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Philips 803 (65OLED803) Review & Comments

GadgetObsessed

Well-known Member
The blue is smaller but the red is bigger. The French review is not the only one that showed the pixel structure so it definitely is in all the 803/903 sets ...
The red pixel was increased in size in the 2018 panels. This new 2019 or revised 2018 panel retains the large red sub-pixel but shrinks the size of the blue sub-pixel.

2017 LG OLED Panels - large Blue and White sub-pixels and smaller Green and Red sub-pixels.
2018 LG OLED Panels - LG increased the size of the Red sub-pixel - so that the panels had large Blue, White and Red sub-pixels and a smaller Green subpixel.
2019 LG OLED Panel?? - this new panel now has a smaller Blue pixel. So overall it has large White and Red sub-pixels and smaller Green and Blue subpixels.
 

big boss

Well-known Member
Great review, thanks! For me, all I need is a screen and ambilight. My living room has Philips Hue lights which can sync with the TV's ambilight to create a dramatic effect. Now just waiting for the price to fall.
 

desinho

Member
I find it odd that Phillips will update the Android OS to version 8 when version 9 was released in August 2018.............on a TV with a suggested retail price of £2999.00 seems a little mean to me :-(
The red pixel was increased in size in the 2018 panels. This new 2019 or revised 2018 panel retains the large red sub-pixel but shrinks the size of the blue sub-pixel.

2017 LG OLED Panels - large Blue and White sub-pixels and smaller Green and Red sub-pixels.
2018 LG OLED Panels - LG increased the size of the Red sub-pixel - so that the panels had large Blue, White and Red sub-pixels and a smaller Green subpixel.
2019 LG OLED Panel?? - this new panel now has a smaller Blue pixel. So overall it has large White and Red sub-pixels and smaller Green and Blue subpixels.
So you are going to tell me this red looks just as big as the exisitng 2018?





Funnily enough the 55" 803 in the other (early August vs French October) review uses the early 2018 panel:



And the new one from the 65" 903 review (maybe the white one is smaller, making the red look bigger. Or the red has increased slightly but the white shrunken at the same time):

 
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GadgetObsessed

Well-known Member
So you are going to tell me this red looks just as big as the exisitng 2018?

Funnily enough the 55" 803 in the other (early August vs French October) review uses the early 2018 panel:

And the new one from the 65" 903 review (maybe the white one is smaller, making the red look bigger. Or the red has increased slightly but the white shrunken at the same time):
Thanks for that. Scaling them to the same height the new red sub-pixel looks about 30% wider than the one on the 2018 panel. However, it is difficult to tell because there may be some blooming around the more brightly red lit sub pixel.

The blue sub pixel has changed size very significantly.

We keep talking about 2017 or 2018 panels. However, perhaps changes to panels do not simply correspond to LG TV releases e.g. the 7 range in 2017 and the 8 range in 2018.

Perhaps panels continually evolve throughout the year and what we are seeing is simply the latest panel version. That could mean that any TVs from any manufacturer that use panels that are manufactured now, will get this revised panel.

Alternatively Philips have specified a specific panel design but that seems unlikely to me.

WOuld be interesting to know what drives these changes e.g. red increases to increase red life span - blue decreases because they have a better emitter.
 

Darksaberx

Active Member
Thank you for the review.
Do you think input lag is really that crucial for single player games with a controller? The frame time shoud be around 33 for 30fps games, surely 38ms cant be that terribly noticable?
Also have you tried playing games with Perfect Natural Motion enabled?
Hi,

I have a Sony TV in my living room and a Philips TV in my bedroom. One has a 30s input lag and the other has a 40s input lag.

I bring my Switch back and forth, and believe me, the input lag is noticeable when you start playing on the 40s input lag TV. After a while you get used to it and forget about it.
 

desinho

Member
Thanks for that. Scaling them to the same height the new red sub-pixel looks about 30% wider than the one on the 2018 panel. However, it is difficult to tell because there may be some blooming around the more brightly red lit sub pixel.

The blue sub pixel has changed size very significantly.

