Picard Season 2

brian s

Distinguished Member
Ah, that was a different situation and comparison as TNG were all different stories. Some good some bad, but this was just 1 long one which wasn't particularly gripping.
I've just started watching thanks to a free Prime trial. I've managed the first two episodes but it is a bit of a trial so far. It's not grabbing me. I'm not exactly a fan of the one story per season format and would welcome a return to the one part stories for US tv. As you say ST TNG was a mix of good and bad. Definitely better than one long dull run.

Bri
 

Coulson

Distinguished Member
If I recall correctly it's been picked up for a 3rd as well.
Please note that "almost" every time you read in the trades about a new Star Trek series or film being produced, it is FUD. You are not the audience at least not directly. The purpose is to drum up interest to attract potential investors. It's why they can't make Star Trek 4. It's why they are struggling to finish Discovery season 3*. Amazon is apparently trying to get out of their contract for a second series, Netflix said no.

@Buckster666 @Clem_Dye the creatives have left, and a new team will be in place for season 2, and alongside the management changes with CBS and Viacom re-merging, it’s worth at least seeing if there is a different approach going forwards.
Errrm no. It's still under the Bad Robot production company because "contracts". Sherry Redstone has taken over and is presiding over the merger. The good news is that she considers Star Trek her crown jewel. Unfortunately Star Trek through no fault of hers is not doing well.

Star Trek Discovery (which I actually like) is not doing well. Star Trek fans hate it with a passion and I get why, even though I quite like it. Picard as I mentioned above has issues and Lower decks has exactly zero distributors, not Netflix, not Amazon, not anyone.

I hear that CBS is trying to find a way to remove Bad Robot but the way the contract is structured means that even if CBS try to make Star Trek without them, Bad Robot still gets paid so the best they can hope for is arbitration.

*I like Star Trek Discovery, for all it's faults (and it has many) and I would have been interested in seeing how they proceeded.
 
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Coulson

Distinguished Member
I've just started watching thanks to a free Prime trial. I've managed the first two episodes but it is a bit of a trial so far. It's not grabbing me.
This is Captain Jean Luc Picard:



This is sabotage of a great fictional character and of a great sci-fi series:



OK no more I promise :)
 
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zantarous

Distinguished Member
Star Trek Discovery (which I actually like) is not doing well. Star Trek fans hate it with a passion and I get why, even though I quite like it. Picard as I mentioned above has issues and Lower decks has exactly zero distributors, not Netflix, not Amazon, not anyone.
This is fud that has been doing the rounds for ages none of it has ever been substanted. It's all YouTubers with click bate stories.

The only Star Trek fan you can talk on behalf of is yourself, I have been a Trek fan all my life and enjoy DIS. There are Trek fans out there that will tell you they hate DS9, VOY, ENT or even TNG. The only real gauge we have of how well Trek is doing is through CBSAA quarterly earnings reports which show the shoes are bringing in new customers.
 

Coulson

Distinguished Member
This is fud that has been doing the rounds for ages none of it has ever been substanted. It's all YouTubers with click bate stories.
You are correct, this is of course mostly rumour. The reason I'm relatively confident is that on almost every occasion I can remember, the insider sources I have listened to have proven to be prescient. It is rarely possible to be 100% accurate in the details, but the overall point is usually correct.

The only Star Trek fan you can talk on behalf of is yourself, I have been a Trek fan all my life and enjoy DIS.
I wouldn't consider myself a Star Trek "fan", just a fan of the show. Like Star Wars it is the issues surrounding it that are interesting to me. Saying that, I now have fan restorations of the original Star Wars trilogy based on the original prints. So who knows? I may end up with Kirk's phaser, or Janeway's coffee mug ;)

...I have been a Trek fan all my life and enjoy DIS.
As I said, even though I dislike certain elements of Disco, I did enjoy it overall. So even though I understand the sentiment, I do think that some commenters are being a little harsh.

There are Trek fans out there that will tell you they hate DS9, VOY, ENT or even TNG.
Many Star Trek "fans" say that Star Trek's current iteration simply isn't Star Trek and point to The Orville instead. I've never heard any fan say that about DS9, Voyager, Enterprise and especially not Next Gen even if they dislike the show itself.

The only real gauge we have of how well Trek is doing is through CBSAA quarterly earnings reports which show the shoes are bringing in new customers.
How many? I only ask because not only is it being rebranded but they are launching other related services which will either fold into or take over the existing streaming service.

BTW, I can think of one mainstream reporter who is on the side of the entertainment industry in general, and in particular its current direction. But she does try to be fair and will report many of these "Click Bait" rumours when she is sure. Her sources are solid so she does tend to get even the details correct. On multiple occasions she has been absolutely slaughtered on Twitter and forums, then 3 to 6 months later, the trades are reporting the same things. The trades also hear these rumours but their level of proof is higher. Plus it is not in their interest to report rumour against their own vested interests.

