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Philips 32PW9509 P+2 First impressions

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by bazzae123, May 3, 2004.

  1. bazzae123

    bazzae123
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    First impressions are very good after some initial disappointments namely the RGB( only having one) issue and my taking for granted the set would have PIP. It only has dual text and picture.
    The other disappointment is still the auto switching from 16:9 to 4:3. Its either one or the other it WILL NOT automatically change from 4:3 to 16:9. Philips assumes you want to watch every thing stretched out to fit the screen.

    The most striking improvement are on terrestrial broadcasts. The picture is more lifelike and doesn't look so processed as on P+1. Some shots on Eastenders still look a little dark but its such a depressing show anyway who could blame it. I watched the football on Saturday night and was truly impressed. Although there was some smearing on the ball it was no way as bad as the P+1 and even camera shoots of players running with the crowd in the background were impressive. I watched the motor bike racing on Sunday night and had to smile. The colours were very good and the movement was stable to say the least.
    On the down site, Snooker was a little disappointing although the colours are good with skin tones being nature looking there was a lot of smearing on fast moving balls but saying this its evident on a lot of 100Hz TVs.

    Just getting back to the colours for a minute. Although, I'm still tinkering with the settings it did first appear that the whites were a little over powering, a bit like the PD30, but I think this is more to do with get the setting right and allowing the TV to settle down a bit. If anybody has any views on "running in a TV" I would like to hear them. Apart from that the colours seem to be more nature than P+1.

    Now on to the motion control. From what I've seen so far it looks like a lot of effort has gone in to getting this better. The "video look" has been reduced quite considerably on the material I've seen so far but the 3D effect is still present. Movement, although not perfect at times is a lot better and this is backed up by my viewing experience with the football. One bad point to mention though is still the presence of the Hallo effect but even this has been reduced to a certain extent but its still there. If you read in future magazine articles that it totally gone then it's a lie.

    Sound appears to be OK but I was disappointed that the spec only details two speakers where as the 9528 has six.
    As for looks, I think the TV is a real stunner. It looks a lot better than the picture make it out to be. I like it.

    Although, its still early days, I think the picture improvements far out weight the absence of any PIP and speakers. If it turns out the set only has one RGB socket, this I can live with but it would surprise me that Philips would release a new top end TV with only one RGB scart.

    Oh, one other thing that I should mention. During the initial set-up on Friday the TV did turn itself off and then straight back on again and decided to show only a B/W picture on all inputs. This was only cleared by turning the set off and then one again. I must say this was during the set-up and I was in the menu modes when this happened and it hasn't done it since.

    I haven't really played with DVD yet but what I have seen has been very good so I've left it alone at present as my main viewing is through terrestrial and satellite.

    If anybody needs to know any thing that haven't covered, or would like me to expand on a certain area please let me know. Although I have a electronic background my knowledge of the workings of TV are very limited so forgive me if I can't talk to technical. Also, my views are subjective to what I like to see and may differ from somebody else's but still feel free to ask.

    Bazza:smashin:
     
  2. vivaatloni

    vivaatloni
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    Th bazzae 4 the review. It looks very good so far.
    What setting did you use in the menu.
    pixelplus 2 or movie plus? I read in the manual that you can select this.
     
  3. happyblob

    happyblob
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    Thanks for posting your impressions. I am interested in buying this TV.

    Could you be more specific about the 4:3 16:9 issues. What are all the possible modes? My preference would be to see 16:9 fill the screen (obviously) and 4:3 to have vertical bars on the sides so that the aspect ratio is correct. Is this achievable:

    a) Automatically
    b) By pressing a button on the remote every time.
    c) Not at all - i.e. 4:3 is always stretched fat.

    Loewe TVs appear to have a mode where it can detect a 4:3 picture is actually letterbox and will resize to fit the screen. This can be useful for DVDs that are not anamorphic. Does the Philips have anything like that?

    Cheers
     
  4. Cynthia 7

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    Hi bazza,

    A great review of the new Pixel +2 9509. A few disappointments but the picture sounds really good and I know you have a critical eye.

    The May issue of What Video mentions the Philips DVDR80 and I wonder if you had bought this recorder, hence your connection problems. It seems the problems lie in connecting to a
    Sky box. This is probably well known on this forum, but I had considered buying this recorder in the near future and was unaware of this problem.

    I do hope you get a response from Philips re the Scarts and it can be easily remedied. Now, I am longing to know - are you keeping this one!!!!
     
  5. Will_Marsh

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    Thanks for such a detailed review, any more news. I'd like to say that a review on these forums is worth far more than from the various magazines. I'm not saying they are bad but, more often than not, they take a very technical approach to reviewing, whereas, what we want is "does the picture look good" and "how does it handle different scenes" in the opinion of someone paying for the sets.

    Have you had any more news on the RGB scart issue, I remember the 9308 also stating that it had 3 scarts in the Product spec sheet but actually only having 2 (1 RGB).

    This won't interest you but I've got a fairly detailed picture that I thought may interest those thinking of buying (a little smaller than the original 14Mb d/l).

    Could you post some other pics from other angles if you get a chance.

    Thanks, looks like you get the prize for first 9509 review anywhere!
     

