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Philips 36PW9607 has problems with NTSC and PAL60

Discussion in 'TVs' started by Jon Weaver, Sep 10, 2002.

  1. Jon Weaver

    Jon Weaver
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    I raised a thread about a problem that I had, but the moderator merged with another unrelated thread:

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46218

    However, it turns out that this isn't a fault on my set, but a general problem with the 9607.

    When you play PAL (50hz) sources through the TV, you get a rock solid picture

    However, when you play NTSC or PAL60 through it, the picture 'wobbles'.. Its especially noticable on the extra left/right sides of the screen.

    At first, I assumed that this was a problem with my DVD player, however, after trying my PS2, XBOX and Laptop all outputting NTSC or PAL60, I proved that it must be my TV or some other external influence.

    On Monday and engineer came out, confirmed the fault and went away to talk to Philips (I am waiting for the results of his findings)

    At this point I still believed (hoped) that this was just a simple fault, which could be fixed.

    However, last night I visited a local Currys who had a 9607 hooked upto a DVD player.

    I put in a R0 NTSC disk and low and behold, that wobbled too.. However, replacing the R2 (PAL) disk, gave a rock solid picture.

    I have now seen this on 2 totally unrelated TVs and my only conclusion can be that this is either a general fault, or a bad batch.

    I know that others have replied to my previous post saying that they don't see this problem, but I am not sure if they are 32" or 36" users.

    I really hope that Philips take this seriously and it doesn't turn out to be another "Sony Scrolling Bar" problem.
     
  2. Matthew Attoe

    Matthew Attoe
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    Jon

    I have got the 36" version and i really don't see this problem (using a sony 900 via rgb using a sqart cable).

    HOWEVER, i do have all of the other problems you mention, as you may remember in your previous threads.

    I am now giving up on the philips, and going to try a tosh 36" strata.

    My local dealer has been brilliant so far, but philips just can't seem to get the sets in to the country (as others have testified to), so i figure enoughs enough.

    Good luck in your hunt for a good philips. Personally I don't think there is one, but then that's just my opinion - even if it is wrong :)

    Matthew
     
  3. Jon Weaver

    Jon Weaver
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    I am not so worried about the other problems.. This is the issue which is causing me the most grief, as I now have to watch my entire collection of DVDs with a wobble (All be it very slight)

    This isn't anyhting to do with quality interconnects, as when you turn Pixel Plus off, the picture is stable again.

    This issue really worries me as after trying it in a shop with totally unrelated hardware, this must be a problem with either the 9607 or the current batch that they are producing.

    My Laptop has a 'video out' which can be set for NTSC or PAL.. I am tempted to do a little tour of all of the shops which sell it, just to see if its a global problem or not.
     
  4. rct

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    Just to clarify in this thread too:

    I am a 32PW9617 owner (32" set) and after extensive testing I can confirm this TV has no problems with either NTSC or PAL 60 display regardless of picture mode chosen.

    I sincerely hope you can get your 9607 problems sorted out Jon.
     
  5. nictry

    nictry
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    I have a 36" 9607 and the majority of my DVD collection is NTSC and I have no picture 'wobble' whatsoever.

    I have spent some time reviewing even more closely than usual following your original thread and there is nothing, no matter what background, colour, content so I can only presume that this is not a TV issue across all sets but may be restricted to a batch.

    I also have some of the other problems you mention eg pixellation on fast moving etc. with PP on but I can live with these as having reviewed just about every other 36" they ALL have one problem or another, I am convinced there is not a single set that really is faultless and ultimatly the time comes when you pay your money for the best set that you see/test at the time and hopefully you will be happy with this, if not then maybe there really is nothing out there that will 'make the grade', alternativly spend £10K for a top spec Plasma!!! :D
     
  6. Jon Weaver

    Jon Weaver
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    This is VERY strange... I would assume that its only my TV which has the 'fault'.. However, as I said, a visit to Currys confirmed that theirs did it too.

    If some owners have TVs which don't do this, then I can only assume that this is restricted to a 'batch'.

    The strange thing is that if I switch from PP+ to '100hz Digital Scan', the "wobble" goes away.. This was true for mine and the TV in Currys.

    I think that I will do some more tests using a known NTSC source on a few TVs in local shops and see if I can build up a pattern (I will get some serial nos too).

    Other than this, I am happy with the TV.. I do get distracted by the artifacts the P+ introduces, but I can live with it.. But the wobble, is unacceptable to me!

    I really hope that somone out there has a new (i.e a few weeks old) 9607 and is able to confirm that they have or don't have the same problem as me!
     
  7. philipb

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    Here comes one of those "really gets up your nose" smug posts, but I tried a R1 NTSC disc last night on my 9607 (Apocalypse Now redux) and no wobbles. Also no stutters and no hum.
     
  8. Jon Weaver

    Jon Weaver
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    Doesn't get up my noise at all. Infact I am happy.. After all, if the 9607 doesn't generally do this, then there must just a 'faulty' batch...

    I think that it would be worse if EVERYONE confirmed that they had the wobble, then I would know I would have to live with it.

    I am 100% sure that this is a problem because as I have already mentioned, the one in Currys does this too.

    I just have to wait for the engineer to talk to Philips to find out why some do and some don't.

    Philip. how old is your 9607??
     
  9. nictry

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    Jon,

    I seem to remember Philipb got his about a week before me, we were one of the first few on the forums to get them so this would have been about 4-5 months ago when they had just been released.
     
  10. philipb

    philipb
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    Well remembered nictry, got it in June.
     