I hope this clears up where I am coming from here. I place a different point of view based on information sources which over the past year or so have proven themselves to be pretty accurate. I wouldn't put them here otherwise.

So let's just agree to disagree and wait for events to unfold.
 
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scrowe

Well-known Member
Errrm no. It's still under the Bad Robot production company because "contracts". Sherry Redstone has taken over and is presiding over the merger. The good news is that she considers Star Trek her crown jewel. Unfortunately Star Trek through no fault of hers is not doing well.
*I like Star Trek Discovery, for all it's faults (and it has many) and I would have been interested in seeing how they proceeded.
I said 'Creatives' meaning the people who have the ideas and vision on what story to tell, and how to deliver it. As far as I know Akiva Goldsman is not directly involved, he is apparently doing 'Strange New Worlds' and 'Michael Chabon' has definitely left. I don't think new Showrunners have been announced. Yes, Bad Robot are still the outsourced Production Company, and their track record has not been great, but you never know.

But, later rumours than you allude to claim further Start Trek series productions have at least been put on hold if not cancelled (apart from Strange New Worlds, probably because it isn't near production yet, so time to retool it), and indeed control is being taken away from Bad Robot, subject to working out a way of exiting the contract.
 

Coulson

Distinguished Member
I said 'Creatives' meaning the people who have the ideas and vision on what story to tell, and how to deliver it. As far as I know Akiva Goldsman is not directly involved, he is apparently doing 'Strange New Worlds' and 'Michael Chabon' has definitely left. I don't think new Showrunners have been announced. Yes, Bad Robot are still the outsourced Production Company, and their track record has not been great, but you never know.
It sounds like we're hearing similar things. I liked the first two Trek films but some people really hate the second one. The third one was ok. Disco is problematic but still enjoyable. So I have no axe to grind with BR but they do seem to be the problem. Trek is not doing well.
..and indeed control is being taken away from Bad Robot, subject to working out a way of exiting the contract.
Apparently the parent company have brought in a fixer to get this done. She's said to be well known and widely respected so we'll see what happens. If she somehow gets this from BR without too much pain then her reputation will be well deserved. But in the end, unless they find a way to twist BR's arm, I can't see any other option than arbitration.
 
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scrowe

Well-known Member
It sounds like we're hearing similar things. I liked the first two Trek films but some people really hate the second one. The third one was ok. Disco is problematic but still enjoyable. So I have no axe to grind with BR but they do seem to be the problem. Trek is not doing well.

Apparently the parent company have brought in a fixer to get this done. She's said to be well known and widely respected so we'll see what happens. If she somehow gets this from BR without too much pain then her reputation will be well deserved. But in the end, unless they find a way to twist BR's arm, I can't see any other option than arbitration.
From a business point of view, Bad Robot (and Secret Hideout stealth offshoot) were chosen for the Movie and TV revamps because they have ‘form’ in retooling old properties and/or making Film and TV fir a ‘general’ audience. I call it ‘fast-food’ Trek, that has been at best ‘ok’to ‘barely tolerable’. A high-budget Star Trek movie tailored to the hardcore fans will simply lose money, but the general audience won’t embrace anything but high-budget for a modern tent pole Sci-Fi fantasy movie. They then made the same mistake with TV , trying to change Trek for an audience-grab thinking they were just modernising it (rather than disrespecting it) , but they then ended up again throwing too much money at it, and now trying to MCU-it without earning it.

Trek is a TV property, films then need to be earned, and a worldwide audience isn’t really there in Film to justify it. The box-office for the recent movies show that. Albeit they had a chance following 2009, with a decent cast and an audience that were maybe willing, but they blew it by taking too long to make a poor sequel, and then messing up the 3rd as well with studio dithering, albeit allegedly they couldn’t get the financing for the original 3rd film and had to rush an alternate script. 4th film also could not get the money to make it worth doing.
 

Coulson

Distinguished Member
From a business point of view, Bad Robot (and Secret Hideout stealth offshoot) were chosen for the Movie and TV revamps because they have ‘form’ in retooling old properties and/or making Film and TV fir a ‘general’ audience. I call it ‘fast-food’ Trek, that has been at best ‘ok’to ‘barely tolerable’. A high-budget Star Trek movie tailored to the hardcore fans will simply lose money, but the general audience won’t embrace anything but high-budget for a modern tent pole Sci-Fi fantasy movie. They then made the same mistake with TV , trying to change Trek for an audience-grab thinking they were just modernising it (rather than disrespecting it) , but they then ended up again throwing too much money at it, and now trying to MCU-it without earning it.
It's interesting how our point of views diverge based on personal taste but then converge based on principle. It gives lie to the popular notion of a monolithic and toxic fandom. We are as diverse as we are varied but united on the principles of respect and not using the cover of "deconstruction" to push particular agendas.
 

zantarous

Distinguished Member
Many Star Trek "fans" say that Star Trek's current iteration simply isn't Star Trek and point to The Orville instead. I've never heard any fan say that about DS9, Voyager, Enterprise and especially not Next Gen even if they dislike the show itself.
You have never heard any fan say that about those shows? I find that hard to believe from someone who seems to have so much knowledge on the fandom? The backlash against DS9 was immense at the time, the VOY is still refereed to as TNG light. ENT has the smallest fanbase of the lot but over the years as people actually watched these shows they start to enjoy them.