We keep talking about 2017 or 2018 panels. However, perhaps changes to panels do not simply correspond to LG TV releases e.g. the 7 range in 2017 and the 8 range in 2018.

Perhaps panels continually evolve throughout the year and what we are seeing is simply the latest panel version. That could mean that any TVs from any manufacturer that use panels that are manufactured now, will get this revised panel.

Alternatively Philips have specified a specific panel design but that seems unlikely to me.

WOuld be interesting to know what drives these changes e.g. red increases to increase red life span - blue decreases because they have a better emitter.
Yes the so called 2017 panel was available mid 2016 already on the LG G6 for one and so called 2016 panel was still present in 2017 models (like a B7).
The 803 and 903 have been lying in wait since the beginning of the year, perhaps the one used in the August review was not a production model yet.
From a Philips point of view the 873 and 973 use the '2017' panel so for them these new ones would be a '2018' panel if you were to ask them (I imagine).
The AF9 is a much later announcement but still has the older panel so maybe it comes down to pricing or simply the number of available panels, with Sony securing the panels before Philips.
Definitely something to keep an eye on but I don't think you will find a different panel in a later production Sony A1 than the first ones.
 

Tim2049

Well-known Member
Well, I have Oreo on the AF9 I am reviewing at the moment and it is far superior to the AF8 and 803, but it also has a better chipset so hard to tell if it would be as big an improvement on the Philips. They are sending me a 903 for review and I'll be doing some longer-term testing with that sample, so hoping to fully test Oreo as soon as it is available as the 803 and 903 are identical apart from the soundbar.
Don't forget that the A1 and the AF8 are also getting Oreo in the near future. Worth pointing out seeing as you pretty much constantly undermine the brand.

The bias is hardly subtle, which is all well and good, but you may want to try and hide it a little better given your position...
 

Phil Hinton

Editor
Staff member
There is no bias, you just don't like the fact that I have been critical of a TV you own. We also owned that TV for a few months and I haven't changed my mind in my assessment. You are welcome to disagree with my findings, but calling bias is really unfair as I have none, I say it how I see it. The AF9 is light years ahead of the AF8 because they have added everything I complained about in the AF8. A Philips 903 arrived with me today as well, so I will be able to test that fully once Oreo lands, it will be a long-term review that one.
 

Tim2049

Well-known Member
There is no bias, you just don't like the fact that I have been critical of a TV you own. We also owned that TV for a few months and I haven't changed my mind in my assessment. You are welcome to disagree with my findings, but calling bias is really unfair as I have none, I say it how I see it. The AF9 is light years ahead of the AF8 because they have added everything I complained about in the AF8. A Philips 903 arrived with me today as well, so I will be able to test that fully once Oreo lands, it will be a long-term review that one.
I found your criticisms bemusing, no more than that. Even more so after the subsequent shootouts in which the Sony beat the '10/10' scored LG in pretty much every single picture category.

As I say, bemusing...

You'll defend your 'objectivity', but I still don't buy it. An opinion you help flourish given daft comments like the AF9 being 'light years ahead', I mean good grief....if slightly improved HDR highlights and sound constitute 'light years ahead' then you may want to check your hyperbole settings, because all you're doing is proving my point with ridiculous language like that.

As I say, just try and make your disdain a little bit more subtle...

...and for the millionth time, go easy on the hyperbole....
 

GadgetObsessed

Well-known Member
Don't forget that the A1 and the AF8 are also getting Oreo in the near future. Worth pointing out seeing as you pretty much constantly undermine the brand.

The bias is hardly subtle, which is all well and good, but you may want to try and hide it a little better given your position...
But the AF8 and the 803 will still be stuck with the same chipset. An update to Oreo won't solve the problem if the underlying issue is an underpowered processor.

I have a Sony ZD9 with the same X1 Extreme processor and OS as the AF8/AF1.
The processor on the new AF9 does seem a significant step forward. I have seen videos of scrolling through menus on the AF9 at speeds that the ZD9 cannot get close to.
 

Tim2049

Well-known Member
But the AF8 and the 803 will still be stuck with the same chipset. An update to Oreo won't solve the problem if the underlying issue is an underpowered processor.

