Hello everyone!
I am having some problems with my 55pos901F, where in particular HDR content is giving me some issues with some sort of instability in the brightness of the image.
The problem is usually very visible and distracting, as it is some kind of blitz effect, that occurs typically with sunlight, skies, clouds, sands, and other bright and similar scenes, where there light just gets too bright and pulses and flashes, before it settles on the correct value and it disappears. I have not found any video examples that looks like this, but hopefully someone here has some insight in what it is, or have seen it before and can enlighten me on the subject.
I have several video examples which I have provided Philips Support, who claims they don't see anything wrong with HDR, so it will be interesting to see if that is the case in your opinion as well, or if I am correct and have an issue that they should have resolved.
I also have some newer examples that I just recently sendt them, but I got an auto reply that my case was closed, even though I had responded to their systems request of a comment to avoid the case closing, twice. They also closed my case without any reply last year after it had been escalated following initial contact and suggestions, and I waited about 2 months, before I eventually had to log in to their service portal and see that my case was closed. So I have been trying to get some answers since then, probably around December last year.
I initially contacted Philips in August 2020, and have not yet received any answers that help me understand what is going on, or if there is something I can do to mitigate or eliminate the problem, they only say my screen has burn in, which I know it has, mainly the HUD and overlay from Rocket League, despite it not being played a lot, that is showing up on some content with a lot of green like a football match or red like a commercial etc.. where most of the screen is one color.
Anyway, I was hoping you could help me identify the issue, just to either confirm Philips statements that they see nothing wrong with HDR and that there is burn in, which they where quick to point out that was not covered after 2 years, or if this is some other issue, either with the picture prosessing, which was my initial assumption, as I saw similar effects on some of the first HDR content i tested on my first unit which i got in Nov 2016, that was replaced in march 2018 with a shadow in the top tight corner, as well as burn in from other red HUD etc. from games like The Legend of Zelda with the hearts and perhaps a little bit of Rocket league there as well, mainly things from the red color space, which plagues these early OLED panels.
That early content was Marco Polo in HDR on Netflix, and I had some UHD 4K demos that was possibly in HDR, and I remember seing the issue on Mad Max Fury road 4K UHD Blu-Ray via my Samsung UBD-K8500, and I saw the same behavior with Red Dead Redemption 2 on PS4 PRO, which I also have a video clip of from 2018, regardless of the fact that it had a bad/fake HDR implementation, which again points to that the problem might be something besides the actual HDR10 implementation on the set, and rather a panel or hardware issue? I have no clue, so I'll let you guys have a look at my clips and, hopefully you can help me with information on what it could be.
I have seen the issue on both the Samsung UHD player, Playstation 5, Playstation 4 Pro, the Android TV app for Disney+, and it happens with both games and movies, but mostly movies. I have tested with HDMI 1 and 2, after suggestions from Philips that 3 and 4 was not compatible with HDR, but I seem to remember reading they where all HDMI 2.0. I had a Nintendo Switch on the 3 and my TV decoder on 4 anyway. My Samsung player also gave me a notice that there was some incompatibility on the HDMI 3, but then I was using a HDMI from the Wii U, and I have not retested with a better cable, as it probably does not matter anyway.
So it happens on several sources, both HDMI's, as well as the apps. I decided to try Disney+ as it had the new live action Lion King 4K UHD movie, which is one of my UHD Blu-rays that sets of the issue.
The behavior is repeatable in the sense that it occurs on certain scenes, and I can just replay them to record and try different Picture profiles etc.. yet it does not behave exactly the same each time. I only see it when the content is playing, if i press pause it does not blitz or pulsate.
So I have tried it with both my Samsung player, and PS5, using the HDMI cable that comes with PS5, as well as the Disney+ app, both on the TV itself, and on the PS5. The problem persists across all these devices, and on both HDMI 1 and 2.
1 thing that i noted, was that installing the Disney+ app on the TV, changed the behavior, and reduced the problem significantly, which made me scratch my head. I later decided to hard reset the TV again, to see if i could replicate the change, but I did not immediately see the same change the second time, although I suspect it has reduced the issue slightly again, as is was more aggressive and visible in the Lion King before installation. The Disney+ version was also less affected, but it had similar issues nonetheless.
I have examples from Deadpool 4K UHD Blu-ray, Blue Planet 2, 4K UHD Blu-Ray, Lion King 4K UHD Blu-Ray, Alien Covenant 4K UHD Blu-Ray, and the games Red Dead Redemption 2 (PS4 Pro) and AC Valhalla (PS5). Philips claimed at one point it was the content, and that they saw no problem with the HDR itself. I have updated the TV a few times during the time I have been in contact with support, but the issue is still there.
Changing picture profiles does alter the visibility of the flashing/blitzing, and HDR Vivid and ISF night, seems to be the worst, and HDR Standard the one that has the least visible issues. The AC Valhalla clips was recorded in the HDR Game profile.
