1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Philips HDRW720 - IMPORTANT, please read

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by Rebecca, Oct 20, 2004.

  1. Rebecca

    Rebecca
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Some of you may remember a recent thread in this forum, posted by me, stating the reasons why I was happy with the Philips HDRW720.
    Yesterday, an unpleasant event happened, that I would like to share with you. The machine's main fan started to make an incredibly high noise, and after some minutes the whole system crashed, losing all the editing work I had being doing. Also, when I tried to switch it on, the HDD used to fail. This operation was repeated many times with the same result. Therefore, I quickly called Philips Technical Support, with this result:

    1) They already knew about this problem. They have detected a failure on some components during the manufacturing process, and most of the units have this problem.
    2) They told me that the estimated repair time was around 5-6 weeks (!!) because they did not have good spare components (they did not specify) and because their local technicians had not being properly trained on this model (since it was too new, according to them).
    3) They refused to exchange my unit for a new one. They also refused to provide me a temporary replacement while the problem was solved (they only do this with big plasma TV's).

    As a result, I have put a complaint and have commented the problem to the store, and they are kindly going to exchange my unit for another brand, if I wish so (I bought the Philips 6 weeks ago).

    I want to state that I was happy with the functionality the Philips provided. I know it is limited, but I really did not need more. But what I cannot stand is the bad customer service, with a complete lack of commitment to solve the problem.

    Therefore, not to make 2 consecutive errors, which brand should I get, TOSHIBA or PIONEER? I mainly want the unit to archive many many old VHS tapes. I also read here that the new SONY cannot divide titles and so on, but would it fit in my reduced set of requirements?

    Kisses.
    Rebecca. ;)
     
  2. alicat

    alicat
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2004
    Messages:
    92
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    You want to drop in here:

    http://www.dvdplusrw.org/cgi/forum/ikonboard.cgi?;act=SF;f=4

    I am in the process of swaping from +R to -R :hiya:

    Their forum is full of faults and errors by mainly Philips machines, but here the only problems seem to be how to get a machine cheaper and who is the best supplier. :clap:

    I believe that this is a much "happier" forum with more sensible people on it. If you take a look at some of the posters over there, you will find 2 regular contributers that seem to be banging away on their keyboards all day (trying to sort out peoples problems)! :suicide:

    I for one am quite happy to "cross the water" into the -R camp :smashin:

    P.S. I am between the Tosh xs32 and the Pioneer 520H too.

    P.S>S. this is the best one, poor old phellings!!!!!!!!!!!

    http://www.dvdplusrw.org/cgi/forum/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=4;t=11266
     
  3. Neville Street

    Neville Street
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2004
    Messages:
    290
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +4
    Tosh is the way to go. Read the review thread and other Tosh related threads. THey take a bit of wading through but are full of useful info. I trawled this and other forums before buying early in the summer. I have not been disappointed.

    The only niggles I have are:

    - I think the machine may be a bit fussy about media. I don't make many DVD's and the Samsung freebies I was given by Richer Sounds didn't work well for people I lent stuff too. The Datawrite Grey 8x that I bought at blankdiscshop are working fine.
    - I am finding some disks work in one of my other machines one day, and then not the next, which is not ideal.
    - some users are reporting a compatibility issue due to the file structure it uses (specifically the absence of an AUDIO_TS). But overall, having made a few and lent them to various folks I have had none that don't work, just some that have sections that "jump" on others machines.
    - there seems to be an issue with RF interference when signals are poor. It is reported elsewhere on the forum. My machine suffers from it, but I have a poor signal. I am recording 99% of stuff from Sky+ (and 100% of stuff I want to archive) so it is not an issue for me.

    You should both go out and get a Tosh, you'll pay about £50 less than I did too ;)
     
  4. phelings

    phelings
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2003
    Messages:
    1,025
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Ratings:
    +0
    Thanks for the link.I am famous at last.
    I would go for the Toshiba aswell.Someone posted it was out at £300.Bargain.Alicat,your post is unclear.Are you saying this forum is better or worse than the +RW one?
     
  5. alicat

    alicat
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2004
    Messages:
    92
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    BETTER. a lot better. No talk of machines dying, firmware upgrades Philips customer non-service etc here!.

    As I said, the only issue seems to be where you can get a machine cheapest!!

    It's a lot more refreshing over here!! :clap: :smashin:

    AL
     
  6. phelings

    phelings
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2003
    Messages:
    1,025
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Ratings:
    +0
  7. PhilipL

    PhilipL
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    3,787
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +421
    Hi Phelings

    Laugh, you will get flamed to death for posting that. They are a funny lot, blinkered by Philip's marketing and really believing their own rhetoric :) Most posts I post in other forums end up copied in there one way or another, so they can flame me and convince each other it isn’t true in a safe environment, it always makes me smile. The owner of the website even put up a page once with lots of (and out of context but still funny) snippets of my posts to try and discredit anything I was saying, like a religious cult leader to his followers, I still crack up at that even today.

