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Philips 32PW9616 tubes

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by Zacabeb, Jan 17, 2002.

  1. Zacabeb

    Zacabeb
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    I upgraded to a 32PW9616 from a brand new 32PW8707 which had problems displaying 60Hz signals. Instead of selecting a different brand, I decided to stick with Philips in favour of their Real Flat picture tube (aka Cybertube), since I found it almost entirely flat behind the glass and be among the most vibrant of the flat tubes. I also looked at Sony sets, but felt their picture is too harsh and I wasn't impressed with the specs of their digital processing.

    Before I made the upgrade I thoroughly researched the 32PW9616, reading reviews, looking at it in stores and finding out what was inside. I even looked down the vents of every 32PW9616 I found (7 in total) to find out what tube was inside. In all cases it was the Philips Cybertube in two variants (W76ERF041X044 in the newer sets, W76ERF031X044 in the older ones).

    However, when I got my 32PW9616 the picture tube was dramatically different, it's not at all flat behind the glass and the picture is fuzzy and impure, much like an uncalibrated projection TV. I have raised the sharpness to max and I still feel the picture is pretty crummy. On the 32PW8707 I had the sharpness set to the next lowest setting since it had the least impact on the picture. The core processors in those two sets are identical, and I've tried turning off all extra features like DNR and Natural Motion without the picture getting any sharper.

    I looked down the vents and was shocked to find that the tube inside is a Panasonic Quintrix F (type number W76EKW10X73). When I've seen this tube in Panasonic's sets it's sharper but I never liked it. Ironically, I culled Panasonic off my wishlist since I wasn't happy with the lesser flatness of their internal tube faces.

    Has anyone else had this experience and/or know what has Philips install faulty tubes from a competitor, in what is still one of their most advanced sets?
     
  2. Zacabeb

    Zacabeb
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    I figured I should mention that the specific typenumber of the TV is 32PW9616/12M. I wonder if the M is related to the change of picture tube and other possible nasty internal alterations?

    If anyone else here has a fairly new 32PW9616, say up to 6 months old, I would be very happy if you could check the make and type number of the tube in your set. The label can be seen through the vents, on the right side (when standing in front of the set). On the tube's left side is a chassis sticker which specifies some stuff about the TV, including the full model number.
     
  3. ums69

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    I bought my Philips 9616 in Sweden 4 days ago and saw that something was wrong with the tube. Not so flat as I saw earlier in stores and some huge geometry problem. After I read about the cheating with the tubes in the factory, i checked my TV. Picturetube number; W76EKW10X73 and model 9616/12M and date 9 oktober 2001(from the servicemenu). This is awful of Philips and tomorrow monday they will hear of me !
     
  4. ums69

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    After contact with Philips in Sweden (even the mainoffice) they just say "if you not happy you have to contact the store where you bought the TV " They dont know anything about that Panasonics tube have replace the Philips RealFlat Blackline S tube.
    They just dont care about customers who have spent a lot of money on their HighEndModel.....ha ha ha ha
    I have been fooled again. This is great. I love Philips. Specially when their websites in Holland and Belgium still claims that 9616 have RealFlat Blackline S tube....
     
  5. Zacabeb

    Zacabeb
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    I honestly think their customer support is fully unaware of the issue.

    I went back to the store today to discuss replacements and they're going to try finding a set with the right CRT - which means they'll fax the order department at Philips tomorrow and find out what parts are inside given the serial numbers. They'll get back to me on Wednesday.

    The first thing they did however, was to call up Philips customer support and ask them. The guy at Philips pulled the same old story; "All Philips products are built to the same high quality standards ... the CRT is made by Panasonic according to Philips specs". I spoke to him and floored that argument as before; I have datasheets for both CRT's and know they're different.

    While in the store I found something new disturbing stuff. I saw the 36" model of the PW9765 and it appeared to have a non-Philips CRT. I've noticed that before in the 36" model and I don't know whether Philips ever made it with a CRT of their own make.

    Curious as to whether it was a Panasonic CRT I looked down the vents. There I found something outrageous:

    [​IMG]

    Philips had stuck on the chassis sticker overlapping the CRT sticker, with dead-on accuracy to precisely cover the name of the CRT manufacturer. The CRT type code was still visible, and although I did not write it down I could tell it was not a Philips CRT. The family lettering in the code was different. I think it was a Panasonic, though I'm not sure. I am however sure the placement of the chassis sticker was no accident.

    Update: After checking MDDG's website, it seems the CRT was a Panasonic tube; W86LPX955X...
     
  6. Milhouse

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    Bought a 32PW9616/05M in December from HiSpek in the UK and it has a W76EKW10X73 tube so it looks like it's a Panasonic tube :(

    Must admit however that I don't find the picture objectionable, but if the tube is of a lesser quality than Philips would otherwise supply then either they should stop supplying it, or come clean.
     