In the settings on the 901F, the HDMI UHD options is set to 4:4:4/4:2:2, as I seem to remember the PS4 Pro not accepting the 4:2:0 if I wanted to activate HDR, and I find the same with the PS5, it only works in 4K HDR on this setting, so I assume that it's set up correctly.
I don't know if it could be panel degradation or something else, but since it was present already in 2018 after just a few months of ownership, as I got this unit around the start of May, and Red Dead 2 clips is from October I think, and since I also remember seeing similar behavior on Marco Polo, I just don't know what to think. I have seen something similar in SDR on two occasions, both on BBC Brit programs, with an episode of Top Gear and one of 8 out of 10 Cats, but I could not say whether or not it was the content or the same issue, I can link to clips of this as well, as I could replay them from my fiber TV decoder. Regardless, the HDR behavior is well documented by now.
I have my examples on my OneDrive, is that ok to link to the files here or are there some regulations regarding this?
If it's ok I can link to some of the files, so you can see what I am talking about.
If anything is unclear, I'll try to explain it better, and I suppose I could try an upload them to Youtube, but I assume it might be flagged and have some issues with copyrights etc..
Any input is appreciated, and if it's ok to link directly to the clips here, I'll post some examples asap. It's probably required to give you a proper understanding of what I'm talking about.
Thanks in advance for your time,
=)
Edit: Added some examples from my OneDrive. They have to be downloaded as OneDrive does not seem to want to play them directly, so if you click the links and then press download it should work, I play the files in VLC player with no issues, it's recorded in 4K HDR.
Any input is appreciated, so a big thanks to all who find the time to have a look and perhaps share some insight on what the issue could be.
1.
A clip from Lion king 4K UHD B-R showing the issue around the sun while the scene pans horizontally.
2.
Another scene from Lion King, where both the sun and the sunlight under the clouds on the horizon are unstable in brightness.
3.
A scene from Blue Planet 2 4K UHD B-R, the clouds on the right hand side is blitzing.
4.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjLFbClL ... g?e=ubH6pl
Another scene from Blue Planet where the tips of the waves on the left is blitzing.
5.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjLFXgSB ... Q?e=zzpcjE
BP2: The surface is blitzing above the school of fish at the end of the clip.
6.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjLFZPLs ... Q?e=PNx4HW
BP2: flashing in the blue sky behind the bird that ascends, @ ca 17.sek
7.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjLFY-84 ... Q?e=O7w5xN
BP2: some flashes in the blu sky behind the flying bird, after the scene with the shadow on the sand
8.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjLFLapc ... Q?e=cFYRQf
Alien Covenant 4K UHD B-R: The sky is flashing behind him while he sits at the piano
9.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjLFJQer ... Q?e=L5yXfi
AC 4K: The white ceiling is flashing
10/11.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjLFNccM ... Q?e=m52PS7
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjLFMz1W ... Q?e=lazA7S
AC 4K: The white wall behind his hands while he plays piano, 2 clips.
12.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjLFUA4T ... w?e=eNxPRZ
AC 4K: The same scene coherent, ceiling and wall are affected.
13.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjLFPhVS ... A?e=RN1XDX
(14. missed the count)
AC Valhalla PS5 4K HDR: image blitzing initially in the clouds surrounding the sun
15.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjLFc6tb ... w?e=bkHddt
AC Valhalla PS5 4K HDR: Another example with the sun and clouds.
16.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjJwJ9nN ... g?e=J8v3mP
An older clip of the Lion King scene, previous to the installation of the Disney+ app.
17.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjJwML15 ... w?e=eGjPGw
Another older clip, previous to the D+ install.
18.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjJ1husP ... g?e=q3nOZO
Red Dead Redemption 2, October 2018, Again, the sky and clouds surrounding a sun.
19.
Top Gear SDR, BBC Brit, Telenor T-we clip, a similar flashing effect.
20.
Top Gear SDR clip number 2.
21.
Top Gear SDR clip nr. 3
22.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjKczvUW ... w?e=cB4Z38
Top Gear again, right at the end of the clip
23.
8 out of 10 Cats, BBC Brit SDR, T-we. @ ca 7-12 sek.
24.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjKdDVfi ... w?e=B08HbB
Deadpool 4K HDR UHD B-R, clouds/sky
25.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjKdDVfi ... w?e=B08HbB
Deadpool, the sky again, mb a lens flare effect?
I have some other as well, but these should give a clear representation of what the issue looks like.
Best regards
Andreas
I made a Youtube playlist with the 3 Game examples, so you can see those without downloading anything.
Some of the 4K Blue-Ray examples. I reached the upload limit for today, so I will add more tomorrow..
I also compiled most of the clips into one video that plays directly of OneDrive, slight lower quality, but with textual explanations to most of the scenes.
