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Philips pixelplus with Panasonic tube !

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by ums69, Apr 23, 2002.

  1. ums69

    ums69
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    Here we go again.

    Philips new 32" PW9767 with P+ has got Panasonic tube and the test in german :www.audiovision.de reveals that the 2 years old 9525 got better picture overall and Philips still uses Panasonictube !!!

    :mad:
     
  2. rauer

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    The 28PW9525 and 32PW9525 had Philips' tubes but the 36PW9525 had a Panasonic tube.

    For more exact info see my reply in an earlier thread
     
  3. Nyquil Driver

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    My P+ 9617 (28") definitely has a cybertube and the picture's probably the best I've ever witnessed (on a CRT anyway). I bought a Panasonic TV a few months back (PL1) and the TAU tube in that model was woeful (3 static bars, dirty patches, focus problems).

    If my 9617 had arrived with a Panny tube I would have sent it straight back!. I'm surprised to hear this is still going on actually....
     
  4. ums69

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    Do not forget Philips statement about 9616:

    ...an improved version of Philips' Cybertube will start to appear in 9616s from June, replacing the Panasonic ones. People wanting to wait until then so that they get a Philips tube should look out for a slight change in the name of the TV. The full name of the Philips 32PW9616 apparently – if our contact's memory served him correctly - has a '/05R' (Philips tube) or '/05M' (Panasonic tube) at the end to indicate which tube is being used in a particular model, and this end section will change again in June with the sets that hold the new Philips tube.

    .....improved version...... !!!

    and Philips other statement about Cybertube:

    “With Sony’s ‘aperture grill’ approach you get a somewhat ‘hollow’ picture. Other manufacturers have used a simpler approach, the so-called ‘thick wedge’, which unfortunately gives a cylindrical or round picture. Finally a number of tube manufacturers are now experimenting with a variant of the aperture grill approach, using a stretched or semi-stretched mask.

    “For the Cybertube we took a totally different approach. Instead of trying to flatten the mask – the screen at which the electron beam is shot – we used a technique called Gun Pitch Modulation (GPM) to give us much greater control over the gun that fires the electrons. The result is that our tube gives a real flat image with no distortion.”


    AND THATS WHY PHILIPS USES PANASONIC TUBES ??????


    And finally fromPhilips:

    Award-winning technology
    The Cybertube’s state-of-the-art picture performance has been further recognized by its role in winning the ‘TV of the Year’ award, presented by Media Totaal magazine in the Netherlands.
    This year’s award went to the Philips 32PW9525 100 Hz set, whose picture quality is due partly to the use of a 32 inch widescreen format Cybertube CRT.The judges considered this set to have the best picture quality of all nominations.
    “The tube’s innovative design delivers pictures with excellent and uniform contrast, brightness and focus, allowing character and high resolution graphics display on large screen format TV sets. Picture performance of this high standard is achieved without the perception of the screen being hollow or concave, as is the case with competitors’ products. Even when not in use, the screen looks attractively flat,” according to the award citation.
     
  5. spikeyboyo

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    So how do you tell if the new Pixel Plus sets have the Phillips Cyber Tube - im looking at gettting the 36" P+ (cant remeber number) set next week.


    Spike
     
  6. Grubert

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    Maybe the Cybertube design makes it impossible to manufacture in large sizes, because from what you all say, no 36-incher has had a Cybertube.

    Just guessing.:confused:
     
  7. Zacabeb

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    Philips will start manufacturing a 36" Cybertube HD as of this spring.

    In their 36" sets they always used Panasonic tubes, something they desperately try to hide by using the chassis sticker to obscure the Panasonic logo of the CRT sticker.

    http://members01.chello.se/zacabeb/crt_coverup.gif

    Since Pixel Plus has the same horizontal frequency as regular 100Hz (31.25 kHz) they can if they so desire cheat by using pretty much any tube with a 100Hz deflection yoke, even if it would mean effectively ruining Pixel Plus. That tube would probably be that semi-HD definition MDDG CRT (0.67 mm pitch) used in the 32PW9616, unlike the Cybertube HD (0.57 mm pitch) Philips promised to put into the Pixel Plus sets.