Trek will always evolve, I find it mind boggling that a show that is supposed to be about people being open minded, open to change and embracing new ideas has a small minority that moan that they want things to stay the same and never change. You have over 700 episode of the old Trek, staying the same killed the franchise.

How many? I only ask because not only is it being rebranded but they are launching other related services which will either fold into or take over the existing streaming service.
All publically traded companies openly report their numbers and you can read all of there here cbs quarterly report - Google Search

BTW, I can think of one mainstream reporter who is on the side of the entertainment industry in general, and in particular its current direction. But she does try to be fair and will report many of these "Click Bait" rumours when she is sure. Her sources are solid so she does tend to get even the details correct. On multiple occasions she has been absolutely slaughtered on Twitter and forums, then 3 to 6 months later, the trades are reporting the same things. The trades also hear these rumours but their level of proof is higher. Plus it is not in their interest to report rumour against their own vested interests.
Sorry why not just name the blogger you are referring to? What have they reported then that has come true? All of these is really rather vague.
 

Coulson

Distinguished Member
You have never heard any fan say that about those shows?
Nope

Trek will always evolve, I find it mind boggling that a show that is supposed to be about people being open minded, open to change and embracing new ideas has a small minority that moan that they want things to stay the same and never change. You have over 700 episode of the old Trek, staying the same killed the franchise.
As you said the figures will speak for themselves.

All publically traded companies openly report their numbers and you can read all of there here cbs quarterly report - Google Search
Not viewing figures.

Sorry why not just name the blogger you are referring to? What have they reported then that has come true? All of these is really rather vague.
Grace Randolph

So let's just agree to disagree and wait for events to unfold.
I don't think we need to go any further as it's now getting rather specific. I think we're done here.
 

VisionMan

Distinguished Member
I wouldn't consider myself a Star Trek "fan", just a fan of the show. Like Star Wars it is the issues surrounding it that are interesting to me.
So you like being a keyboard rumor mongerer about Star Trek and Star Wars? Thats interesting...
 

Coulson

Distinguished Member
*deleted*
 

Coulson

Distinguished Member
So you like being a keyboard rumor mongerer about Star Trek and Star Wars? Thats interesting...
It is not rumour that Star Trek is in serious trouble. But anyway...
...The reason I'm relatively confident is that on almost every occasion I can remember, the insider sources I have listened to have proven to be prescient. It is rarely possible to be 100% accurate in the details, but the overall point is usually correct.
....
So let's just agree to disagree and wait for events to unfold.
 

tapzilla2k

Distinguished Member
I've heard various rumours about Star Trek being in trouble or that ViacomCBS needs to sell star trek to balance the books but can't because of the contract with Bad Robot and the terrible run of shows lessening the value of the property (which if that is the case ? Disney will probably snap it up). I think there might some truth to some of the rumours but quite honestly a lot of it stems from fans who simply do not like the direction Star Trek has taken in recent years. I enjoyed Picard for what it is - Sir Patrick Stewart doing something different with the character and not rehashing TNG.

As for ratings ? The days of ratings dominating everything are over, online streaming is where it's at and what companies outside of the US marketplace are willing to pay for ViacomCBS shows and films. That's where the money is.
 

Klippie

Member
They should pull the plug on Picard or hire a new creative team for series two, series one was woefully slow they had enough material to make two or three good episodes but dragged it out over ten...it was getting unbearable towards the end.

More of the same for series two...thanks but no.
 

brian s

Distinguished Member
They should pull the plug on Picard or hire a new creative team for series two, series one was woefully slow they had enough material to make two or three good episodes but dragged it out over ten...it was getting unbearable towards the end.

More of the same for series two...thanks but no.
Most US tv is like that now. One story a season. A potentially good story dragged out way too long and full of filler material.

Bri
 

VisionMan

Distinguished Member
I'm dreading season 2 as the first series was awful. Just one long drawn out dredge,,,,
 

krish

Distinguished Member
I'm not dreading it, not sure why you are, since you repeatedly post about ditching the show. Why not let it go, rather that continuously posting negatively about the show in its S2 thread. I'm guessing you secretly haven't really ditched it, like richp007 with TWD :D.

Enjoyed S1 immensely, already rewatched it once
- so it does have rewatch value! ;)

The pace was just right. Not sure what others mean by slow, but if Picard was slow, then classics I love, like The Sopranos and The Wire, were in coma.
 

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