  7. Zacabeb

    Zacabeb
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    When the CRT is up to spec, it should be a tad bit sharper than the Philips CRT, but it's not as flat. Both of these likely have to do with Panasonic giving their CRT's a finer dot pitch (0.67mm at center vs. the 0.7mm Philips use). I guess both are fair tradeoffs, but they are indeed there and make a visible difference. If you're happy with your Panasonic CRT you should be. It's not bad.

    Half of the reason I'm angry is that I chose a Philips over a Panny because of preferring a flatter image, half the reason is that the CRT I got is not up to spec...

    Funny enough, the reason I was so well aware of the differences to notice them right away, was that Philips themselves have done quite a marvellous job bragging about them. Did they ever paint themselves into a corner. Let's go back in time a year and-a-half and have a look;

    http://www.news.philips.com/mondial/archive/2000/september/artikel4_1.html

    Step a little forward to a year ago, and this EDTN article;
    http://ww4.infoxpress.com/cmp/wniebg/buyersguides/bg1/listing1.asp?l=5990

    Fascinating how Philips' view on the issue suddenly changed even though the CRT's didn't.
     
  8. ums69

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    Royal Philips Electronics said:

    "Unlike competitors' products, which can seem cylindrical or hollow-- even when the face of their tube really is flat--the Cybertube projects a perfectly flat image that is sharp right up to the edges and shows remarkably lifelike pictures,"

    and finally;

    "The Cybertube is the only television tube that projects a perfectly flat image," said Philips. The monitor's Gun Pitch Modulation (GPM) system, it said, gives the TV picture the best possible purity. And, said the company "the flat exterior surface and slightly curved interior surface of the screen drastically reduces the tube's weight."

    Ok, now I understand the reason why Philips put in Panasonics tubes in 9616 because of...of.....what ??? :mad: :eek:
     
  9. Zacabeb

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    After reading Philips' reply to the issue of switching CRT supplies I'm pretty much speechless. I can say this much: If Philips consider their own components lesser than the competition, you may as well get a different brand from the start.

    I must also say I'm surprised at how Philips changed their mind all of a sudden. As you can tell by the links above, this was certainly not their opinion a year ago. If Philips truly do consider Panasonic CRT's to be better, why do they so carefully try to cover it up? Look at my drawing of the 36" CRT above. It certainly doesn't look like Philips are genuinely proud to have a competing brand CRT inside their most expensive sets.

    It's insane how they take it upon themselves to alter their product specs inside a particular model on the basis of what they think is better. That's not up to them to judge, it's up to us, the consumers. They design something, build it, if we like it better than the rest we buy it. If we prefer something else we'll get something else. Apparently people preferred the 32PW9616 and its silbings so much that it got 'best buy' stamps in reviews, major kudos and an EISA award. That in competition with Panasonic TV's, using the same CRT to which Philips have now switched.

    Also I find it interesting how they ignore to inform their retailers about the change. Most retailers have had their display 9616's and sibling models for a while. Before I bought the 32PW9616 I looked at sets on display in the following stores - all of them had Cybertubes;

    Audio Video (PUB Bohagshuset), Hötorget They have since sold their display set
    El-Giganten, Barkarby
    El-Giganten, Kungens Kurva
    Expert, Kungens Kurva
    NK Ljud och Bild (NK), Kungsträdgården They thought a CRT change was so unlikely in this model they refused to believe me!
    OnOff, Abrahamsberg
    Power (City Stormarknad), Barkarby

    Well, I guess the TV is going back to the store. What brand I'll get instead - I don't know. Whether I'll buy Philips products again - I cannot tell. Whether I'll call their customer support tomorrow and give them the third degree - I do know. I will.
     
  10. deff

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    Zacabeb I Bought a 32PW9616/05M in Jan from HiSpek in the UK and it has a W76EKW10X73 tube so it looks like it's a Panasonic tube

    The pictures are not bad but I bought this tv on the strength of the reviews I read. If there has been changes since these reviews than I will like to know if this tele is still rated after the cahnges.

    What is the number to call Phillips?

    Deff
     
  11. Zacabeb

    Zacabeb
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  12. ums69

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    After 3 weeks waiting for the officiall statement from Philips in Sweden about replacement of the Cybertube they write to me in a letter as follow ;

    "All manufacturers of TV have components inside from different brands. No manufacturers says anything about this and Philips either. We even think that Philips 32/36 TV have the same high picture quality regardless if there are Philipstube or Panasonictube inside. If you have any other question please contact us again."

    I have now returned the "Panasonic" PW 9616/12M.


    :rolleyes:
     

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