    A Cybertube is most easily recognized over a Quintrix F by the following telltale signs:

    1. Vertical center markings - Cybertube does not have any, Quintrix F does.
    2. Vertical curvature - Cybertube appears vertically flat, Quintrix F appears curved.
    3. If possible, use a flashlight to look down the vents on the rear of the set for the CRT sticker. If the sticker is covered with another as seen in the picture link above, it is certainly not a Philips. If the sticker says MDDG it is a Panasonic.
      [/list=1]

      I don't know how the new Cybertube HD looks, but since Philips haven't been using center markings on their bigger CRT's for ages, I doubt they should be there.
     
  8. spikeyboyo

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    Isnt it spring now :)

    So does this mean if i order the 36" P+ set now it will come with a Panasonic Tube ???

    One other thing im sure ive seen lots of people recommending Panasonic TV's on this site - so what is the problem with the Pana Tube ??? does it mean P+ isnt as good with the Pana tube ??

    As the 36" P+ set is new isnt it likely to be using the new 36" Cyber tube ???

    Sorry for so many questions - just i want to get it right before i part with my cash.


    Spike
     
  9. AndyFox

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    So from the comments here would it be likely that the new

    32PW9617 and 28PW9617 use a Philips tube
    BUT
    36PW9607 is using a Panasonic Tube

    And therefore when review models are at one size does that mean you can't assume that buy picking the same model but in a differing size you will get very similar results.

    I naively thought the reason for the 9607/9617 difference was the corded/cordless rearspeakers but could be more fundamental....

    Andy
     
  10. spikeyboyo

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    Curious - ive just spoken to the local shop im intending to purchas the 36PW9607C from (no its not Comet or Curries ETAL) and they have checked with their supplier who have stated that the 36PW9607C does ship with the the Phillips Tube - however im still not 100% certain of this untill i read it with my own two eyes - so in view of this does anyone know the contact number for Phillips.


    Spike
     
  11. Banjaxe

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    I saw a 32 inch 9617 in John Lewis in Edinburgh that had the centre markings on the tube.

    Ronnie
     
  12. ums69

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    Probably is it possibly that Philips treat 9617 as the same as 9616 this last year with different tubes inside.(and quality problems)


    I am going to buy 36" 9767 (most advanced set of all Philips CRT tubes) and was interesting to know if HD Cybertube is inside.

    After contacting Philips today I got this answer:
    36" PW 9767 thats replace PW9765 has the same tube as 9765.

    Well, that means probably Panasonictube in Philips HighEnd Nr1

    And after more searching;

    In LG.PhilipsDisplay info about the plan for new market, they say that in 18 month (from summer 2001) they will uppgrade 9 TV models with new tech(and still the same tubes probably) and introduce over 10 new models with HD Cybertube and Slim HD Cybertube.

    The release of Philips own 36" HD Cybertube will be before the end of Q3 2002 and 36" Slim HD Cybertube Q3 2003.

    I have tried to get an officiall answer about P+ and different tubes
    but philips says " Real Flat Blackline S" is Philips own tubes....hmm

    In the original Philips datasheet of 9767 it seems to be the same as 9765 but with P+ and new chassi.
     
  13. spikeyboyo

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    Spoke to Philips customer service today - has stated that Panasonic dont make there own tubes - Philips make tubes for Panasonic !!!

    Then pointed out the new article and various threads on this forum to him - he looked them up and went - umm i see what you mean - went away to find out some info - came back and said that a tech guy would call me back with the answer as it was news to the tech guy as well - guess i will have to wait and see what the answer is.

    Just to cover all bases have also fired an Email off to John Archer of Home cinema Choice to see if he can find anything out.

    If anyone else can shed any light on if the 36PW9607C uses Philips or Pana tube i would be greatful - i will also update if i get any news.

    Damn this is really becoming a bit of a nightmare - and there was me thinking buying a new TV would be easy :)


    Spike
     
  14. spikeyboyo

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    Just heard back from Philips - guy stated that any philips TV could come with either a Philips or Panasonic tube - its kinda pot luck - oh well thats good to hear.

    Strange thing is that he also stated that the serial numbers of the end of the old 9616 didnt refer to the tube make !!!!!

    Well now im really up a gumb tree - i dont want a panasonic tube - i hate the way they look - so if i order the 36PW9607 and get one with a Panasonic tube i wonder what my chances are of having it changed just cause it got a Panasonic tube which i dont like but theres nowt wrong with the set !!!!

    Still hopeing John Archer digs something up.

