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Philips 9509 Experiences (& TiVo)

Discussion in 'TVs' started by alandpearson, Feb 2, 2005.

  1. alandpearson

    alandpearson
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    Thought I'd share my experiences with my 32pw9509 which I got 2 days ago.
    Initial impressions were awful. The picture was pixelated all over and dark scenes were very hard to watch.

    The good news is I got it sorted out.
    Heres the problems I had and how to sort them :
    1) If you are using composite SCART (I.e. set says EXT 1 CVBS) then you are in for a world of pain. This input quality is NOT good enough for this set. As the set auto detects if it is RGB or CVBS there is no way to force it to RGB like my old set. I had this problem as all my video is fed through my Arcam AVR250 AV receiver, but I hadn't connected up the RGB switch line to the scart (it's on a stereo jack plug, and wiring this to the correct SCART pins made the set recognise it was RGB and not composite.)
    This really improved the picture. Repeat : Composite sucks. Ensure your devices are set to RGB

    2) I use this set with a TIVO. I noticed a lot of pixalation in the picture when watching Live tv, that was not apparent using the Tivo bypass button (AUX on the Tivo remote).
    Tivo can be hacked to increase it's quality settings, and I did this to increase it's recording resolution to 720x480 with a higher bitrate. This made an AMAZING difference.
    Proceedure is here
    http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12736&page=3&pp=15
    In case that was blacked out, search google for dealdatabase forums then search the site for 'tivo changing resolution'

    3) The set in default settings really messes up the picture and tries too hard to improve it digitally. This results in a few problems with fast motion and pixelation. Take me advice, do NOT use pixel plus 2. Use MoviePlus or, in some cases use the 100Hz mode or double scan. This removes a lot of digital processing and is good for fast motion.
    I find MoviePlus pretty good.

    4) In addition, turn the sharpness to ZERO, and I found setting the DNR to Maximum really sorted out pixalation in darker areas. Dynamic contrast at medium helps too.

    All in all it took 2 days to get a decent picture on this set. It's still not too fond of text (i.e. credits on a movie), but its not bad. It takes a lot of playing to get a good picture, but when you get it, you'll be very happy. The detail and clarity has to be seen to be believed and it really excels on bright images. I'm now very happy and I consider myself highly picky over my TV images !

    Hope this helps some people out there !

    PS. only EXT1 & EXT3 are RGB capable.
     
  2. alandpearson

    alandpearson
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    Sorry, some small corrections, that made a BIG difference.
    This set now blows me away. Totally. On both normal TV & HQ stuff like DVD

    DISABLE ACTIVE CONTROL. This only serves to cause pixalation.
    Then watching the set with pixel plus 2 enabled is just ....... awesome !!

    I feel sorry for normal people who buy this set..... imagine Joe Normal trying to set this thing up. I bet they just suffer with a lousy picture forever... poor bugers.
     
  3. bazzae123

    bazzae123
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    alandpearson,

    Nice to see you like this set. I've had mine nealy a year now and I think its just great. Have you seen my post about problems with scart 3 socket?

    Bazza
     
  4. alandpearson

    alandpearson
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    Hi Bazza
    Yes saw your posts... you have my sympathy !
    I'm fortunate i only need EXT1, as my av amp does the necessary switching.

    The bad news though, is ... I'm not dissatisfied again....

    Came home tonight and the picture quality was awful... NOTHING had changed.
    Watched the thing all night, played with settings, but can't get decent picture again.
    Pixelation and general distortion all over.
    The DNR jacked up to 3 helps, but its' still far from crisp.
    I sent an email to the suppliers asking what to do and indicating I want an exchange if it can't be sorted out....
    The thing is driving me mad :-((((
     
  5. alandpearson

    alandpearson
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    Sorry that should read
    NOW dissatisfied again !
     
  6. stlic

    stlic
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    Alan although I've got the older 9308 model, no PP+2 :(, I also had a few problems regarding setting the set up to get the best picture. As you've already mention anything other than RGB and your asking for trouble. My personal settings, bearing in mind that I've got the 9308, is Contrast at 90, Brightness 38, Colour 54 and Sharpness 1. Dynamic Contrast and DNR on Maximum, no Tint (personal preference) active control is set to maximum for me.

