopped sound.
    Eventually found the Samsung setup option to check the Signal, Signal strength on 1 & 2 SD was around 60~70% signal quality varied tremendously going from 22 to a rare 65, the numbers never stayed constant. I then went up the channel listing with about 15 channels, ITV1 had strength 94% and quality 100%, most of these channels had scores of 80~100% and were pretty much constant.
    If it was the Vision power unit failing it would affect all channels so I can only assume it is the Signal Amp/Booster on the Aerial cable on the chimney.
     
  18. EndlessWaves

    EndlessWaves
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    The BBCA multiplex is towards the lower end of the frequency range so if you ended up with a wideband aerial being installed in 2007 they often struggle to pick up the low end.

    What about Pick and Dave? They're on the ArqA multiplex which is slightly lower in frequency than BBC SD so do they break up too?

    Have you got out the binoculars and inspected the aerial for any damage? If any bits have dropped off or become wonky that'll affect reception.

    It does seem likely to be reception-related somehow. Whether it's a signal strength issue where you are (e.g. reflection off a new building) or something faulty in your setup is harder to guess.
     
  19. AJW1100

    AJW1100
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    Thank you for your post, I did some TV signal checking this morning and found the following:
    BBC1
    Strength around 66
    Quality 0~21 (although seemed okay with no breakups this morning)
    Bit error level 690~2000
    MPX 8800(tsID 1044, ONID 233a)

    Pick
    S around 90
    Q 24~50

    Dave
    S around 90
    Q 15~29

    I noted that some of the channels were stated as Cambs & Beds ID3020 most had Strength as around 50 and Quality stable on 50.

    Most channels gave the bit error as 0~4

    Our aerial is a large high gain, no lost or wobbly elements I could see with my bins.

    The TV is about 2 years old, the aerial over 10 I would guess. There are no new buildings and we live on a ridge with views for miles and we've lived here for 30years.
     
  20. EndlessWaves

    EndlessWaves
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    'high gain' is one of those slippery marketing terms just means it picks up a better signal than some other aerial. A lot of aerials fitted around 2007 in the Crystal Palace region would have been high gain wideband aerials replacing normal Group A aerials. However, High gain widebands typically don't have any better gain in the group A frequencies than normal aerials. They're only high gain compared to other wideband aerials, which are weaker than equivalent grouped aerials designed for a narrower frequency range.

    It doesn't sound like an aerial problem though if a very similar frequency is working fine and there's no sign of damage.

    Any work on the house, or any new electrical devices at around the time the issue started? It could be some sort of interference from inside the house, it might be worth turning everything off when you're having issues just to verify.

    I'm not an expert so I don't know how boosters typically fail, whether this is a common symptom or not.
     
  21. AJW1100

    AJW1100
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    Thank you for the information on the aerial, a small of advertising hype I suspect!
    There is nothing that springs to mind that has altered within our house or outside for that matter, we are planning to move in January so unless I find something it may have to stay a mystery.
     
  22. spinaltap

    spinaltap
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    E5A6813B-11B4-4C70-9EDC-338CA2CD9ADF.jpeg
     

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