    One other thing im thinking of is getting the retialer to check if the TV thats gonna be shipped to me has Philips or Pana tube - what exactly do they need to look for on the back of the TV ?? need idiots guide please so that i can explain it to the for them to explain to there supplier


    Spike
     
  15. Lizzard

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    Are Philips plain stupid?

    If customers wanted Panasonic tubes they would go for a Panasonic TV and not a Philips.

    If you buy a Philips you expect to get a Philips tube.

    I think this is a simple case of customer violation.
     
  16. spikeyboyo

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    The guy at Philips said it happens all the time with all manufacturers - apparently down to supply and demand - its not just limited to the tube - it could also be circuit boards etc that may be sourced from a different manufacturer.

    So guess its just which hybrid Philips, panasonic, tosh, sony Tv i want to buy now ;)


    Spike
     
  17. SiCotty

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    Just had another look at the 9617 in John Lewis. Has a tube which is not totally flat and curves in at both sides. Look at the Loewe Aconda next to it with a nice flat screen. Look at other philips tubes and some are curved (Panasonic) and some not (Philips).

    Why put a Panasonic tube into what is supposed to be thier top of the range model? If I wanted a Panasonic tube I would by a Panasonic TV

    Sih
     
  18. ums69

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    To check if there are Cybertube or Quintrix in 9607, look what Zacabeb write further up.

    I can tell one thing about Panasonic. They do indeed make their own tubes. But Philips/Panasonic are in some kind of business relation
    when it comes to TV (tubes) Secret ?

    Today I saw 32" PW9617 and tested everything on it. (dvd, video, digital box, RF terrestial)

    Panasonictubes inside and absolut worse of all....
    BIG BIG Geometry problems in the top of the picture
    (happy mouth) :mad:

    Exact the same as my old 9616 with Panasonictube.

    And......Chassi/tube has not been centered perfect. :mad:

    This is ****ing amazing of Philips that there are different qualities between the same model because of different tubes.

    Ok. I rest my case now and waiting for panny 36"9767 to be delivered.....Maybe its wonderful and I am full of ****.
    Or I return the TV and getting a new one so on.. so on.. so on until I am satisfied.

    :D
     
  19. AndyFox

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    Can understand them changing circuit boards maybe but the tube is essentially the key element to the TV. Som emay even suggest they have a stock of ones with better Philips tubes in them to send out for reviews and shop demos and then send the buying public the load they have with lesser Panasonic tubes in them and hope they don't notice and complain!

    If they weren't so very different ( from the comments them that know have made ) then fair do's but this seems to be a case of a manufacturer knowingly selling a product which it really isn't.
    Can't imagine your local shop or internet retailer being too impressed with orders coming in with 'PHILIPS TUBE MANDATORY' on it and having TV's returned if this isn't delivered!

    Andy
     
  20. Zacabeb

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    I see three alternatives:

    1)
    Concept: We take hostages.
    Advantages: Relieves anger.
    Disadvantages: Subjects innocent people to psychological trauma. Will probably work against its intended purpose. Has been tried once and ended in tragedy.

    Verdict: Nice as a fantasy but utterly stupid in practice.

    2)
    Concept: We put pressure on Philips to stop making promises they can not keep.
    Advantages: It might work. Philips may after all not be as stupid as they look. Or, they may not want to look as stupid as they are.
    Disadvantages: Will require plenty of disgruntled customers to be found and united. May require a class action lawsuit. May require subjecting Philips to annoyance.

    Verdict: A beautiful but tricky solution.

    3)
    Concept: We all boycott Philips.
    Advantages: Something they've deserved for a long time.
    Disadvantages: Not going to happen.

    Verdict: Not very feasible.


    Out of these, the only thing I can vote for is solution 2;
    We annoy Philips until they are forced to admit their chicanery. We force them to reflect product variations in their product codes and make their retailers aware of such variations. We force them to cease and desist all misleading marketing of their technology; if they won't put it in, they won't put it out.

    I think HCC should run - not just one but a series - of articles regarding how manufacturers stretch their mouths to make promises impossible to keep.
     
  21. AndyFox

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    Just trying to get more info on the panasonic/philips thing and found this older thread which IF correct may alay fears....

    Link 32302

    Andy
     
  22. spikeyboyo

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    Had an email response from John Acher - he is in contact with Philips and hopes to have an answer soon :)


    Spike
     
  23. spikeyboyo

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    Andy - you seem to have linked to this thread not an oldr one.