    Make sre you've set the correct source for the input; it surprisingly makes a difference. On my set it's found in the Setup, Source part of the menu. I've got a scart switch which means I've set it to DVD as I primarily watch movies on this set. Sky image is acceptable but quality varies greatly between channels so you might have to get used to image artifacts. Im my mind the PP sets were made for DVD and I've kept mine purely for the fact that movies look terrific; particularly with DNM (of which I am a big advocate).

    Anyway I hope you can get a image that suits you. It's a funny thing to say but watching the set for a little while may make you notice the artifacts less and appreciate all that PP does more; atleast I noticed that. My mates are still a little skeptical but put on a DVD with a rapid city pan (Catwoman scene 2 is a good example) and they tend to shut up..:)

    PS: Watching the set from more then 2 meters distance is a must.
     
  7. bazzae123

    bazzae123
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    Can anybody please tell me what version software the 9509 is currently running.

    Bazza
     
  8. Maxi_TK96

    Maxi_TK96
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    If you use any pixel plus modes (movie plus, pixel plus, pixel plus 2) remember to keep the sharpness to 0 or 1. That will reduce pixelation. If you have a digital set top box then DNR doesn't have much of an effect; imho it's only useful if you use the internal tuner. Also as mentioned make sure that you are using RGB or s-video. Composite is not that bad but you'll get the best PQ is you use the two mentioned earlier.
     
  9. a2themutherk

    a2themutherk
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    Hi,
    Would having a top quality DVD player,say,Arcam FMJ,help to solve this pixelation problem or does it not make any difference?

    Cheers.
     
  10. alandpearson

    alandpearson
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    Thanks Guys for all your comments.
    I'll give it another go when I get home.
    Digital natural Motion... is this an automatic setting ? I can't find anywhere to turn it on/off, in the active control is the only place I can see it and it just gives a demo of it.
    I find when using pixel plus or movie plus that motion is difficult to watch (seems to miss frames ?) so I'm keen to find if DNM sorts this out.

    Thanks again for all your comments VERY helpful !!
     
  11. alandpearson

    alandpearson
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    Hi guys,
    As I said, thanks for all the help.

    I've decided to send this thing back. The picture just has too many flaws, which NOTHING in the settings correct. I've tried all the suggestions by the nice people in this thread and the other 9509 threads too, with no joy.

    The flaws are :
    1) PP2 : Doesn't like fast motion.... at all. Movieplus helps this to a certain extent though
    2) Pixelation is TERRIBLE. Watching bright images (ie things that are shot outside) gives a nice clear sharp image. Watching things shot under artifical light give pixelation all over, especially in dark areas of the image. This makes the TV unwatchable.

    This sets not all it's cracked up to be for normal viewing (i.e. Digital Sat) and yes I even took the Tivo ot of the equation and connected by Sky box directly to the TV.

    It just makes TV viewing a never ending nightmare where you are constantly seeing problems with the image.

    As I said, back it goes, and I'd like to thoroughly thank TV & Video driect for being so helpful and understanding. There take was 'if you're not happy, neither or we. Pick another TV!). Refreshing.

    And thanks again to everyone here.... although it didn't solve my problemit was more than helpful !!
     
  12. tuftus

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    alandpearson - so what are you going to get instead?

    I have 9509 which has to a certain extent some of the issues you have had, all though you have given me some ideas as to what to play around with...

    Just interested as to what you would consider over this set?

    Andy
     
  13. jonathan2708

    jonathan2708
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    Just thought I'd add my 2p's worth.

    I've had my 9509 now for about a month. My first impressions when I first opened the box and turned it on were 'oh my god what the hell have I bought!'. The picture was terrible, as was the sound quality. All images were pixelated, moving images blurry. All I could think was how can this TV have got such good reviews, and 'is this what cutting edge technology is?!'. The picture was twice as good on my Matsui 14" which I bought for £80 6 years ago.

    However, after much reading of this forum and even more tweaking and tinkering I am pleased to say I am now very happy with the set. I've just never known a TV to need so much setting up just to get the picture right. But once it is right, it's VERY right! :) Very clear pictures and great colours.

    I basically followed the same suggestions as in this thread, I would particularly reinforce how important an RGB connection is, forget anything else. I'm awaiting delivery of the Digital Video Essentials DVD which I hope will help me fine tune it even more. Also I have found, as have a couple of other owners here, that the picture definitely improves after a couple of weeks, it's as if the set settles down somehow.