I have a Sony ZD9 with the same X1 Extreme processor and OS as the AF8/AF1.
The processor on the new AF9 does seem a significant step forward. I have seen videos of scrolling through menus on the AF9 at speeds that the ZD9 cannot get close to.
Absolutely, fair point. I appreciate they'll be a slight different in speed still.

Personally I'll never, ever understand the focus on a tv's OS though. My partner's Samsung is way quicker than my Sony...but, in reality, that just means it takes me about a second longer to load up YouTube.. (?!) Like I say, I can't for the life of me figure out why it's such a big deal.

The current OS on my Sony is pretty crappy, but it does what it needs to...(99% of the time anyway) and I'm normally reliant on the OS for a couple of seconds per night, so...i can live with it. Oreo will be nice I guess, but...'meh'...it's no biggie really..
 
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GadgetObsessed

Well-known Member
Absolutely, fair point. I appreciate they'll be a slight different in speed still.

Personally I'll never, ever understand the focus on a tv's OS though. My partner's Samsung is way quicker than my Sony...but, in reality, that just means it takes me about a second longer to load up YouTube.. (?!) Like I say, I can't for the life of me figure out why it's such a big deal.

The current OS on my Sony is pretty crappy, but it does what it needs to...(99% of the time anyway) and I'm normally reliant on the OS for a couple of seconds per night, so...ok can live with it. Oreo will be nice I guess, but...'meh'...it's no biggie really..
Generally I agree. If a TV has a poor OS then you can generally just avoid it by using an external device such as an Apple TV, as I do.

The only area where I dont agree is when the OS is unstable. When I first got my ZD9 the OS was truly awful. The TV sometimes crashed or locked up simply from repeated button presses e.g. if you tried to increase the brightness by 10 clicks after scrolling through the picture menus, the TV could hang. Fortunately, each subsequent firmware update increased the stability. Now it never seems to crash or lock up - so overall I have no real issues with the OS. Even so Apple TV is still a world ahead.

The Flatpanels review of the Philips 803 rasied some potentially significant issues:
"OLED803 has the same processor for Android as POS9002 / OLED873 (MediaTek MT5891) so operation still feels slow and clunky. Especially HDR video seems to force the TV to its knees in menus. On multiple occasions, we experienced a problem with audio delay introduced after navigating the menus or after activating HDR. The audio delay started drifting more and more until you either restarted the TV or changed the input. At the same time, we observed noise on the optical audio output and one time the TV force-reset itself before we could do anything about it. It may be related to this being a review sample – we have not been able to double-check with a retail sample."

The Philips 803 is using the same Mediatek processor as in my 2016 ZD9.
The MediaTek MT5891 has the following spec:
CPU - ARM Cortex A53 Quad core 1.1GHz
2Gb RAM
Graphics - ARM Mali T860

The SoC in the AF9/ZF9 is a MediaTek MT5598 (MT5893)
CPU - ARM Cortex A73 Quad core 1.5GHz
4Gb RAM
Graphics - ARM Mali G71

Comparison of the graphics component of the 2 chips here:
Graphics Card Comparison - Head 2 Head
 
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lgans316

Distinguished Member
Any TV without a mouse pointer via the supplied remote is a NO-GO for me as I am now so used to it on LG 65C8. The convenience it brings is priceless to me. It might sound as something silly to some but trust me, once you get used to it, there is no going back :)
 

raduv1

Distinguished Member
Any one like myself after an OLED that has not yet moved over can only really look at LG for features , options and price as the rest are at best half measures that are focused on the one whilst never having a full package .
 

jaxione

Active Member
But the AF8 and the 803 will still be stuck with the same chipset. An update to Oreo won't solve the problem if the underlying issue is an underpowered processor.