    I used to post about Philip's questionable quality and that the + format not being all the marketing cracks it up to be, and those posts are all still valid some 3 years on! It is incredible that Philips are not able to make decent hardware with the +RW format, their hard-drive recorder doesn't even allow for re-encoding to a DVD disc that all DVD- based hardware has allowed since the day a hard-drive shipped in one. If Philips cannot make decent hardware and struggle to include what is standard functionality then they have serious problems. Still maybe in a firmware update?

    I like the many posts that try and imply that "+RW is winning the format wars" because you can by a Goodmans +RW DVD recorder for 40p a week from the Great Universal catalogue, the chances are you will still be paying 40p a week long after the recorder went to the scrape yard :laugh:

    Regards

    Philip
     
  8. mildred

    mildred
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Loads of machines dying on this forum, and most of them are Toshiba or Panasonic.
    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152939

    Of course you won't find many good posts about Philips DVD recorders here, because everyone is so pro-Panasonic :devil: Even though it it a far inferior system.
     
  9. phelings

    phelings
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2003
    Messages:
    1,025
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Ratings:
    +0
    I'm not pro panasonic at all.
    I think if the volume of dodgy Toshiba and Panasonic recorders on this forum is representative of the whole,they are doing well.
    That +RW forum is packed with threads about +RW problems on different models from the entire range from start to present.
    Its obvious that Philips problems are nowhere near solved
     
  10. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,131
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Argyll
    Ratings:
    +2,203
    And you don't wonder why? Perhaps because everything we say is correct? Perhaps they really are featureless and unreliable? I have never understood 'fans' of any one brand: surely you should just buy the best? And in the DVD recorder market that is not Philips!

    It's not because people are pro-Panasonic, pro-Toshiba, pro-Sony etc - it's just because EVERY other major brand of machine is so much better. Even to the pro-Philips observer such as Mildred the very presence of this thread indicates there is some fundamental problem. Still I admire your loyalty to a brand that cares nothing for their consumers and is ultimately giving them a second rate service/product. Bottomline though is if you want to be a victim then be one - but don't expect many users to follow you.
     
  11. phelings

    phelings
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2003
    Messages:
    1,025
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Ratings:
    +0
    Rasczak,you even get a mention over there.Please register-we could have so much fun.I've just been called an "ignorant troll" for dissing DVD+.Thats as highbrow as it gets over there.
    Its a funny site.Its like a little haven for sad DVD+ diehards who know the format is crap,and that Philips machines are underspecified and unreliable,but they don't want to admit it.There are endless threads about how to solve problems on one machine or another.There are those admitting they are on their 3rd laser ,but still swearing undying allegiance.
    Check out IMkidd-I believe its our old friend Primitive under yet another name.There is also some guy with over 9000 posts who reckons DVD+ editing(what editing)is superior to other formats,and that there is a better choice of machines with DVD+.
    Unfortunately,with that kind of crap being taken as gospel there is little or no hope of reasoning with them.Alicat(see above)simply posted a comment saying he was deserting DVD+ for DVD- and he was ridiculed.I am awaiting a reply to my request for a link to a post or thread where DVD+ is criticised and the replies are sensible.I am not holding my breath
     
  12. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,131
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Argyll
    Ratings:
    +2,203
    Not being funny but I am universally hated on some sites - I get about to 100 e-mails a day with all sorts of bad language/sexual references etc. The Police have even been involved on a few occasions as I have actually received threats of physical abuse. Why do people bother?

    What can you do to help such people? They are either employed by Philips or just love the company. The fact is if someone is willing to accept that level of service and quality then nothing anyone is going to say is going to make a blind bit of difference. If any brand of kit went wrong on me twice I would have no hestitation in dumping faster than you shake a stick at. As I said above I really can't understand inexplicable brand loyalty.
     
  13. alicat

    alicat
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2004
    Messages:
    92
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    Mildred: are you Loobster in disguise??

    great football song but you bash the "keyboard" too much to do footy don't you???

    CHELSEA!! :clap:

    :offtopic: I know but..................
     