I am having some problems with my 55pos901F, where in particular HDR content is giving me some issues with some sort of instability in the brightness of the image.
The problem is usually very visible and distracting, as it is some kind of blitz effect, that occurs typically with sunlight, skies, clouds, sands, and other bright and similar scenes, where there light just gets too bright and pulses and flashes, before it settles on the correct value and it disappears. I have not found any video examples that looks like this, but hopefully someone here has some insight in what it is, or have seen it before and can enlighten me on the subject.
I have several video examples which I have provided Philips Support, who claims they don't see anything wrong with HDR, so it will be interesting to see if that is the case in your opinion as well, or if I am correct and have an issue that they should have resolved.
I also have some newer examples that I just recently sendt them, but I got an auto reply that my case was closed, even though I had responded to their systems request of a comment to avoid the case closing, twice. They also closed my case without any reply last year after it had been escalated following initial contact and suggestions, and I waited about 2 months, before I eventually had to log in to their service portal and see that my case was closed. So I have been trying to get some answers since then, probably around December last year.
I initially contacted Philips in August 2020, and have not yet received any answers that help me understand what is going on, or if there is something I can do to mitigate or eliminate the problem, they only say my screen has burn in, which I know it has, mainly the HUD and overlay from Rocket League, despite it not being played a lot, that is showing up on some content with a lot of green like a football match or red like a commercial etc.. where most of the screen is one color.
Anyway, I was hoping you could help me identify the issue, just to either confirm Philips statements that they see nothing wrong with HDR and that there is burn in, which they where quick to point out that was not covered after 2 years, or if this is some other issue, either with the picture prosessing, which was my initial assumption, as I saw similar effects on some of the first HDR content i tested on my first unit which i got in Nov 2016, that was replaced in march 2018 with a shadow in the top tight corner, as well as burn in from other red HUD etc. from games like The Legend of Zelda with the hearts and perhaps a little bit of Rocket league there as well, mainly things from the red color space, which plagues these early OLED panels.
That early content was Marco Polo in HDR on Netflix, and I had some UHD 4K demos that was possibly in HDR, and I remember seing the issue on Mad Max Fury road 4K UHD Blu-Ray via my Samsung UBD-K8500, and I saw the same behavior with Red Dead Redemption 2 on PS4 PRO, which I also have a video clip of from 2018, regardless of the fact that it had a bad/fake HDR implementation, which again points to that the problem might be something besides the actual HDR10 implementation on the set, and rather a panel or hardware issue? I have no clue, so I'll let you guys have a look at my clips and, hopefully you can help me with information on what it could be.
I have seen the issue on both the Samsung UHD player, Playstation 5, Playstation 4 Pro, the Android TV app for Disney+, and it happens with both games and movies, but mostly movies. I have tested with HDMI 1 and 2, after suggestions from Philips that 3 and 4 was not compatible with HDR, but I seem to remember reading they where all HDMI 2.0. I had a Nintendo Switch on the 3 and my TV decoder on 4 anyway. My Samsung player also gave me a notice that there was some incompatibility on the HDMI 3, but then I was using a HDMI from the Wii U, and I have not retested with a better cable, as it probably does not matter anyway.
So it happens on several sources, both HDMI's, as well as the apps. I decided to try Disney+ as it had the new live action Lion King 4K UHD movie, which is one of my UHD Blu-rays that sets of the issue.
The behavior is repeatable in the sense that it occurs on certain scenes, and I can just replay them to record and try different Picture profiles etc.. yet it does not behave exactly the same each time. I only see it when the content is playing, if i press pause it does not blitz or pulsate.
So I have tried it with both my Samsung player, and PS5, using the HDMI cable that comes with PS5, as well as the Disney+ app, both on the TV itself, and on the PS5. The problem persists across all these devices, and on both HDMI 1 and 2.
1 thing that i noted, was that installing the Disney+ app on the TV, changed the behavior, and reduced the problem significantly, which made me scratch my head. I later decided to hard reset the TV again, to see if i could replicate the change, but I did not immediately see the same change the second time, although I suspect it has reduced the issue slightly again, as is was more aggressive and visible in the Lion King before installation. The Disney+ version was also less affected, but it had similar issues nonetheless.
I have examples from Deadpool 4K UHD Blu-ray, Blue Planet 2, 4K UHD Blu-Ray, Lion King 4K UHD Blu-Ray, Alien Covenant 4K UHD Blu-Ray, and the games Red Dead Redemption 2 (PS4 Pro) and AC Valhalla (PS5). Philips claimed at one point it was the content, and that they saw no problem with the HDR itself. I have updated the TV a few times during the time I have been in contact with support, but the issue is still there.
Changing picture profiles does alter the visibility of the flashing/blitzing, and HDR Vivid and ISF night, seems to be the worst, and HDR Standard the one that has the least visible issues. The AC Valhalla clips was recorded in the HDR Game profile.
