Phillip Hoffman

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Broko, Feb 6, 2014.

  1. Broko

    Broko
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    Druggy who killed himself or tortured soul?

    Most people will say the typical druggy who breaks into you're house and steals your XBox to sell for £5 for a wrap of smack deserve to die of an overdose. I have said before flood the market with pure heroin and wipe out most of them.
    I have had motorcycles stolen and have said it would make me feel better if whoever had stolen it (and trashed it) if they had died on it. No doubt a lot of us will be saying the scum deserve it.
    What changes is if you are personally affected by it.
    I have had relatives who have drunk themselves to death. I worked with someone whos son was struggling with drugs and had an ex next door neighbour, whos son died due to drug abuse. They found him on the kitchen floor and his insides had dropped out his arse.
    They would have a different view on it than others not affected.

    But I have just buried a very good friend who saved my life, I was a pallbearer. He was 50 and as fit as a fiddle. Not an ounce of fat. We drove all over europe together on bikes. Yet he dies of a virus that affected his heart and brain. He leaves a wife and 2 sons.
    He never took heroin, he never robbed anyone, he never did wrong to anybody. Hoffman took drugs and died, at the moment I have no sympathy for him. I do however feel for his family.

    If Hoffman was not a wealthy actor who could afford his drugs, would he be breaking into New York apartments to steal an XBox for his next fix?
    Would we care or even know if he died.?
    Why do we have sympathy for someone we have never met but have watched him on film?
    Why do we make excuses for wealthy actors that get depressed and kill themselves when ordinary folk struggle on with their lives on a minimum wage with debilitating illnesses.

    Joplin, Hendrix, Morrison, Belushi etc etc etc

    Sorry to be a bit depressing but thats me at the moment. I have bigger things to worry about than dead actors.

    Not posted on the Hoffman thread as somewhat off topic and not necessarily about him.

    Bit of a ramble but I feel better now.
     
  2. lucasisking

    lucasisking
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    I've never said that and (fortunately) don't know anyone else who would.

    Yet you started a rambling thread about one...
     
  3. kav

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    Most people who have seen Hoffman on-screen consider him an excellent actor who genuinely became almost every role he played. In that respect he brought a huge amount of entertainment to the masses, so although not many knew him, they can genuinely mourn his passing because of this.

    Consider the recent death of Paul Walker - also a tragedy, and by all accounts he was a genuinely well-liked person - but he probably had less of an impact on the average person as he tended to play generic roles that never really stood out as memorable masterclasses in acting. Hoffman on the other hand, everyone who knew his films could list a favourite performance, and they were all incredibly diverse.

    Regarding how he died, it's a tragedy, but depression can afflict anyone, regardless of wealth or social standing. If you have not experienced it, it's easy to be dismissive and make light of someone's problems, but anyone who has experienced it can tell you that regardless of how apparently great your life appears to others, if you can't find joy in anything it matters little what anyone else thinks - it's very easy to end up convincing yourself that there is no other way out. That said, we don't even know if he committed suicide, do we? My understanding was that it was an overdose, possibly accidental. Unfortunately some people don't have an off switch - I have a friend like this, he is unable to stop drinking on a night out, he'll keep drinking until he passes out. He may have his ups and downs, but neither is he suicidal. I'm sure the same questions would be asked of him though, if he ever went too far.

    I don't think empathy needs to be exclusive to one person or group - you can feel bad on a comparatively philosophical level for someone like Hoffman (ie I was gutted to lose him as a great actor whose films I invariably enjoyed, but I wasn't shedding tears or very emotional, as I did not know him personally), yet this does not preclude feeling much more powerful emotions about tragedies that impact you directly. It's more than likely simply the way human beings have evolved to cope with it - if we felt pure empathy for everyone who experienced tragedy, we'd probably be driven insane by all the bad that goes on in the world. So we focus on what's close to us, and force ourselves to be dismissive about things beyond that. Famous people, especially those who have caused us to feel strong emotion from their work, tend to cross that barrier, for some people more than others.
     
  4. Cliff

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    In our celebrity world actors do have some special status. That's just the way it is. In Shakespeare's time they were considered near the bottom in terms of social status.

    Hoffman did not break into anyone's house. If he had committed a crime then that would be quite different. So do I have any sympathy? Certainly for his family. As for him, well it was an accident and not suicide so yes, for his misjudgment.
    But some of the tributes I have seen on TV are way over the top in my opinion as I would not consider him a household name. But the entertainment business will always push the boat out for there own people.
     
  5. joel88

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    Not sure what the point in your thread was really?

    I feel sad at the loss of a human, and a talented human at that. Regardless of how he died.
     
  6. Broko

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    Lucasisjking . Never quoted you. Dont even remember the post on the other thread. Certainly was not having a go!
    BUT if you have been burgled and they ransack the place and wipe sh*t on the walls and youre wife can no longer live in the house so you end up moving and the police catch the smack head and he gets a £500 fine that he cannot pay so the take £5 a week from his dole that you pay for in the first place, you might think it.
    (None of this has happenned to me BTW.)


