Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by stanleyntl, Oct 12, 2004.
What is this recorder like for PQ and ease of operation?
Any disadvantages with this recorder?
I only have a 32" 4:3 TV and record everything in M2+ mode ie 2.5hrs and am more than happy but I'm not a PQ expert.
I find it easy to use as most operations are on seperate buttone ie toggle EPG Guide/Record setup, toggle PlayList, toggle Record Schedule etc.
Editing on Hard Disk is easy.
Drawbacks to me are :
Remote a bit on small side
Cannot record direct to DVD
Cannot record DVD to HDD
People also say lack of variable bit recording is a failure. I just think ahead.
Summary from my point of view. - I'm more than happy especially because of EPG and Satellite & Freeview control
This is without a doubt the poorest HDD/DVDR combo on the market,and one wonders why anyone would buy it.
No recording direct to dvd is not a major problem,but if you record something in peak quality to the HDD of more than an hour,you cannot copy it to dvd due to the lack of flexible recording-a major ommission.Why should you need to think ahead.What if its something new and you don't decide you want to keep it until after its recorded?Every other machine on the market provides FR in some form.
The latest What Video has a featurew comparing all the latest HDD/DVDR combos.The Philips does not come out of it very well,as the reviewers state that even in top recording mode,broadcast quality is unobtainable.Not a good sign!
When I'm netxt at the bookshop I will read the review. I was however just trying to answer the question objectively from a users point of view!
Also this measuring of broadcast quality is no doubt done by a machine of some sort whereas all that really matters is what the eye can see when watching the TV. The variety of picture quality from analog, digital satellite and terrestrial varies enormously.
The reason you can't copy in the above scenario is not that it has no FR mode but rather that it doesn't let you re-encode at all !!! So you can't even dub from M1 to M2. Absolutely useless
here here....it amazes me that some individuals are not content with what 'they' can actually see/hear...it must be written down in black & white somewhere that "they are enjoying a true visual/audio experience"...before 'they' can actual experience it ???
makes me wonder how long it will be before they need 'statistics' to tell them how much 'they' enjoy the flavour of Mars Bars - guffaaaw
I've had a Philips DVDR70 and 75 for over two years and I've been really happy with the quality. Two weeks a go I bought a Pioneer 420 and the picture quality is nowhere near as good as the Philips especially on the 6hr setting which I archive most of my stuff on. The Pioneer records straight to DVD whereas the new Philips 720 doesn't. I have learnt this last two weeks that it isn't the drawback I thought it might have been. However editing on the Pioneer HD is excellent. In my household the major drawback of the Pioneer is -R/RW. I record many things and the kids may want to take them upstairs to play in their DVD players. With +RW the disks play immediately in any player but with -RW you have to record to the disk and then finalise which is a major bummer.
Anyway, back to my question because I might offload this Pioneer 420.
The other night I recorded U2 on Jonathan Ross and with the Pioneer I was able to erase all the interview sections out leaving just the three live music sections.
Would it be possible to do this on the Philips ?
Philips can skip anything you dont want to see - which leaves the choice of watching the edit or uncut version (ideal if you have children and you want both versions)
...and as I suggested it's almost certainly a setup issue. Several users here - including Phelings - have all transfered from Philips to Pioneer and noted an improvement in PQ. Still if you are unable to troubleshoot then maybe something simple would suit you better...
Have to admit I agree with Phelings 100% on this. The HDRW720 is without doubt the poorest DVD recorder on the market. If you look at the criticism of the machine it's easy to see why:
No Re-encoding Possible. An unbelievable omission. This is a standard feature on EVERY other HDD/DVDR combo. It is remarkable that on a Philips you can record something onto the HDD and be unable to dub it to DVDR without dividing it. This single feature makes a joke of the whole machine
No Accurate Editting. Not much to say on this really: if you want to edit then a Philips machine will never be in consideration anyway.
No Playlists. The Philips offers no way of re-arranging (e.g.) music compilations or conducting non-destructive editting. This feature is one of the most popular and frequently used by DVD recorder owners.
No Flexible Record. Unlike most machines the Philips range do not have the ability to fit a recording to disk. As 4.7GB is a low capacity space you simply cannot afford to waste it. A major omission.
Below Average Recording Picture Quality. The November 2004 What Video & Widescreen Entertainment Magazine is probably the best review to pickup if you doubt this. "Recorded images are not so impressive. The deck captures a noticeably lower level of brightness at M1 top-quality setting...the image is darker and less vivid" (p69). In addition the resolution drop occurs 30 minutes earlier than it does on equivalent Panasonic and Thompson machines. Not very impressive.