    Spike
     
  24. AndyFox

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    sorry - fixed now
     
  25. AndyFox

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    Well not to happy with the response from Philips to query- just backs up SpikeyBoyo regarding content of the TV.

    >>>
    With regard to your query about Pixel plus TV'S.

    The features on the 36pw9607 are the same as the 28/329617 apart from
    the rear speakers.

    With any TV that you purchase a certain percentage of the components
    could be from other manufacturers whether the TV is made by
    Philips,Sony, Panasonic or any other manufacturers.

    All companies share parts to keep the cost of production down so this
    can be passed on to the customer.

    It is possible that when you buy one of these models it could have a
    Philips tube or a Panasonic tube.

    I think you will find these tubes are manufactured in the same plant
    to the same high standards and should not effect the quality of your
    picture.

    Which ever tube you have in your TV it would be tested to Philips
    high standards with regard to quality.

    There is no distinction between any model numbers to indicate which
    tube would be in a particular model.
    <<<<

    So it would appear that the statement made in page 19 of 2002 summer brochure (UK) :

    "REAL FLAT Picture Tube - the launch of our flat televisions has taken the viewing experience to an unparalleled level, creating life like images. Revolutionary glass design and high compression surface glass technolgy results in:-
    An Image closer to the viewer which can be seen from a wider viewing angle
    - Thinner glass meaning image is closer to the front of the tube and therefore less distorted
    - A truly flat screen allowing for uniform sharpness and brightness over the entire screen, even in the corners."

    Even has a pic at top of Convential and New Real Flat screen

    .
    Then again later the spec states the 3 tv's come with Real Flat BlackLine S tubes. the text that explains them reads:

    "Philips TV Picture Tube with Invar Mask which gives less deformation and therefore can provide 80% more contrast than convential picture tubes for brilliant colours and minimal reflections even in daylight"

    That doesn't appear to say it is a Panasonic tube if we feel like it!!

    Unimpressed I am!!!

    Andy
     
  26. spikeyboyo

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    Yep your not the only one whos not impressed - im hoping that John Archer gets a more positive repsonse from Philips - being part of the media on Home Entertianment etc.

    However i have a feeling this could really be blowing the lid of TV manufactures practises and may well be the reason why some TV be it Philips, Sony, Panansonic etc have varing performance - take the Picture frame tosh for example - lots have the same problems but some dont have these problems - i wonder if its down to them having different tubes in as well !!!!!!!


    Spike
     
  27. Joe Pineapples

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    Is there a sure-fire way of identifying which tube the 32PW9617 has in it (physically - not through just the picture quality) ?

    Dean
     
  28. ums69

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    At least three way;
    Look at the beginning of this thread what Zacabeb wrote.
     
  29. arifn1

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    what do you mean by vertical centre marking being a tell tale sign. Where are these centre markings. More detail please. Thank you
     
  30. Zacabeb

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    The center markings are small dots on either side of the picture, and look like this (although quite small).

    [​IMG]

    These are added by some manufacturers to assist in geometry alignment done by the TV factory. Philips assume a different approach in geometry setup and do not use center markings on their CRT's.

    I had a look at a 32PW9617 today and here are my impressions:

    The CRT was obviously an MDDG (Panasonic) in that particular set, and looked to be the same one as before (W76EKW10X73). It had the typical Panasonic problems: dark corners and bands on either side, and lesser impression of flatness at viewing distance. This particular set did however not seem to have any problems with color purity or focus.

    In Pixel Plus mode, the image was sharper than most other TV's, but no sharper than it should have been on any modern TV in the first place. I felt completely unaffected by Pixel Plus, it neither impressed me nor disappointed me. However, the color smear associated with Natural Motion remains.

    What did however disappoint me was that in Pixel Plus mode, the left side of the image jittered hysterically. This might have been because of scatter fields from a 100Hz, 36" WEGA next to it that interfered with the 75Hz rate of Pixel Plus. Whatever the reason, it wasn't pretty.

    The menu overlay is strangely affected by the funny frequencies. Its native 24MHz horizontal rate and standard character ROM doesn't match up very nicely with Pixel Plus, so the on-screen menus are shrunk to microscopic proportions. It looks quite funny.

    I had the staff check the type number to find out if there was any telltale letter in there, to identify the variant of the set. There was none.
     

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