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Philips 9617/9527 pixel+ picture auto format question

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by Bonzaimaster, Oct 1, 2002.

  1. Bonzaimaster

    Bonzaimaster
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    I've just taken delivery of my new p+ 32PW9527. I'm very pleased with the picture but I'm not sure if the picture autoformat is working the way it should be. I'm using it with Sky+ (the screen size on the system setup on the Sky box is set to 16:9).

    I'd like the picture format to auto switch from 4:3 or 16:9 depending on the original broadcast format and expected the TV to use the SCART signal (from the pin that is set with a widescreen signal is being braodcast) to do so.

    On my old Sony, I just left to format to be 4:3 and picture format automatically switched to widescreen when a 16:9 broadcast or DVD was detected.

    Please tell me that this is possible with the Philips?
     
  2. rct

    rct
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    Hopefully my posts here should help you out :) [substitute refs to Superzoom with 4:3]
     
  3. HowieC

    HowieC
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    I've had my 32PW9527 a couple of weeks now, and the autoformat switches between 16:9 and a 'fill the screen mode' ONLY. Unless I'm very much mistaken the info from rct re the 9617 does not seem to work on the 9527.
    I would much rather auto switching between 16:9 & 4:3 but it does not seem possible.
    If rct knows otherwise I'd be very interested to hear from him.
     
  4. rct

    rct
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    HowieC -

    try going to a pure 4:3 channel such as Sky News; manually selecting 4:3. Then wait for a moment (>5 secs) and press the aspect ratio button, watch the screen... if it says Picture Format 4:3, then press it quickly again, hopefully it should say picture format, automatic. Wait for 10 secs or so and then switch to BBC News 24. Try switching back to Sky News, it should switch to 4:3. I'd be surprised if it didn't.

    Having said that, if you're using SkyDigital, which the above procedure assumes you are, there have been reports of problems with widescreen signalling on the latest version of software 3.012/3.011.

    Hope it works for you. Maybe some users with 9527s could help you otherwise. :)
     
  5. Bonzaimaster

    Bonzaimaster
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    rct - thanks for your help.

    This problem is bugging me a lot. I still can't get the auto format switching to work. I have tried all the AV input on the tv as well. I think my Sky+ software must be OK because it works on the Sony that the Philips replaced.

    In your suggestions in the other thread, you recommended switching off Automatic Format in the install menu. The 9527 does not seem to have this option. Where in the setup is it on the 9617?

    Please confirm for me that on the 9617 you can set the TV up so that it will automatically switch between 4:3 and 16:9 depending on the material being viewed.

    If it does not work in the 9527, I would consider this to be a serious bug in the software. At the moment I can only get it to swtich between Autoformat and 4:3. Autoformat does it's best to fill the screen but still misses information - very annoying indeed.

    It was a basic requirement for me when buying a new TV but I assumed that as my 3 year old Sony already does it, surely all the high end newer sets would support this functionality.

    I intend to call Philips tomorrow to complain.
     
  6. rct

    rct
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    Sorry about possibly being confusing with the other thread... the guy there *wanted* the screen filled all the time.

    Try the procedure shown in my reply to HowieC once again... you never know it might just work this time.

    The 9617 can autoformat perfectly between 16:9 and 4:3 and as you mentioned you have Sky+ the software bit isn't even an issue as I have Sky+ and there aren't any probs there.

    Two other possibilities... (sorry if I'm patronising you) In the Sky+ Picture settings, make sure it is set to 16:9 and that SCART control is on and output is RGB. Also try another SCART lead, I read somewhere that certain Sony's switch without Pin 8 signalling, so if your Pin 8 wasn't connected, you wouldn't have noticed until you got the Philips.

    You won't get it to do any automatic switching if you turn off Auto format... on the 9617 this is located in the "install" menu which you can get in to by pressing the two top left buttons under the remote's flap together.

    You're unlikely to get much joy calling Philips, they really aren't usually very "helpful". If it doesn't work out, I suggest you try and either get it swapped (for another one or a 9527) or get an "engineer" to visit :rolleyes:

    I really do hope you can get this sorted, you are right in expecting a set to be able to autoswitch between 16:9 and 4:3.

    Good luck with it all ;)
     
  7. Bonzaimaster

    Bonzaimaster
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    My Sky+ box is setup to output 16:9, the RGB control set to ON and output set to RGB. I'm using high quality IXOS cables. I don't have any other scart cable to I can't test the PIN 8 theory at the moment.

    I just tried the procedure you recommended again but it still does not work I'm afraid.

    I think the menu system behaves differently on the 9527. When watching Sky News, I set the format to 4:3. If I wait and press the aspect ratio button again, it simply cycles to the next setting in the possible options in aspect ratios (which are Auto Format, Super Zoom, 4:3, Movie Expand 14:9, Movie Expand 16:9, Subtitle Zoom and Wide Screen). You mentioned that yours changes to Automatic mode. Is there a mode simply called 'Automatic' on the 9617 or are you refering to the 'Auto Format' that the 9527 has?

    What is the recommended way to get a 'engineer' in to have a look at it?

    HowieC - Are you having any luck with the suggestions?