No Time Base Corrector. Another significant omission that will affect anyone with old VHS tapes they wish to convert. Philips is the ONLY major producer who has not added a TBC into their design - and it shows. On elderly and slightly distorted tapes lip sync issues do occur. Contrast that with the Sony, Panasonic or JVC machines that have all show their worth at capturing VHS of all qualities/callibres.
No DVD-R Support. There is little dispute now that DVD-R is the most compatible format. Not only have independent sources come to that conclusion but so has the online database of compatibility on all DVD players. As the whole point of a HDD/DVDR is to archive editted recordings on compatible media the omission of the most compatible format is a major omission (one Philips have now corrected on their PC drives - so why not on the set-tops?).
The next thing you should consider is the reliability issues. Nobody - apart from a few newbies unaware of the scale of the problem - denies now that Philips machines have had major problems. And accordingly I really don't see the need to discuss this issue further - do a search if you doubt it. This forum has very few Philips owners on it - due to the reasons outlined above/below - and yet even here you get numerous posts by Philips owners with problems. Do a search of this forum and look at the nature of the failures: discs errors and terminal failures. Consult how many Firmware upgrades are available for their machines. Do a wider Google search. You'll find the problems are epidemic, worldwide and effecting all of their machines.
Why Then Would You Buy A Philips?
All these issues could potentially be forgiven - or at least overlooked - if Philips machines offered something that was actually a useful feature. So lets look at the Philips pluses:
Guideplus. EPGs are the way forward - no doubt about that whatsoever. On there top-end machines Philips have opted for Guideplus - an EPG used (in the US) by many major companies including Panasonic and Sony. Superficially then this sounds ideal - unfortunately once you look a little deeper it is not quite so good. For one thing there are doubts over Guideplus long term survival: in the US Guideplus was adopted by Sony, Panasonic, Philips and other major producers. In the UK a lack of bandwidth meant Sony and Panasonic declined the Service leaving Philips as the sole supporter. It is unlikely then that the UK version Guideplus is commercial viable. The second issue facing Guidplus is a lack of bandwidth: the data for the EPG has insufficient 'air time' to enable late programme alterations to be made. This makes it unrelaible for recording - in which case what is the point. Again consult a recent users experience.
Set-Box Control. A feature sorely missing from many DVD recorders it was good to see Philips add this to their 'high end' machines: the DVDR80 for example. Once again though it has largely failed to be effective given that a large number of main stream producers are not supported. Here, here or here for example. Firmware updates to correct these faults were promised to What Video 12 months ago but never arrived. By comparison Toshiba have managed near universal compatibility with their magic wand...
Editting Without Loosing Compatibility. Again a potentially useful feature - abeit pointless on a HDD/DVDR. Unfortunately to achieve this the ultimate 'dodgy compromise' had to be reached, i.e. the editting is inaccurate and anyone who actually wanted to edit in the first place is left with little choice but to go down the PC route. And here they start at a disadvanatge as, unlike Panasonic, Toshiba, Pioneer, Sony, JVC (etc) they still have to edit: the end effect is We now see loads of DVD+ users having to use Womble editting suites and a DVD authoring programme. Had they opted for virtually any other make of set-top then they could have avoided buying the extra software and achieved better results (due to the use of Flexible Record).
I think anyone who considers these issues will decide that Philips is not the way forward for them. For those wanting further re-assurance pickup the What Video & Widescreen Entertainment (November) and see the Philips v Pioneer v JVC v Panasonic group test. I think it is very telling that the JVC, Panasonic and Pioneer all scored 5/5 whereas the Philips scored only 3/5! And in both the Home Cinema Choice & What Video Winter Awards (December issues) none of the Philips machines scored.
The bottom line here is that a potential buyer should ask him/herself the following questions:
- Why buy a machine the reliability of which is (very) suspect?
- Why buy a machine with significantly less features than other DVD recorders?
- Why buy a machine which has not had favourable magazine reviews?
This all equates to Why Buy A Philips? - and there doesn't seem to be a very convincing argument for at the moment. Avoid bad rubbish
hardly - it comes with free EPG - without EPG an HDD recorder is little more than redundant already -
might aswell stick it in your computer - in fact my computer is more convenient for TV recordings than
stand alone HDD (despite the fact that it's in my bedroom ) - any other 'niggles' are totally
Wrong again - if you stop for one moment to consider 'why' you would ever need to re-encode - instead
of a knee-jerk assumption based on pre-historic methodolgy - Philips prolly ommited re-encoding for
the same reasons they ommited 'teletext' - the machine makes it redundant
Does more than I need & can retain the uncut version
Of course it does - now you're being deliberatley obtuse
HDRW720 uses Folder name for album and header information from MP3's for Artist, Album, Track No &
Track Title.....you might want to 're-organise' this.....if you got nothing better to do i spose
Alllllllll my recordings have fitted onto a disk - To fit anything more than would make the recording
sub-standard (which no doubt be a critism of Philips if they did offer it - just like upto 8 hours on
one DVD - which you're no doubt comming to)
Hogwash - 620 can record at levels way beyond current broadcast quality - I record at 2+ and I cant
tell the difference between LIVE recording - If you 'think' you can, i'll give you my house, my car
and my boat - Have you ever seen one?