    Theres always different feelings someone can have about anyones death. Hoffmans death came at a time when I had just buried a friend as i said. You feel aggrieved that a friend is gone and someone who has apparently the world at his feet throws it away. But on the otherhand until you are in his shoes you have no idea what he is going through. I dont mean to imply that Hoffman killed himself, I doubt it, but I still do not know what goes through someones mind for them to take heroin.

    I had an accident a few years ago that has changed my life dramatically. I get depressed but have never tried heroin to blot it all out. A lot of the time I think "woe is me" but there are thousands of people dealing with a lot worse than what I have done.
     
  7. SteakAndCake

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    Drugs didn't do that. Poverty did. Philip Hoffman and Nigella aren't out painting walls with sh*t or mugging people. If people can get their drug, they don't commit crime. It's a good example of why drug or any addiction should be treated as a health issue and not a criminal one.
     
  8. Broko

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    Reading a few of the posts on the tribute page and the Huffington Post page wealth does has something to do with it and not just because you can afford the drugs. Its when the low life drug pushers can see you as an easy way of making money and dont give a knack whether what the sell you will kill you.

    and poverty makes people steal and always has but ransacking and destroying for the sake of it is nothing to do with poverty!
     
  9. Broko

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    BTW in my original post when I ask why we care, it was a genuine question as to what it is in us that does that. I was not having a pop at him or anyone else.
    Maybe I should work on my grasp of the english language.
     
  10. SteakAndCake

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    Probably because a good actor (and Hoffman was a great actor) create characters that resonate and connect with audiences. For the two hours we watch them, we feel we know and care for the character and by extension the actor.
     
  11. SBT

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    A good lesson for kids.
    STAY AWAY FROM DRUGS!!
     
  12. lucasisking

    lucasisking
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    You said '"most people think druggies deserve to die of an overdose". Just pointing out that if that's the case, I'm not one of the 'most people'. I don't think people with addictions deserve to die from them.

    I agree that if someone trashed my house, defacated in it and stole my possessions, I'd probably be of the opinion that the world is better off without them. I might even want to expedite their departure with a baseball bat.

    But as StealAndCake said, crime and addiction are separate issues. Addiction can be a psychological dependency as much as a physical one, and there are all kinds of things you can get addicted to. You can get addicted to porn, gambling, alcohol, sex, computer games, exercise, people, eating, dieting...

    The proper response is to try to treat that addiction as the mental illness that it is. The tragedy is that in this instance PSH's illness wasn't treated- either because his problems were too severe or because he didn't feel able to get the help he needed.

    Why is Hoffman more important than other people? He isn't. But being a famous person means his problems are in the public consciousness and might, just might, persuade somebody somewhere to get help before its too late.
     
  13. Steve N

    Steve N
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    Murphy . . Is that you?
     
  14. Broko

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    You do hear more and more people (especially in the public eye) admitting to depression. It is now not something to be ashamed of and means more people will ask for help.
    Its very difficult to treat tho.
    I remember an Adam Ant documentary when he was no1 in the singles chart and the albums chart but was still clinically depressed. People kept asking him what he had to be depressed about?

    Again unless you've been there it is impossible to understand what goes on in the mind.

    Me Dad used to ramble on like me and quote poetry all the time. A lot of which has sunk in. Whenever someone kills them selves (Not that PSH did!) I always remember him quoting the Quitter by Robert Service.
    (google it)

    Nice and cheerful here int it!
     
  15. Broko

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    Surely its Zammo
     
  16. SteakAndCake

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    Didn't the Grange Hill kids get invited the White House by Nancy "War on Drugs" Reagan and afterwards, confessed to taking drugs in a White House bathroom?
     
  17. SBT

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    No, Jackie
     
  18. SBT

    SBT
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    Yes they did, I was pals with ziggy (the scouse one) back in the day.
    A right stoner he was too.
     
  19. Jules Winfield

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    So why bother posting? If you genuinely don't care about his death, why spend so long posting (repeatedly) about it? You don't have to care, but there's nothing wrong with other people feeling otherwise. You seem to have a bit of an issue with this.

    That might be a good idea. Your initial post meandered around all over the place and I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make is. Describing it as a "ramble" is being overly charitable. You could also try and get his name right: Philip Seymour Hoffman. I assume I missed your previous posts about Nigel Mandela and Mildred Thatcher?

    Speaking for myself, I admired his body of work. He was a great actor and seemed like a decent guy. I have my own demons (not drugs or drink), so am not entirely unsympathetic to what has happened. And, as a human being, I have empathy for (some of) the other human beings that walk the planet.

    Personally, I don't get Justin Bieber. Yet there are no posts from me where I agonise about his appeal teenaged girls.
     