  14. rogerh

    rogerh
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    406
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Maidstone
    Ratings:
    +10
    This seems to have developed into a personality clash. :offtopic:
    The original post was (in my view) a helpful warning about the continued unreliability of the latest Philips machines.
    I visited my local "Sevenoaks Hi-fi" branch and was told that they no longer deal with Philips as every DVD recorder of theirs they sold had problems and Philips suport is hopeless. Whilst I appreciate that 7Oaks may have other reasons for not selling the Philips it seems to confirm the general view.
    They also told me they don't sell Sony now as they can't get reliable supplies due to Sony's policy of importing machines in batches and suppling Sony Centres first. Seems a bit thin to me! But it does show how retailers influence the market.
    They did have the Pioneer in stock and were very enthusiastic at a price of £650.
    If people don't like this forum, why do they post onto it?
    So far I have found entries here to be helpful and friendly and I welcome the oportunity for shared experience/advice/comment.
    There will always be dedicated fans for a particular piece of kit (eg TIVO).
    And one last word, I have a Philips 32PW9556 TV which is excellent and has never given any trouble since I bought it in October 2001.
    :hiya:
     
  15. phelings

    phelings
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2003
    Messages:
    1,025
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Ratings:
    +0
    Its a good idea to have an ongoing Philips thread whre you can discuss the merits or otherwise of the format/company.
    It is also relevant for links to be posted to what you would expect to be a definitive site about +RW.Unfortunately,as you can see from the site it simply a site for + lovers to make out.Any criticism of the format is met with ridicule and hostility.
    I never used the site myself until Alicat linked to a thread where some disgruntled Digital Spy people were slagging me off.They knew I would have some support on DS,and felt that going to the +lovers site was a good place to hide.So they slag you off behind your back.Gutless.
    Loobster is typical of the idiots who,when they fail to win an argument,simply place you on their ignore list.
    But if you read some of the downright rubbish spouted on that site,its only fair that those lies have to be corrected.As its not really possible on the +RW site,it has to be done here(or DS).
    And Rasczak,are these 100 emails from disgruntled DVD+ lovers?Who are they from?What other forums are you on?Do you use the same name?
     
  16. dude1971

    dude1971
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Rasczak

    100+ emails a day abusing you? And all because you advise people not to buy a Philips DVD recorder? You should get 100 emails thanking you mate!

    Regards

    The Dude
     
  17. CLH

    CLH
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2002
    Messages:
    2,126
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Ratings:
    +21
    Rebecca,

    I can't help you on your choice but on the legal points I can say this:

    Your supplier (as they have agreed to do) is bound by the Sale of Goods Act.

    A new part of that was brought in in 2002. It's Section 48A and it provides that where goods have a fault at the point of purchase then you can effectively choose your own remedy:

    1. REfund
    2. Replacement
    3. Repair

    etc

    Any goods which exhibit a fault within 6 months of purchase are automatically assumed to be faulty at sale UNLESS the manufacturer can prove otherwise.

    The primary remedy is against the supplier.

    I'm glad that they at least want to sort it out!
     
  18. nunew33

    nunew33
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2002
    Messages:
    1,735
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Location:
    Lytham St Annes, where people are put out to grass
    Ratings:
    +2
    Pehelings. I have to say your posts on the other forums were juvenile, childish and purile.


    Keep it up. I havent laughed so much in ages.

    I wont fight your corner for you, as you do that very well, but if the +RW support group send round the lads to give you a beating, I'll hold your coat for you.
     
  19. alicat

    alicat
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2004
    Messages:
    92
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    Me too. It's a great laugh. Don't really need an XS32 to record comedy now!
     
  20. PhilipL

    PhilipL
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    3,787
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +421
    Hi

    Just to add I too have received hate emails on addresses only used to sign up to forums where "somehow" even when the address was hidden as private on the forum board it had become known! The emails could be quite nasty, and were always linking to posts I made on another forum where I would be dissolving some technical or marketing propaganda about +RW.

    The DVDPlusRW forum has become nothing more than a location for a cult, and the pedantic and rude approach by the cult members to any post that dares to challenge their viewpoint has made it a very hostile place.

    Regards

    Philip
     
  21. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,131
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Argyll
    Ratings:
    +2,203
    Yeap - my inbox is filled with trash from a handful of zealouts. I get signed up for all sorts of mailing lists, get abusive hate mail. To be honest it's water off a ducks back - I have a single e-mail account for forum use and if people want to spam it then that is fine - most is filtered out by software these days anyway. It just means I sometimes miss requests for help that get e-mailed to me.

    Indeed Philip. Three years of DVD recorders in the UK has debunked much of the + propaganda that was pushed out so intensively when the format first launched. And coupled with three years of troublesome/poor quality machines this has left the Philips band a frustrated mob. :( And of course no blame can be attached to Philips - no instead "it's all the fault of the 'minus' brigade" because we dare to say you can buy functional and reliable machines :rolleyes:
     
  22. PhilipL

    PhilipL
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    3,787
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +421
    Hi

    Well us 'minus' bridgade are nothing more than disgruntled employees of Philips or work for the DVD Forum, so we wouldn't say anything good about the +RW format would we? That is how I find the cult members normally justify and tame any negative comments about the +RW format, the number of times that has been accused of me!