I have a Sony ZD9 with the same X1 Extreme processor and OS as the AF8/AF1.
The processor on the new AF9 does seem a significant step forward. I have seen videos of scrolling through menus on the AF9 at speeds that the ZD9 cannot get close to.
Sony sadly is nowadays well known for their underpowered chipsets and bad Android TV implementations. Sony makes excellent tvs, maybe the best out there so its sad that they cant get this last piece of the puzzle right. I tried both a Sony XD9305 and a Philips POS9002 which both runs Andoroid 7.0 and it ran so much better on the Philips than on the Sony even though it was not perfect on either of them. The problem seems to be that they cant optimize Android tv to run perfect with the chipsets availiable on current tvs. Android TV with a strong chipset runs perfectly without any hickups or slowdowns. I have tested a friends Nvidia Shield that ran Android TV 7 and it ran without any flaws.

Android TV on Philips Oleds is good enough, but its bad enough to make you want to go buy a Nvidia shield or Apple TV 4K. But its not as bad as on the Sony tvs. The Sony tvs i have tried which is the Sony AF8 and the Sony XD9305 drove me nuts with all the slowdowns and crashes. I have not tried the AF9, maybe Sony finally listened and boosted the chipset on that one.
 

Goldorak

Distinguished Member
Sony sadly is nowadays well known for their underpowered chipsets and bad Android TV implementations. Sony makes excellent tvs, maybe the best out there so its sad that they cant get this last piece of the puzzle right. I tried both a Sony XD9305 and a Philips POS9002 which both runs Andoroid 7.0 and it ran so much better on the Philips than on the Sony even though it was not perfect on either of them. The problem seems to be that they cant optimize Android tv to run perfect with the chipsets availiable on current tvs. Android TV with a strong chipset runs perfectly without any hickups or slowdowns. I have tested a friends Nvidia Shield that ran Android TV 7 and it ran without any flaws.

Android TV on Philips Oleds is good enough, but its bad enough to make you want to go buy a Nvidia shield or Apple TV 4K. But its not as bad as on the Sony tvs. The Sony tvs i have tried which is the Sony AF8 and the Sony XD9305 drove me nuts with all the slowdowns and crashes. I have not tried the AF9, maybe Sony finally listened and boosted the chipset on that one.
Yep, Sony listened with qf9 finally
Philips didn’t especially with 903
There is light in the tunnel, a Sony rep tested behind closed door oreo with x1 extreme and it is apparently much better

That’s why, very keen to see oreo applied to xf9 and also Philips 803 and 903...

You want good experience, take LG or wait for Sony new generation with new chipset and processor...

A guy in French forum said that 804 is already in final preparation for jan event ;-) that will be half funny.
The b&w guy hinted at most exciting stuff coming and I don’t doubt him
 

GadgetObsessed

Well-known Member
I have not tried the AF9, maybe Sony finally listened and boosted the chipset on that one.
The AF9 and ZF9 have a significantly faster chipset with 4x the amount of memory compared to the one in the XD and AF8. Reports indicate that it is much faster in use too.

A guy in French forum said that 804 is already in final preparation for jan event ;-) that will be half funny.
I would expect that LG will be launching their own 2019 range of OLEDs at CES. So it wouldn't be too suprising to see Philips launch an 804 at CES - probably with an official 2019 panel. We will probably see some 2019 based sets from other manufacturers at CES too.

TVs presented at CES are then not usually available until March or April so that would put 6 months
between the launch of the 803 and the 804.
 

jaxione

Active Member
Yep, Sony listened with qf9 finally
Philips didn’t especially with 903
There is light in the tunnel, a Sony rep tested behind closed door oreo with x1 extreme and it is apparently much better

That’s why, very keen to see oreo applied to xf9 and also Philips 803 and 903...

You want good experience, take LG or wait for Sony new generation with new chipset and processor...