    Thanks again.
     
  8. HowieC

    HowieC
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    Binesh.

    My 9527 behaves exactly the same as yours. I'm afraid rct has got it wrong for once.(He is usually right)
    There is no autoformat on the install menu, and autoswitching does exactly as you say.
    I had an old review tucked away, and the reviewer mentioned this.
    One advantage I find is that if you are playing a vhs in 14:9 it expands it quite well. Perhaps Philips are working on the basis of there being less and less 4:3

    rct Does the procedure you mention appear in the 9617 manual?
    I wonder what other differences there are??!!
    I have a friend of a friend who works for a Philips service agent i'll see if he can find out anything.
     
  9. rct

    rct
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    lol. Everything I was suggesting was based on the (rather huge) asumption that the 9527 and 9617 were identical apart from the lack of a SCART and DolbyDigital.

    The procedure I mention doesn't appear in the 9617 manual... when the TV was new, it tended to switch between 16:9 and Superzoom only. After a bit of fiddling the "procedure" is what I came up with.

    In the install menu on the 9617 there is an option called "Autoformat" which I leave "On" and when completing the "training" procedure the TV ends up in a mode called "Automatic" which takes care of all my switching properly. I really think it's a bit off if Philips have seen it fit to remove the feature on the 9527s. The TV should be able to handle all broadcast ratios!

    With the quality of engineers so varied, all I can suggest is that you explain the fact that you want to switch automatically between 16:9 and 4:3 and take it from there.

    Best of luck ;)
     
  10. Bonzaimaster

    Bonzaimaster
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    I just called Philips and the person I spoke to consulted the Product Engineer who confirmed that auto format switching is possible with the 9527. He seemed to think that if the TV was left in 4:3 and a widescreen broadcast was on, the aspect ratio would change automatically. This does not happen.

    He recommended that I should get the dealer to exchange the TV for me as it is faulty.

    Maybe it's a faulty batch? Can anyone else with a 9527 and Sky Digital please try the widescreen test?
     
  11. HowieC

    HowieC
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    My contact at a Philips service agent disagrees with your engineer at Philips. He says that format switching only works in autoformat mode and says that page 4 of the manual is correct when it says
    "Auto format makes the picture fill the screen as much as possible"
    Widescreen broadcasts will be OK everything else will be stretched.
    He is trying to get some feedback from philips as to whether this is a deliberate or accidental feature.
     
  12. Bonzaimaster

    Bonzaimaster
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    If it is a deliberate feature, I would consider it a major omission and would like to get a refund for the TV.

    Has anyone had any experience in trying to get a refund from Philips? I bought it from a Philips authorised agent (found from the Philips website) called KK Electronics in Edgeware Road, London. It was delivered on Tuesday.
     
  13. rct

    rct
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    Binesh, obviously first try and obtain a refund on the basis of the product having a rather major omission.

    If this doesn't work, if you bought the TV by telephone, mail order or internet then you have 7 working days to cancel your contract with them under distance selling regulations. The only thing with this approach though, is that you are liable for return carriage costs.

    Perhaps your retailer may be more amenable if you expressed the desire to exchange with another model rather than get a straight refund?

    If you can stretch to it budget-wise, get hold of a 9617, I'm sure you'll be happy :)

    Good luck with the refund etc.
     
  14. Bonzaimaster

    Bonzaimaster
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    rct - Thanks VERY much for your helpful advice.

    I am trying to initially get a refund or an exchange otherwise. I'll let you know how I get on.
     
  15. Bonzaimaster

    Bonzaimaster
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    A quick update. I have been talking to Philips (who, to my surprise have actually been very helpful and knowledgeable) and they confirmed that auto-switching (between 4:3 and 16:9) is possible on the 9527 and I must have a faulty set if it is not working.

    If anyone is interested in speaking to them, I called 0870 900 9070 (selecting option 1,3 on the phone routing system) and spoke Paul Alexander. He actually checked with the head office to confirm the functionality.

    I am in the process of getting a refund.

    Can anyone confirm that auto-switching is working on their own 9527?
     
  16. rct

    rct
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    Good to hear Binesh, although if I were you I'd wait until I actually *see* one that manages it before getting one again ;)

    I'm sure it'll work out in the end :)
     
  17. Bonzaimaster

    Bonzaimaster
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    HowieC - what are you going to do with your set?
     
  18. HowieC

    HowieC
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    Binesh

    I have just got off the phone to the friend of a friend who works for a Philips service agent. He has been investigating the w/s switching issue, and thinks that there may be more than one software version for the 9527. The version number is on the first line of the service menu, mine is EM5EU1-1.3_04031
    whats yours?
    He also says that the 9527 & 9617 with LGPhilips tubes have a problem if they are bounced. It appears that the scan coils can move fractionally causing unadjustable focus and/or geometry faults.
    He has an official enquiry in progress to Philips re the w/s switching, but thinks there is some confusion at Philips HQ.
    I've advised the dealer I got mine from of the situation, and he's happy to delay for a while.
     