    Regards

    Philip
     
  23. phelings

    phelings
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2003
    Messages:
    1,025
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Ratings:
    +0
    Does that ABC plonker run the +RW site,or is he just addicted.9000 posts!!Come on...
    When I first visited it a couple of years ago,I thought it was some kind of "official" site backed up by Philips.If it is not-who runs it?
     
  24. phelings

    phelings
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2003
    Messages:
    1,025
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Ratings:
    +0
    http://www.dvdplusrw.org/Article.asp?mid=0&sid=3&aid=11

    Read this page.Note the comments on "complex unfinalising"(1 minute) .If this passes for official information its no wonder the users of this silly website are brainwashed.
    Talk about twisting words to suit your own agenda
     
  25. OARDVD

    OARDVD
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2003
    Messages:
    241
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Deepest Hertfordshire
    Ratings:
    +0
    How could you be so cynical Phelings? :laugh:

    Well it’s nominally run by some character called ‘Jorg’ who, naturally, has absolutely no connection to Philips & isn’t an employee or anything like that. :rolleyes:

    Funny thing is he doesn’t seem to frequent his own site much these days and the members have noted that it seems to be running on automatic pilot a lot. He occasionally pops up but he seems to have lost his enthusiasm for the site.

    http://www.dvdplusrw.org/cgi/forum/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=8;t=10938;hl=jorg

    Maybe he’s busy working on the BluRayPlus.org site which will promote Philips BluRayPlus as being much better than the other companies’ versions put together.

    Personally I’ve got a theory that the current Jorg is an imposter and that the original Jorg has been pulled by the big P for setting up a site which scores such an own goal for the + format by having so many threads about problems.
     
  26. alicat

    alicat
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2004
    Messages:
    92
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hmmmm..... the travel and food thing appeals to me
     
  27. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,131
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Argyll
    Ratings:
    +2,203
    Perhaps his Philips DVD Recorder broke.
     
  28. PhilipL

    PhilipL
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    3,787
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +421
    Hi

    Jorg and I have had many discussions, the guy was/is incredible with his stance on +RW, believing the marketing rubbish fed to him and adding his own, and not having the openness to listen to anyone else that dare suggest he was wrong. One popular sermon from Jorg was that DVD-RW had no lossless-linking, apart from some sort of buffer-underrun, so could never support the +VR format to allow (basic) editing and remain compatible with the DVD Video format, hence the invention of DVD-VR mode.

    However when software came about that supported +VR mode on DVD-RW, where DVD-RW was suddenly able to have menus updated, extra video appended and editing, all on the disc without having to reformat or even un-finalise or re-finalise, just like +RW, he responded with his usual "marketing" speak, still spouting the same rubbish, with his “supporters” also finding it very hard to believe and I was trolled immediately.

    It took me a good few posts for a few of his supporters (and they had to try the method themselves) to be believed, obviously such a shock that the information they took as gospel was actually very questionable marketing rubbish.

    I have also find it astounding how many first posts I achieve from brand new members defending the +RW format! An example in the thread below. Perhaps I should be flattered that my posts on the subject are read and encourage people to join up and make their first post in reply to me, however I wonder who they actually are?

    See: http://www.dvdplusrw.org/cgi/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=3;t=4914; it is long but sums up the whole mentality of the few people that now regularly frequent the place.

    The poster ABC appears to be extremely pedantic, rude, and often downright unhelpful, across the board, not just with people who are negative about +RW related hardware but positive as well. In a moderated forum he wouldn’t be allowed to continue to post in this manner for long as he has.

    Jorg the site owner was also a big supporter of Philips CD-i format.

    I'd put money on it!! He is probably so embarrassed he ever promoted the things now he is on his 4th or 5th model and still waiting for a firmware update to get the timer working correctly :zonked:

    Regards

    Philip
     
  29. OARDVD

    OARDVD
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2003
    Messages:
    241
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Deepest Hertfordshire
    Ratings:
    +0
    Philip, I was wondering why all your posts on the Videohelp forums have been withdrawn. Did you have a run in with the mods or something?
     
  30. PhilipL

    PhilipL
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    3,787
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +421
    Hi

    Not a run in as such just that they were completely unhelpful, it relates in part to my mention before of hate emails. I decided it was best to just stop using the forum altogether if there was no help in stopping abuse, I wasn't worried about the posts I had put there already, however a friend suggested (who does a lot with websites and scripting) that they wouldn't mind coming up with a script to automate removing them all, I said go on then, and it was done before I gave it any serious consideration.

    I haven't bothered posting there since.

    Regards

    Philip
     

Share This Page

Loading...