  11. Jon Weaver

    Jon Weaver
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    Its very possible that I have over exagerated how bad this problem is.

    Last night I finally got round to watching my first R1 DVD.

    As soon as the menu was up, I could immediatly see that picture wobbling.

    However, I was close to the TV at the time.

    What I got back to my seat (About 8 feet way) it was debatable whether the wobble was all that noticable.

    When the film started and the picture was moving, there was no way of seeing the wobble.

    I am definatly, not imaginging it, as when I put on a still picture on a 50hz source, the picture is TOTALLY stable.

    When I do the same with a 60hz source, there is definatly a wobble.. However, when I put the TV in "100hz Dig. Scan" mode, the picture is as stable as it is when watching 50hz material.

    Can someone with a 9607 please have a CLOSE look at the edges of the picture when they have a 60hz (NTSC) static image on the screen.

    Whilst the problem is not as bad as I thought, I am still obviously worried, as all my 60hz material is not as perfect as it could be.
     
  12. Nyquil Driver

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    Hey Jon,

    I read your previous thread about this with great interest and I was intending to post that I'd never had any trouble with NTSC material either (I have a 9617).

    BUT!, after a very close inspection, I have to say that the 'wobble' you describe actually IS present when playing R1 discs (it's fractionally worse with higher contrasts). I think people are probably confused by your description though, as it certainly isn't noticeable when watching the set normally. My own theory on it is that it's just a side effect of the 60Hz display (P+ is only 60hz with NTSC sources in the same way 'Doublelines' is only 50Hz with Pal). The sides of the picture may appear slightly more flickery because the screens are centrally focussed. Obviously the flicker is absent with the digital scan mode because it runs at 120Hz. Similarly, Pal P+ is perfectly stable because it runs at 75Hz...

    So, I agree that there is a VERY minor display glitch when using P+ with 60Hz material, but it's not something that spoils regular viewing IMO. I have to specifically look for it to see it myself as I'm fairly tolerant of low refresh rates and my eyes are naturally drawn to the centre of the screen. Perhaps the phenomenon is more pronounced on the 36" versions? or maybe you're hyper-sensitive to the flicker?. Does the 50Hz Doublelines mode look terrible to you or is it fairly stable?, as the only real difference there (when compared to P+ 60hz) is that the flicker is evident on the whole picture.
     
  13. astonbilla

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    Guys, i was talking to richer sounds yesterday about ordering a 9607. The guy told me a new batch ahad arrived. According to him a whole load were recalled to have updated firmware put on??!?. I don't know if this is true at all but the guy i deal with has always been honest and very informative.

    Hope this helps

    Bill
     
  14. Jon Weaver

    Jon Weaver
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    I am glad that someone has been able to confirm my findings, although I am not 100% sure that we are talking about the same thing, as you talk about 'flicker' and there is no way that I would describe what I am seeing a 'flicker'.

    The problem I have can only been seen when there is something static at the edges of the screen.

    Imagine a computer game with some kind of "fixed graphics".. Perhaps a speed or score indicator.. Whilst the 'wobble' can't be seen on the moving parts of screen, the 'fixed graphics' can be seen to be 'wobbling' left and right.

    The worst example of this was seen when I was looking at the AVIA test-cards.. One of the grid patters had a vertical line right at the edge of the screen.. As the picture was wobbling, the line was disappearing on/off the side of the screen and looked like it was flashing.

    As soon as you supply 50hz material, or put the TV in '100hz Dig Scan', the picture is ROCK steady.. its just in P+ that this happens.

    There is no doubt that it doesn't spoil 'moving video'.. But it is horribly apparant when there is something static on the screen (i.e a DVD menu).. Its especially noticable when there is something REALLY close to the edge, so that it keeps appearing/disappearing (approx 3-5 times per second) off the side of the screen.
     
  15. Nyquil Driver

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    Maybe I should have said 'instability' rather than 'flicker', but it's exactly the same as you describe (although not quite as extreme).

    I first noticed it on my DVD player's set-up menu, as it has a selection of icons down either side. I could see that the icons weren't perfectly still when outputting in NTSC, yet looked fine in Pal. I have to re-affirm that the problem isn't quite a 'wobble' (not in my case at least) and I'd be happier describing it as an instability issue. I'm convinced that the lower refresh rate plays a part though because that would explain why you see it on all other P+ sets aswell, while others can't see it at all (IMO, 60Hz isn't quite high enough for a 36" screen). If I concentrate solely on the sides of the picture then I can definitely see the disparity, but it's not the kind of thing that I'd notice otherwise.

    I certainly wouldn't recommend swapping for a different make/model (just in case that's what you're considering!) as most other CRT's have much more intrusive issues. If the problem is as bad as you say, then maybe a different 9607 (or some engineer tweaking) is the answer. Good luck either way, as it certainly sounds like it's ruining your appreciation of the set...
     
  16. Jon Weaver

    Jon Weaver
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    That sounds about right. Looks like we are talking about the same thing.

    Don't get me wrong, I still appreciate the set, I am just worried as NTSC/PAL60 sources are not as perfect as they can/should be..

    The fact that I have gone down the R1 route and 90% of my DVDs are NTSC, now means that most of my DVDs aren't as perfect as their PAL counterparts.

    In the past, the choice between R1 and R2 was easy.. R1 won hands down. Now I am not so sure.. PAL (R2) is now going to be an obvious choice as the picture is that little bit more stable than the R1 equivelent.

    I still hope that something can be done to improve the situation.
     

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