...didaa....didaaa..didaa.....ever heard the phrase "there's lies...there's damned lies...then there's
'statistics'....'statistics tell whatever fairy story they want to tell...did you know - Drunk Drivers
cause less than 10% of all motor car accidents - so 'statistically' we should take everyone else off
the road and let the drunks get on with it
Philips is also the only major producer to cram 8 hrs of old VHS archive onto one DVD
prolly because DVD-R is an aging pc-dvd format - and Philips considered there's still a lot of aging
PC's still in use - but they dont consider it has much mileage left in home-entertainment
never been an issue for me - just because Philips sell a 100 machines to every single panawassaname -
they will get proportionally more complains/failures - i think were back to 'statistics' again
because it has free EPG is a good enough reason in it's own right
how about a free EPG?
how about alllllll of your above 'niggles' being wiped out with the very next f/ware upgrade?
more than that - they are here right now - on the 720 - and without one you have little more a H/Drive
(£60 from local PC shop)
comparing it to non-EPG hard drive is like comparing an automatic washing machine with a twin-tub -
there is no comparison
even more evidence that you know not what you say (you prolly read something somewhere) - i've got one
& it's perfect - whilst Guidplus say it's updated between 2-6 am each night - it is 'in fact', also
updated whilst-you-watch - and regard reliabilty, it 'is' more upto date than your daily paper (which
availed itsself to me, only last week), it supports PDC (program changes - which is excellent) - it's
easy to program, it refers to programs by "Name", which in turn is fed down to > HDD archive > Tuner >
LED display > OSD > DVD archive > DVD disk Manager - and it's not missed a schedule yet - and it's
self-updating (future-proof) - any 'speculations' you have on the future of Guide-Plus are no more
than that - Speculation - which falls into the realms of woulda, shoulda, coulda
again you aren't in a position to tell anything close to the truth about this (court would judge it hear-say and insubmissable)
facts are Philips include I/R dongle which can control anything from STB to electric curtains (to automatically close before viewing) - Philips UK tech team are crap (prolly still figuring out what a DVD is), they told me that the 720 is NOT compatable with my STB ( of which there is over 1/2 million in UK) - disregarding them totally (with support for near 500 STB's - list updated via Guideplus) - i found my STB on my own and it works fine
I think anyone buying HDD without EPG needs their head testing (my PC will do infinately more)
Does EPG driven recording overcome the Early Start / Late Finish problem?
Yesterday evening the Poirot repeat on ITV3 started about two mins early and ended 2 - or 3 mins late....
From what I've heard and read all over the internet, this is PROBABLY the worse one of the lot. I would hate to think that I have to record at the right setting to start with otherwise I'd be stuck with that. Sometimes everyone makes a mistake and I consider it essential to be able to re-encode.
LOL!!! Your going to love your Philips when Guideplus closes down!
Which goes to re-enforce what I have been sayign all along - low end users love Philips. Nobody else does these days...
Have you actually used your machine yet or is it still in the box? Or don't you know what a playlist is? The Philips does not have Playlist functionality.
Again you have totally missed the point.
Because clearly you have been using the low quality modes. Try recording something 2hrs long in M1 quality and try and fit that to a single DVDR.
...and I'm going to stop there. It's fairly obvious you haven't actually got to grips with your machine yet. For the benefit of other users I would strongly urge everyone to learn from Jethro's mistake - do some research before you buy. Learn about the features available before you buy. And don't do what numerous Philips users have done on this forum before - buy first and then post here trying to justify your decision. Even better - go to a store and compare a Philips HDD/DVDR and a Panasonic/Sony/Pioneer/Toshiba.
A/ if it's terrestrial program it supports PDC (programming changes)
B/ You can add margin times (upto 30mins)
What a prize prat you are - getting to insults are we. You're not talking to a 16 year old but a 47 year old who has been in this game for many years. You think I can't set up a simple DVD Recorder? I cannot vouch for the 6hr PQ on a 720 but the 6 hr PQ on a DVDR70 and 75 are superior to the Pioneer 420 and Panasonic E50 I had. My Pioneer 420 is setup correctly, I even got a mate round who does this for a living and he said my settings are fine. The shop where he works doesn't sell Philips recorders but after I showed him the PQ of the DVDR75 he's wondering why. He too could see the major difference between the 6 hr PQ of the Philips and Pioneer machines. I'll never record on the fine modes so I can't judge. However, the 420 will do me until an all singing all dancing +R/RW machine comes out.