    Jonathan (a very satisfied 9509 owner)
     
  14. tuftus

    tuftus
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    Jonathan2708 - Would you mind posting your settings for us all to compare?

    Cheers,

    Andy
     
  15. alandpearson

    alandpearson
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    Hi guys - me again....
    Right, this morning I had a gutful and went off to the local high street retailer to do some 'research' for my replacement set.
    Unfortunatley all the TVs there were getting fed from the same crappy signal, so I had no chance. I had though of the tosh p4...

    Anyway... I feel like an idiot... cos here is the update !!!!

    Had a friend round and he agreed the picture was bad.. we argued the toss and agreed to hook up my old set again.... Now at this point I'd like to say...... I NEVER remember seeing ANY issues on it......

    Hooked it up.. just moved the scart lead from the 9509 to it.... AND

    The picture WAS AWFUL ... WORSE THE 9509... I WAS GOBSMACKED !!!!!!!

    Now with the 9509.. I noticed sometimes the picture is amazing (as I said earlier) but sometimes its downright crap........

    Anyway as time passed today and we played, the TV came into it's own again tonight, watching CON AIR on C5 was pretty good.. no noticable problems....

    On DVD this set is pretty good but I see a lot of 'noise' in the background which I blamed it for.... but when it was hooked up to my old TV even worse...
    I'd like to point out that I use a decent Sony DVD player and not some crappy 39.99 job, although it is old.
    Anyway the 9509 reduces this noise in background a lot, although I still see it.

    BUT, the problem is, the set is TOO good for the source (by the look of it).
    My primary source is SKY, and some programs are good, some are crap.

    Another thing is the set seems to be getting better as time goes on, and it looks like, as others have noticed, it needs a 'settling in period'.

    I use top quality leads on this thing 'QED Squart series', so the weakest links are the DVD player & the satallite. I don't have terristial so I can't comment on that.

    The good news is the set is a LOT better than my old set (a Hitachi 28"), but it does make problems with the source image _more_ apparent.... i.e. the set is too good........

    So I don't know if upgrading the STB will help (upgrading the DVD player def. will, I going to borrow a real GOOD reference one from my local audio dealer to verify and I'll let you all know).

    I'll keep you all posted..... I'll be holding on to it for another few days just to be sure.... but the motto of this story is two things

    1) if you think the 9509 is not good, COMPARE it side by side with what you had previously (CHANGE nothing else) and make sure the TV you compare to is a similar size so you can SEE the issues.....

    2) **** IN = **** out..............

    I'll keep you all posted !

    PS I stand by my comments of keeping ACTIVE CONTROL OFF, DNR @ MAX and Pixel Plus2 being a waste of time for motion !!

    Wish me luck guys !!!
    Why is this SOOO DIFFICULT !!!!
     
  16. jonathan2708

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    Hi guys,

    I will post my 9509 settings in this thread when I get home tonight.

    I agree with Alan that this TV is basically TOO good for most signals i.e. it exposes the flaws in the signal, rather than having flaws itself. Playing a DVD from a good player (love my Sony RDR-GX300 by the way) gives stunning results. I too take my TV signal from a Sky box and the quality varies from channel to channel. Watched Blackadder on UK Gold last night which was ok but the picture wasn't particularly sharp. Then flicked onto Sky One for the new series of Nip/Tuck (cracking series) and wow - stunning clarity, sharp images, great colour.

    As I understand it Sky shove hundreds of channels (90% of which we don't watch!) down the cable which has a limited bandwidth and the result is that the quality suffers. Until this changes I don't think it matters how good your TV is, like Alan said **** IN = **** OUT.