  19. drummerboy

    drummerboy
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    HowieC
    that could explain why 3 out of 4 9527s I've looked at over the last week looked 'out of focus' (most noticeable on teletext), and the 4th wasn't much better.
    All these sets had a LG/Philips tube.
    Does this mean if you order one and it turns out to be sh**te, that it will be easier to get it swapped (seeing as how they know it is a problem).
    1 out of 4 definitely ain't very good odds though, is it?

    BTW, apologies for changing the subject !!
     
  20. HowieC

    HowieC
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    Drummerboy
    Not sure that Philips HQ are aware of the problem as yet. It appears that dealers and service agents have seen more than a few, but it takes awhile for HQ to admit to a problem.
    The tubes are manufactured in the UK, shipped to Belgium and then come back as complete sets, plenty of oportunity for bouncing. Its not clear yet whether its just a batch problem, I doubt it affects too many.
     
  21. drummerboy

    drummerboy
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    looked at yet another 9527 today at Currys in Milton Keynes and again it looked soft compared to 9617.
    Next to the 9527 was another Philips 100Hz set, a 9576 I think.
    With them both in 4:3 mode, the 9527 with P+ on and the other set with 100Hz digital scan switched off (you get more detail - sometimes at the expense of minor vertical judder on high contrast transitions) and with contrast, brightness & colour adjusted as close as poss on the two sets, there was very little difference between them. If anything the, the other set just edged it for picture, although the captions (snooker was on) looked slightly better on 9527.
    BTW - the reason I compared them in 4:3 was that you can only switch digital scan off in either 4:3 or widescreen mode (and then on certain sets)
    Anyway 9617 still looked noticeably better.
     
  22. core

    core
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    Hi ! I have to admit that my set is working perfectly on aspect ratios, 16:9 4:3 switch and all other formats. I even tested with Sony videocam input signal: First shot was taken 4:3, second 16:9 and then 4:3 again.. just perfect autosense on my 9527, also SAT and DVD widescreens ok.. and not any black bars anywhere.. not even on black screen.
     
  23. seanh

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    Binesh......

    If Philips have confirmed that it is a problem with your set or a batch of sets, are you still pursueing a refund instead of a replacement ???

    I have been watching this thread with interest and like the 9527 for the same reasons as yourself and the 9617 is out of my pricerange so it seemed ideal but for this niggling issue.

    Are you not happy/comfortable to stick with a 9527 ???

    Would really appreciate your feedback please on the 9527 and why you are still chosing to change.......
     
  24. Bonzaimaster

    Bonzaimaster
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    seanh - the problem is this. I don't really trust what I have been told by Philips. Until we can get conclusive proof that the 9527 does to auto-switching, if this feature is important to you (and I suggest that it should be to any AV 'purist'), then keep away from this set.

    Also I expected more from P+ having read all the hype. I compared the picture quality to my Sony DRC set before sending it back and I must agree with drummerboy when he says the picture looks soft (even having experimented with all the settings) and out of focus.

    Whilst there is this uncertainty about the 9527, and if you feel that you absolutely must have one, my advice would be to make your purchase from a retailer where you and can guarantee there will be no problem if you wish to return it - even if this means paying a small premium for it.
     
  25. seanh

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    Cheers Binesh,

    I don't really know whether i am glad or not that i have found this forum.

    We thought about P+ models first, then changed to Sony FQ75 (hahahahahahaha)/ LS60, then switched back to P+........................

    My head is spinning so much, that i really do not have a clue what to do now.

    The main thing about purchasing a TV is that ALL retailers reception is dire at best, making chosing a TV that much more difficult.

    I thought this was going to be an enjoyable experience....my first widescreen and then home cinema purchase............................................


    HOW WRONG I WAS !!!! :(
     
  26. seanh

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    Another quick question Binesh..............

    The 9527 and 9617s both come in 28" & 32".

    Are there reports of no autoswitching on the 28" version ????

    Surely this is the test as to whether it is a software problem.

    Also Binesh, i do not have Sky (yet), but what are the best channels to switch between to prove if the autoswitching is working ?

    I may try to get into a Philips dealer sometime this week..........
     
  27. Bonzaimaster

    Bonzaimaster
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    seanh - I have not heard/read any reports about the 28" version. I was hoping someone in this forum might help us.

    The best channels to test WS switching are Sky News (ch. 501 - 4:3) and BBC News 25 (ch. 507 - 16:9).

    Let us know how you get on.
     
  28. seanh

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    Binesh,

    I will locate a local dealer and give them a buzz and try to get it tested.

    What settings should the TV be on before hand or doesn't it matter.....


    I would also like them to demo some football as i'm now hearing that it is very blurry
     
  29. Bonzaimaster

    Bonzaimaster
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    My Sony is simply set to 4:3 mode and switches automatically to 16:9 when required. I was expecting the Philips to do the same.

    By the way, 'BBC New 25' should of course have been 'BBC New 24' in my last posting!
     
  30. seanh

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    I presumed that it should read News 24 !

    I will go and try Allders in Redditch at lunch time hopefully and let you know the outcome this afternoon.................

    Were you still happy with the 9527 picture ?

    Did you ever get any favourabe feedback from Philips ?
     

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