Based on your posts - then, frankly, yes.
mine is set to 2+ (2.5 hours per DVD)
i'm interested what other settings might you consider using & why?
OK, Mr Expert, what have I done wrong?
If you're reading my other posts its because the Pioneer has a crap PQ and so I set about to correct it. I did have a lead that was close to a power supply and it did improve the PQ dramatically but its still nowhere near the PQ of the Philips. I have had a real expert around who has verified my setup. Pray tell oh holy one what am I still doing wrong.
In fact don't answer. You are just trolling.
There must be some real thick people on here JethroUK. Why would anybody want to record a 2.5 hr film in 1 hr mode and then destroy the quality by encoding it in 2.5 hr mode so it will fit on a disk ? Wouldn't the likes of the perfect Rasczak be better spreading his 1 hr PQ over 3 DVD's? Those people with a brain cell would record it in the mode you need it in straight away. Mind you I've been doing this for about 3 years so I'm used to calculating those times.
You wish - but if you never have a dream - you'll never have a dream come true - guffawwwww
I'm bit disappointed to see you've run out of ammunition already
Noooooo - I've made it irellevant - that's totally different
Low quality doesn't exist on my machine (yours maybe - i haven't seen it - but the O/P told me alll i need to know - 2.5 compression on 720 is indistinguishable from LIVE TV - And if you're suggesting you can lay a 2 hour long film on 1 DVD in above broadcast quality then it's a lie - and i shall consider your other 'opinions' with equal contempt
I mostly use FR mode so that things fit onto the DVD with the best possible quality. I've also recorded some stuff at top quality onto the HDD, but want to store it in SP mode (2 hour) on a DVD - that's why I sometimes need to re-encode.
If you'd been on these forums for more than 2 weeks you would know that Rasczaks knowledge of DVD recorders is virtually 2nd to none, and he has helped countless people sort their problems out, so I suggest you never accuse him of trolling. He has also owned and used more DVD recorders than us lot put together I think.
I've owned virtually every major guitar under the sun including Gibson Les Pauls, Fender Stratocasters, Gibson SG's, PRS, Yamaha SG2000's etc etc but it doesn't make me Jimmy Page.
Racksack seems incapable of reading. I have the two machines in front of me as I type and the Philips has got a better picture on the 6 hr mode. He can scream as much as he wants but I can see it. He then accuses me of not setting it up right - its foolproof. Theres nothing to setup. Because others on these forums told me it needs tweaking (it might have been Rucksack) I decided to get an expert in. He has seen the difference but Ricksuck won't have it. He may have helped many people on here but when a person can't see through his own ego then its a sad day.
I do believe you've joined this forum just to wind people up to be honest. There's no need for personal name calling
I'm not quite sure 'thick' is the right description - because they seem to have the maths right:
Best Value = Price / How Many Buttons it Has
but then again - anyone using this formula is bananas
anyhoo - i'm gonna click a button & spend the next 90 mins watching 1st part of "Children of Dune" - whilst the panamawhachamacallit owners spend the same time counting buttons, or try and find it somewhere on their HD - or whatever it is gets them off
4 day ban for JethroUK for being unnecessarily aggressive.
You may have a point to make but you demonstrate exactly the wrong way to make it. This is a friendly forum and if you disagree with someone you do not go off on a rant.
1 week ban for dmpoole. Insults like that are not welcome here. Particularly not childish ones.
More of this kind of stuff and the bans will be even longer.
It may be that Jethro and Poole have joined purely to be completely stupid intentionally,but assuming they haven't.......
Their recent joining dates may point to them only just starting in the world of HDD,there is no other reason for them to come out with such rubbish.
The Philips has an EPG-thats it one advantage.The need for re-encoding is obvious to anyone who uses such equipment.
You are right about one thing.-RW needing finalisation.Its a real pain sitting there for one minute while it does it.
But ultimately,anyone stupid enough to use the 6 hour mode on a regular basis should still be on vhs.DVD is all about quality-not 6 hours on single disc.
Maybe when these 2 jokers have used HDD for a while they may realise what tosh they are talking
When I joined earlier last week, I didn't know my arse from my elbow in terms of DVD recording.
Now I do know the difference, I just don't know what each does!!
One person posting in this thread has been of enormous help (no names.. no need, you'll know who he is anyway!)
I'm a little stunned that folk can get so worked up about stuff like this! Go kick a cat or something... long walks etc,
but leave it off on a great forum like this, some of us are having fun!! (And learning a lot as we go
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