    Jonathan
     
  17. bazzae123

    bazzae123
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    alandpearson,

    Hi M8,

    I know exactly what you mean. I've had my 9509 for nearly a year know. I did the first review on this set way back then. As I said previously my new SKY box doesn't work on Scart 3 socket and this is the second set I've had ( and before any body says, yes it works OK on scart 1,2). Anyway, Comet have arranged for a refund after this time (Good old Comet) and I've had to ask myself do I want another one of these sets or get something different. Now, back last year I tried over 12 different sets all at home and all the courtesy of comets 7 day returns policy and believe me there was nothing else that could match the 9509 for clarity. Yes it dose throw a wobbly on some occasions but all the 100Hz do to some extent or other. Believe me I tried all the 5 Star ratings and they all have there faults. The only other set I would consider is the loewe. Yes, I tired one of those but the wife didn't like the look of it and to be honest it didn't have the same amount of detail as the 9509 and the picture always looked a little blurred to me. So, back to the Philips. Like you say some broadcasts look rubbish but this is down to the transmission and cannot always be blamed on the set. This may shock a lot of people but I think the 9509 is very good on terrestrial broadcasts compared to a lot of other 100Hz set I looked at and I also think the football looks pretty good as well. One thing I tend to do is watch transmissions in their original format. If its broadcast in 4:3 then watch it in 4:3. Another thing, have you told the TV what inputs you have connected and set them accordingly? One last thing, I find having Active set to minimum, no DNR and dynamic contrast set to medium gives me a better picture but then again its all subjective. What I may like you might not. At the end of the day its down to you weather you can live with the set but I went through exactly the same as you. You may think the grass is greener on the other side but believe me it isn't. I think your already done one of the tests yourself by putting back your old set and comparing the difference. Its very easy to forget how good or bad one thing is against another. I remember last year I had a Toshiba PF2 sitting next to a Panny PD30 for a weekend trying to see what the best set was. The wife wasn't to pleased at all.

    Could you do me one a favour and let me know what version software you have in your set. Just type in 062596 then push the information button on your remote. If you could do this for me I'ld appreciate it.

    Bazza
     
  18. alandpearson

    alandpearson
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    Bazza,
    I'll find out the version when I get home.
    This is an '05 set (as it says so in the model num.. and I had to wait for a month to get it from supplier as were out of stock)

    Also do you know how to enter service menu to sort out geometry.. a horizontal line near bottom of screen can be seen to curve downwards as it reaches bottom right hand corner !

    I also got the lend of an Arcam DVD play (£700 worth, can't remember model) & a £300 Harman kardon DV22 player.

    I'm also wondering is it worth getting a newer sky box ?? Currently I've got a 3yr old Panasonic DU31....

    i'll post again later tonight !!
    Thanks again all.
     
  19. jonathan2708

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    Hello all,

    As promised here are my 9509 settings :

    Smart Picture - Personal
    Contrast - 56
    Brightness - 55
    Colour - 45
    Sharpness - 2
    Tint - Normal
    Digital Options - Pixel Plus 2 for cable / Movie Plus for DVD
    Dynamic Contrast - Off
    DNR - Medium
    Colour Enhancement - Off
    Picture Format - Widescreen

    Active Control : Off

    Sound:-

    Smart Sound - Personal
    120hz - 4
    500hz - 7
    1.5khz - 11
    5khz - 12
    10khz - 11


    My software version is as follows :

    Rom version : Aug 25 2004 EM53EU_1.5_07051
    Fbx version : 310431706640

    Can anybody tell me how this version compares - does anybody have a newer version?

    Jonathan
     
  20. alandpearson

    alandpearson
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    Guys
    The THING is going back.
    Two things are now VERY apparent EVEN with an ARCAM £700 DVD player (borrowed !)

    1) The geometry is off (horizontal lines slope towards the bottom right.... never noticed it before.. think it has just happened in the past few days)
    2) I get a ghost effect on ALL sources with movieplus / pixelplus2 / doublescan on (never noticed before either) and DNR off

    The set is faulty ! So it's going back and I'm asking for another 9509, as I really believe when this set is good, it is GOOD !!!

    Again, I'll keep you all posted.
    Bazza
    You aren't going to like me. I forgot to get the s/w version before I boxed it up !!
    With any luck I'll have another one in a week or so, so I'll post on this thread.
    If it helps the model number of the TV was
    32pw9509/05
    which I presume means manufactured in 2005 ?!

    I'll keep you all posted !!!
    It's such a shame cos I know it CAN give a top picture !!!!

    Hope I don't go thru 9 of these like bazza !!
     
  21. Maxi_TK96

    Maxi_TK96
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    1) As as far CRT tellys go I wish you a very good luck trying to find a unit which doesn't have a problem with geometry atleast to some agree. Of all of the televisions I have had (Philips 36PW9525, 36PW9527, Sony KV36-HQ100, Philips 36PW9618) only a Sony set has had a near perfect geometry but that was just about the only good thing with that particular set.