  20. liamt

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    isnt that scarface as your avatar. bit odd no? :laugh:

    i have to say heroin is up there on the list of sh*t things you can do to yourself. just like becoming an alcoholic. but then again i think people who climb mont blanc who die are idiots too, especially if you have kids. you could argue any dangerous activity when you are a parent is stupid. you could even argue that these days joining the forces if you are a parent isnt a great idea. especially with the crap wars we have now.

    i dont have issues with some drugs, weed, E etc are relatively harmless (e certainly seems less dangerous than all the synthetic legal highs that are doing the rounds).

    the war on drugs has been lost, look at how the USA is finally coming around to the fact that weed isnt dangerous and why criminalise so many of its own citizens who arent doing anyone any harm? obama smoked weed growing up and didnt seem to do him any harm.

    for PSH i do feel bad for his family. i wonder what got him into smack in the first place? many years ago i used to know several smack heads and people who injected speed daily. they were all pretty much lost causes who had given up on life and that is all they had. some of them got into it to escape from whatever hell they were living in (abuse etc) and some had just gone down the wrong path from recreational drug usage. i wouldnt trust any of them though.

    im so glad i resisted the temptation to try heroin. i did plenty of speed but refrained from ever going near needles though. drugs were always a fun thing for me and not a crutch, i think that is an important factor. even with drinking, if you drink to have fun its much better than to cope with depression, especially with alcohol being a depressant and basically stealing happiness from tomorrow for a short fix today. its a very vicious cycle.

    all i do these days is smoke pot occasionally. i rarely drink either. at least with weed i dont get a hangover and it doesnt change my personality like alcohol can do, it can really bring out the worst in people.

    apologies if this isnt that coherent, im full of cold and not high ;)
     
  21. liamt

    liamt
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    the thing is, not all of us are as strong as other people. i classify myself as quite a tough little sod in respect to overcoming what is thrown at me. my wife isnt as strong and suffers from clinical depression ( a hereditary problem both her parents suffer from - she was always destined to have it, as does her brother)

    cheers for the poem. here it is for anyone interested:

    The Quitter

    By: Robert Service


    When you’re lost in the Wild, and you’re scared as a child,
    And Death looks you bang in the eye,
    And you’re sore as a boil, it’s according to Hoyle
    To cock your revolver and . . . die.
    But the Code of a Man says: “Fight all you can,”
    And self-dissolution is barred.
    In hunger and woe, oh, it’s easy to blow . . .
    It’s the hell-served-for-breakfast that’s hard.

    “You’re sick of the game!” Well, now, that’s a shame.
    You’re young and you’re brave and you’re bright.
    “You’ve had a raw deal!” I know-but don’t squeal,
    Buck up, do your damnedest, and fight.
    It’s the plugging away that will win you the day,
    So don’t be a piker, old pard!
    Just draw on your grit; it’s so easy to quit:
    It’s the keeping-your-chin-up that’s hard.

    It’s easy to cry that you’re beaten-and die;
    It’s easy to crawfish and crawl;
    But to fight and to fight when hope’s out of sight-
    Why, that’s the best game of them all!
    And though you come out of each grueling bout,
    All broken and beaten and scarred,
    Just have one more try-it’s dead easy to die,
    It’s the keeping-on-living that’s hard.
     
  22. lucasisking

    lucasisking
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    That irony wasn't lost on me either :).
     
  23. Courtjezter

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    I think the real question in all of this is...

    Broko are you ok?
     
  24. Broko

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    Its Scarface because my face is covered in Scars. Not cos I'm a Cuban drug baron. Picked it before started rambling about drugs but Freud would make something of it. Tried using the dancing Laurel and Hardy that I had on other groups but was 5kb too big.
    Off work at the moment recovering from an operation, so got a bit of time to post and play music.

    I am ok thanks. Had a tough few years tho and the last thing was losing a close friend. The injustice of this compared to another person who makes a mistake with drugs was what instigated the original post. Put it a nicely as I could and didnt want to post on the tribute page.

    This general chat is the nearest I can get to a proper conversation at the mo. Dont have a go at me for being in contact with the human race.
    Maybe you're right Jules, I should just have no contact with anyone in case I upset them.

    Any Justin Bieber fans on here?
     
  25. Member 639844

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    I think the main difference between some of the high profile drug deaths and the common street thief addict is that their contributions to humanity are vastly different. There are even bands who credit their drug use to their creativity (Pink Floyd springs to mind). Ive always sat on the fence when it comes to drug use. On the one hand there is a clear connection between drug use and negative effects on society and families, but on the other hand there are drug users like Hoffman that fund their habbit through perfectly legitimate and legal avenues, and seemingly dont allow it to affect their families or working life (obviously taking his actual death out of the equation). I respect the right of an individual like Hoffman to do what he wants to his body, he may have even been quite accepting of the fact it might one day kill him and have been happy to accept that choice, who knows. Maybe he was an addict that wanted help but couldnt get it (people like MJ spring to mind) because they are surrounded by yes men etc, and maybe he enjoyed his hit and died happy, non of us will ever really know for sure.

    I think the news stories are more about the death of a high profile, and often talented individual, rather than the drug use specifically. Paul Walker wasnt a drug user, but his death was reported just as much as Hoffmans, and Ive not seen any comments calling him an idiot for driving stupidly or words to that effect (I know he wasnt driving).
     
  26. raduv1

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    A lot of famous people Artists,actors,writer,sportsmen throughout the ages have had this self destructive side to there personalities. In some respects its that part of there personality that makes there work great and remembered....no scrap that because then there is Justin Bieber :facepalm:.
     

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