A guy in French forum said that 804 is already in final preparation for jan event ;-) that will be half funny.
The b&w guy hinted at most exciting stuff coming and I don’t doubt him
I would buy a Sony, LG or Panasonic if they had ambilight. I wish I could go back to the time before I tried a Philips tv, life would be much easier then. Suddenly every tv without ambilight seem boring, like I am buying a Volvo when i could buy a Ferrari for almost the same price :)

Damn you Philips! You have spoiled me for all other tv brands! :)
 

Shocked

Active Member
Yep, Sony listened with qf9 finally
Philips didn’t especially with 903
There is light in the tunnel, a Sony rep tested behind closed door oreo with x1 extreme and it is apparently much better

That’s why, very keen to see oreo applied to xf9 and also Philips 803 and 903...
I have a Sony KD-55AF9 at home for already two weeks and can confirm Oreo is extremely fast compared to Android vers. 7 on my other Sony 65XF9005.
It is actually so fast when I use the menu I often have to go back a few steps...
I also didn't noticed any slowdowns or crashes while using the menu, even in 4K HDR etc for the last two weeks.
It is a totally other experience and my biggest gripe (slow respons volume up/down) is gone.

For the record, I also measured standby power consumption because it was a known problem that the latest Sony oled's uses a lot of electricity in standby (wakening often). It now uses about 1 Watt or less / hr. in standby, which is ok.
 

drdoom2k

Active Member
Thanks for that great review. Now, let's wait for the price coming down and see if I will be selling it in exchange for my C8! :smashin:
 

Dennis fleetwood

Standard Member
I would buy a Sony, LG or Panasonic if they had ambilight. I wish I could go back to the time before I tried a Philips tv, life would be much easier then. Suddenly every tv without ambilight seem boring, like I am buying a Volvo when i could buy a Ferrari for almost the same price :)

Damn you Philips! You have spoiled me for all other tv brands! :)
I know the feeling. Yet we can be assured that picture quality is on par with LG and Panasonic OLED thanks to this review. Its comforting to know that. I would not trade my philips for any of them. And here in holland the price of the 803 is lower than lgc8 or pan. fz802
 

Goldorak

Distinguished Member
I know the feeling. Yet we can be assured that picture quality is on par with LG and Panasonic OLED thanks to this review. Its comforting to know that. I would not trade my philips for any of them. And here in holland the price of the 803 is lower than lgc8 or pan. fz802
You region is a traditional stronghold for Philips TP vision both in availability and prices
Any chance you tested the sound of 803 and 903 in particular
 

Dennis fleetwood

Standard Member
You region is a traditional stronghold for Philips TP vision both in availability and prices
Any chance you tested the sound of 803 and 903 in particular
I bought it for €1565. Now its on sale for 1700 on discount. My knowledge of sound is poor and i did no comparison between the 803 amd 903. What i can tell you is that the sound of the 803 is quite a bit better compared to my previous tv the Panasonic vt50. Its fuller and louder. The 903 is said to be significantly better. I do have to say, considering picture quality, it took me a while to get used to the difference in visual style of oled vs plasma. Oled ia brighter but i missed the plasma like picture to an extent that i almost regretted the purchase of this new tv. Now after 6 weeks am used to the OLED style and it truelly is better and more versatile the the ole vt50. Anyone else on this forum with the same experience?
 

pcaddy

Well-known Member
I do have to say, considering picture quality, it took me a while to get used to the difference in visual style of oled vs plasma. Oled ia brighter but i missed the plasma like picture to an extent that i almost regretted the purchase of this new tv. Now after 6 weeks am used to the OLED style and it truelly is better and more versatile the the ole vt50. Anyone else on this forum with the same experience?
When I changed my TV from Plasma to OLED the difference was striking, I never looked back for an instant it was so much better. In fact I would say that it's about the biggest upgrade I made and I've been very happy with it for the last two years:) The nearest other upgrade was from Dolby Digital to lossless HD sound on the amplifier, which was also stunningly better:)
 

Dennis fleetwood

Standard Member
When I changed my TV from Plasma to OLED the difference was striking, I never looked back for an instant it was so much better. In fact I would say that it's about the biggest upgrade I made and I've been very happy with it for the last two years:) The nearest other upgrade was from Dolby Digital to lossless HD sound on the amplifier, which was also stunningly better:)
I think that is actually good to hear because it validates the upgrade to oled. Personally i really liked the plasma characteristics wich were not present on oled. Oled looked like led/lcd on steroids. Now i am really aware of the quality jump. One stark difference is black level. Stuff really pops and coloura are bright.

I also felt like skin and fleshtones looked really subpar compared to my plasma. It looked to white and flat.
 
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