    2) If it features some sort of motion compensation technology (most 100hz sets do, 100hz digital scan doesn't count) you will be seeing ghosting in the near future too. Unless television makes suddenly improve their programming solutions concerning motion compensation or get faster processors this problem will not go away.
     
  22. bazzae123

    bazzae123
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    alandpearson,

    Sorry to hear your problems. All I can say is don't get to hung up over the Geometry. Your find all 32" sets have problems with this to some extent. These can usually be shorted out in the service menu. Out of all the TV's I tried a must say the 9509 was one of the better ones straight out of the box. Anyway, My situation has now changed a bit. With the need to put my mind at rest on whether I made the right decision or not I've decided to order a Loewe Nimos on the understanding if I don't like it then its straight back to the 9509. The wife's giving me those "Oh no not again" eyes but I need to this for my own sanity. Well, its on order but no delivery date as yet but I let you know how I get on.

    Bazza
     
  23. alandpearson

    alandpearson
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    Thanks Bazza
    Had a hell of a day. Tv being exchanged for another one.
    Nearly tempted by a Pioneer HD ready plasma.. forget model, but 3K
    To be honest though, the image on the 9509 was far better for 90% of the viewing I do today....
    Hope I get a good one !
     
  24. Gernot

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    Hello Alandpearson !

    The Item number 32PW9509/05 means not that the TV is produced in the year 2005.

    ...../05 is for the country . e.g. ...../12 is for Austria, Germany etc.

    Greetings from Austria, Gernot.
     
  25. alandpearson

    alandpearson
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    Hi all
    New 9509 arrived friday (early !)
    Anyhow, set it up and to cut a long story short I'm now a VERY happy man.

    Geometry is pretty damn good (not 100% perfect but 98%, you have to look at tell from side (90 degrees) to see anything wrong).

    Picture is first class. DNR goes a long way to sorting out the mpeg 'artifacts' which appear as noise / pixelation in dark scenes. In 90% of progs I can't see any noise, even when I'm looking for it.

    images are pin sharp. The text is no longer 'fuzzy'.

    Motion, I haven't really experimented with yet, I'm currently running PP2, and I have seen no noticable problems (inc. football and normal sky programming).
    A word of warning though, some programmes on sky you can see that they've dropped the encode rate on them. The picture is about 60% of what you would normally get. But most programmes (esp. BBC) are excellent quality. This isn't a TV fault, but sky trying to cram as much rubbish into the pipe as possible ! Even so the 9509 makes these look at least twice as good as a normal TV.

    I'm now a VERY happy camper !!!!!!

    Settings
    DNR max
    Dynamic Contrast min
    Active Control OFF !!!!!!!!!
    Processing PP2
    Sharpness 0

    Bazza... Get your lowe yet ? Verdicts ??


    Cheers to everyone for all their help, and big thanks to Tv & video direct for being so good & damn efficient !!!!!!!!!!


    PS the blue led is soooooo COOL !
     
  26. Gernot

    Gernot
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    I think Philips did a fine work with the 9509 .

    The only thing I miss is a YUV connection for later HDTV and Progressive scan materials, like the new JVC TV's can do.

    So long, nice greetings from Vienna, Gernot.
     
  27. bazzae123

    bazzae123
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    Not yet M8, Clad to hear your a happy bunny. I'll let you know when it arrives.

    Bazza
     
  28. malinwa

    malinwa
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    we would like to buy the 32PW9509 but i am afraid of al the comments you here about this model.

    When you buy this model is it then a model with the latest software update which minimize the negative comments on this tv.
     
  29. bazzae123

    bazzae123
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    malinwa,

    Don't be put off by all the negative things you read about this set. Just look around this forum and your see most sets have some kind of problems. Read the positive stuff and go and get a good demo. This set has a fabulous picture but it can show up a few niggles every now and again but you soon get used to it and don't notice them after a while. The main problem is when somebody buys a new TV they spend most of the time looking for problems. Live with your new TV for a couple of weeks and then put back your old one and your see the difference. Believe me the 9509 is a very good set.

    Bazza
     
  30. malinwa

    malinwa
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    normally we went for the 32PW8719 but then we have noticed the 9309 with pixel plus but that seems to be no good option isn't it and now the price was turned down and the 9509 get's in the picture
     

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