In the settings on the 901F, the HDMI UHD options is set to 4:4:4/4:2:2, as I seem to remember the PS4 Pro not accepting the 4:2:0 if I wanted to activate HDR, and I find the same with the PS5, it only works in 4K HDR on this setting, so I assume that it's set up correctly.
I don't know if it could be panel degradation or something else, but since it was present already in 2018 after just a few months of ownership, as I got this unit around the start of May, and Red Dead 2 clips is from October I think, and since I also remember seeing similar behavior on Marco Polo, I just don't know what to think. I have seen something similar in SDR on two occasions, both on BBC Brit programs, with an episode of Top Gear and one of 8 out of 10 Cats, but I could not say whether or not it was the content or the same issue, I can link to clips of this as well, as I could replay them from my fiber TV decoder. Regardless, the HDR behavior is well documented by now.
I have my examples on my OneDrive, is that ok to link to the files here or are there some regulations regarding this?
If it's ok I can link to some of the files, so you can see what I am talking about.
If anything is unclear, I'll try to explain it better, and I suppose I could try an upload them to Youtube, but I assume it might be flagged and have some issues with copyrights etc..
Any input is appreciated, and if it's ok to link directly to the clips here, I'll post some examples asap. It's probably required to give you a proper understanding of what I'm talking about.
Thanks in advance for your time,
=)
Edit: Added some examples from my OneDrive. They have to be downloaded as OneDrive does not seem to want to play them directly, so if you click the links and then press download it should work, I play the files in VLC player with no issues, it's recorded in 4K HDR.
Any input is appreciated, so a big thanks to all who find the time to have a look and perhaps share some insight on what the issue could be.
1.
A clip from Lion king 4K UHD B-R showing the issue around the sun while the scene pans horizontally.
2.
3.
4.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjLFbClL ... g?e=ubH6pl
Another scene from Blue Planet where the tips of the waves on the left is blitzing.
5.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjLFXgSB ... Q?e=zzpcjE
BP2: The surface is blitzing above the school of fish at the end of the clip.
6.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjLFZPLs ... Q?e=PNx4HW
BP2: flashing in the blue sky behind the bird that ascends, @ ca 17.sek
7.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjLFY-84 ... Q?e=O7w5xN
BP2: some flashes in the blu sky behind the flying bird, after the scene with the shadow on the sand
8.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjLFLapc ... Q?e=cFYRQf
Alien Covenant 4K UHD B-R: The sky is flashing behind him while he sits at the piano
9.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjLFJQer ... Q?e=L5yXfi
AC 4K: The white ceiling is flashing
10/11.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjLFNccM ... Q?e=m52PS7
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjLFMz1W ... Q?e=lazA7S
AC 4K: The white wall behind his hands while he plays piano, 2 clips.
12.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjLFUA4T ... w?e=eNxPRZ
AC 4K: The same scene coherent, ceiling and wall are affected.
13.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjLFPhVS ... A?e=RN1XDX
(14. missed the count)
AC Valhalla PS5 4K HDR: image blitzing initially in the clouds surrounding the sun
15.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjLFc6tb ... w?e=bkHddt
AC Valhalla PS5 4K HDR: Another example with the sun and clouds.
16.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjJwJ9nN ... g?e=J8v3mP
An older clip of the Lion King scene, previous to the installation of the Disney+ app.
17.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjJwML15 ... w?e=eGjPGw
Another older clip, previous to the D+ install.
18.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjJ1husP ... g?e=q3nOZO
Red Dead Redemption 2, October 2018, Again, the sky and clouds surrounding a sun.
19.
20.
21.
22.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjKczvUW ... w?e=cB4Z38
Top Gear again, right at the end of the clip
23.
24.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjKdDVfi ... w?e=B08HbB
Deadpool 4K HDR UHD B-R, clouds/sky
25.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtNoF7OyNwYFjKdDVfi ... w?e=B08HbB
Deadpool, the sky again, mb a lens flare effect?
I have some other as well, but these should give a clear representation of what the issue looks like.
Best regards
Andreas
Edit: I seem to have posted the RDR2 clip link instead of the Top Gear ones a few times, and the 8 out of 10 cats, it should be correct now.
I have also been informed that there was some issues with a few of the clips not playing even after downloading them on a Mac, so I'll try and make a compilation and produce it in a different format, as there is something about the mp4 4K HDR files from my Nokia 9 Pureview that is complicating playback.I made a Youtube playlist with the 3 Game examples, so you can see those without downloading anything.
Some of the 4K Blue-Ray examples. I reached the upload limit for today, so I will add more tomorrow..
I also compiled most of the clips into one video that plays directly of OneDrive, slight lower quality, but with textual explanations to most of the scenes.
Last edited:
