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Philips 9509 and Digital Natural Motion

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by Mahler, Feb 27, 2005.

  1. Mahler

    Mahler
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    Hello!! I've recently bought a Philips 32PW9509 TV.. Everything is really incredible... The Pixel Plus 2 enchancement makes the picture ALIVE...There's only one problem.. The thing philips calls DIGITAL NATURAL MOTION..As you probably already know.. films are presented with a 24fps framerate in the cinemas.. a way that leads to a very specific type of movement...Philips tried to "correct" using this Digital Natural Motion.. this "filter" makes motion look a little.."artificial" I really can't stand it anymore.. I've searched all menus for an DNM On/Off setting.. but there wasn't anything like that.. This option turns automatically off when you deactivate Pixel Plus2.. Does anybody know if there's a way to fix this problem without deacivating pixel plus2?? Is there anything in the service menu??
    PS: I know that my English is terrible.. but I'm working on it!!! :lesson:
    Thanks!!
     
  2. Wackojacko32

    Wackojacko32
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    I had one of these for a short time, too many other problems, and found that the Movie plus mode certainly lessened the effect without losing too much detail.

    Wackojacko32
     
  3. Mahler

    Mahler
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    I've tried switching to Movie Plus but noticed no difference.. Is there a way to completely deactivate digital natural motion... I like the clarity of pixelplus2.. but i really like the way movies are projected in cinemas... 24 fps...
     
  4. stlic

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    Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that DNM is a permanent part of Pixel Plus (Movie and PP2) meaning it can't be disabled if you have PP2 on.
     
  5. Wackojacko32

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    Having thought about it again, does swtiching the 'active settings' (bottom left of remote I think) to off turn this feature off whilst keeping PP2?

    Sorry I can't be sure I no longer have this TV.

    Wackojacko32
     
  6. Mahler

    Mahler
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    I've switched off Active Control.. but nothing changed... I'm just mad, cause I paid the extra 500euros to get this tv with PixelPlus2 and i'm watching movies without it.. I can't stand what philips calls "natural" motion..
    I wonder.. can i turn this off using the service menu....
     
  7. Zacabeb

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    Pixel Plus is usually dependent on the motion compensation provided by Natural Motion, since it converts the display rate from 50Hz to 75Hz. For video material, this means converting from 50 motion updates to 75 per second.

    Since film material has only 25 motion updates per second, it could theoretically do without this process and instead get away with re-interlacing at 75Hz. Philips are obviously of a different opinion, and the Movie Plus mode seems to just be a way to reduce artifacts produced by Natural Motion when viewing movie material.

    The only workaround is really to switch to Digital Scan, as you have tried. While you'll lose sharpness, Pixel Plus isn't really recovering any 'true' sharpness from the image anyway - technically speaking it just moves picture energy from the highest spatial frequencies present in the incoming video signal up to even higher spatial frequencies, where they may or may not belong. It might be impressive to look at, but honestly it's almost as fake an 'improvement' as Natural Motion.
     
  8. Mahler

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    You're right it's fake.. But it's also very impressive.. If you get to the active control menu, there's a way to see what the picture would look like WITHOUT digital natural motion, but WITH pixel plus 2 enabled.. So this makes me wondering.. could there be a setting in the service menu that would deactivate it?? The Picture without PP2 is okay, but.. it's a shame.. having paid all these extra money to enjoy the benefits of PP2...
     
  9. Wackojacko32

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    Did you check the status bars in the Active control menu? I'm sure this will show Zero for DNM. I think part of the problem may actually be with PP2 and not DNM. I found that PP2 gave a real bad, and pixelatted, Halo effect around the main characters regardless of how the Active control was set. It was partcularly bad if the background was trees, the DSP just cant cope!

    If you search the forum you will find most people stick to Movieplus or Digital Scan as they Find PP2 unwatchable.

    Wackojacko32
     
  10. Mahler

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    I can see some halo effect.. but my real problem is with the "documantary" style motion when watching movies.. The halo effect is something you can reduce using sharpness, dnr and active control settings. You can't completely get rid of it but you can make things a little better. But the motion problem is always the same.. you see, my problem is not the artifacts dnm produces.. but the general type of movement, which is something like watching the news. This makes special effects (explosions etc) look really fake..and in scenes where the camera is travelling from side to side.. the result is something completely artificial.. Generally... it's like the motion you see when you're watching the "making of" in a dvd..
     
  11. Wackojacko32

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    Know what you mean, both my wife and I felt that it made everything look like a live broadcast. I didn't venture into the service menu so if turning off active control doesn't help them I'm stumped, sorry :thumbsdow:

    Wackojacko
     
  12. Mahler

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    I contacted Philips to ask them about this issue... and they told me "simply to press the Digital Natural Motion key in the remote to turn off this feature!!!!!!!" Of course there's no such button in the remote... I can't believe they don't know anything about their products!!!!!
     
  13. Wackojacko32

    Wackojacko32
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    I can:D
     
  14. Swa

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    I have read a lot of complaints about this documantary style of motion. Do you also have this problem when you are watching DVD with movie plus?
     
  15. Mahler

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    Yes, the motion with movie plus enabled is just the same.. I can watch movies only in 100Hz mode... The sad thing is that i've paid 600Euros more to buy a Pixel Plus 2 TV!!!! :eek:
     
  16. Swa

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    What is the picture quality in 100hz mode?
     
  17. malinwa

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    nobody who knowns if the philips gives good quality in 100 Hz
     

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