    Attached Files:

  6. tutu

    tutu
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    Thanks for the review and the picture - it's nice to see what it looks like as most results returned from google are of such a poor quality that you can't make the picture out!

    I am still very much indecisive on which TV to get, but I desperate to buy something to celebrate passing teacher training! I have to replace this archiac TV at all costs. But it seems you can't get what you wan't these days - all I wan't is a P+2 set with dolby digital really. But then again, maybe a iDTV set? oh, I don't know..

    Certainly the 9509 is a possibility with a seperate AV, not that I actually have much room for one.. hell I could get rid of the VHS.. it is a bit archiac technology too ;)
     
  7. bazzae123

    bazzae123
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    First can I answer a couple of points already asked,

    happyblob,

    There are the various options available i.e. subtitle zoom, 16:, 4:3, Wide screen Etc but the TV will not automatically switch between 16:9 and 4:3. You will have to call up a menu and select the mode yourself. Its a real pain. If you have "Automatic" selected if just fills the screen not mater what the material format is.

    vivaatloni,

    I tried both settings, and to be honest, couldn't see the difference between them.


    Cynthia 7, Am I going to keep this one? Good question. Some dealts are starting to creep in.


    Ok Guys, for a quick update.

    The other night while watching "Rain of Fire" on Sky I noticed while the screen was dark, yes you guessed it, two distinct black bars running horizontally down the picture. I've also noticed these when some screens fad to dark before a new scene is displayed. I don't know if other TV's display these bars but I've only read about them on Philips sets. Is this true? Another thing that I've also noticed is my eyes start to get sore after looking at the set for a couple of hours and this may be the reason why I keep trying to get the picture more sharper. It appears to more grainy than the 32PW9528 I had. The reason I can say this now is I managed to watch several films on Sky that I've seen before on the old 9528 and have been impressed by the picture clarity but now seeing them again on the 9509 just doesn't seem to be so sharp. Another way I've checked this is by going into the menu on the SKY box. The blue and yellow text is not as sharp as I remember it and the transition between text and background appears uneven.

    So, where do I go from here. I haven't got a clue. I know one thing though, having weighed up all the pros and cons between the 9509 and the 9528 my head is telling me that the 9528 is the better buy. The 9528 has a better sound system (6 speakers), more functions (PIP),better connectivity (2 x RBG + 1 x S-video all on different scarts) and a slightly better picture on SKY RGB but not on terrestrial over the 9509.

    If I notice any thing more I'll let you know.

    Bazza :suicide:
     
  8. vivaatloni

    vivaatloni
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    Thx Bazzae,

    This morning I saw the 9509 in the shop with a 9527 next to it. I watched it 4 almost 20 minutes on different channels. I was totaly impressed with the 9509. It was a panasonic tube and I didn't notice the black bars.

    So the last reaction from bazzae suprised me. Bummer, now the choice is difficult again.
     
  9. vivaatloni

    vivaatloni
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    BTW what is terrestial?
    In holland we only have sattelite and normal cable television. Can someone explain?
     
  10. happyblob

    happyblob
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    Thanks, Bazza, for your reply. I'm starting to go off this TV. What is the point in a perfect picture that is out of proportion!

    The Philips brochure for this model mentions the following "Wide screen modes":

    4:3
    Zoom 14:9
    Zoom 16:9
    Subtitle Zoom
    Super Zoom
    Widescreen

    Is there another setting "Auto" that chooses what Philips think this the best mode? Could you please explain the difference between each mode. Sorry to labour this point, but is probably the one issue that might decide me against purchasing a Philips TV.

    vivaatloni -

    Terrrestrial is when you receive the picture via an aerial on the roof of your house. Analogue terrestrial is something that all televisions can receive. Digital terrestrial is called Freeview in the UK and to receive this you either need an IDTV (Integrated Digital TV) or a set-top-box.
     
  11. bazzae123

    bazzae123
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    Hi vivaatloni,

    Sorry about the negative comments in my last update. I'm sitting here thinking what to do about keeping this one or going back to the 32PW9528. I would ideally like to see them side by side and make the comparisons. I fear that I may go back to the 9528 and find it wasn't as good as I remember. Don't forget I've been renting a Sony FX68 for a couple of months. The other question I keep asking myself is should I give up on this extra pixel lark and get a standard 100Hz set, say a Loewe.
    As for the black bars, you might not see them in a shop as the picture and surrounding have to be darkish. I usually watch TV with the lights turned down low using a dimmer switch, by the way, have you seen the 32PW9528 to compare pictures?
    If anything else comes up I'll let you know.

    Bazza
     
  12. bazzae123

    bazzae123
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    HI happyblob,

    If you have a look here http://www.p4c.philips.com/ you can download the user manual which may explain the differences better than I can. As for the "Auto" mode this is the one I called automatic. It takes any broadcast and enlargers it to fill the screen even if the original broadcast was in 4:3. This is a very annoying thing about some Philips TV's. I like to watch a 4:3 as 4:3 not enlarged to fill the screen. I can do this in 4:3 mode but then if I go to a movie channel that's broadcasting in 16:9 I have to go into the menu and change the setting. Then if I go back to a 4:3 I have to do the same thing again i.e. change the menu option.
     
  13. happyblob

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    Thanks for that link. The manual is very helpful. I wonder how successful the Super Zoom mode is. This seems to stretch the sides and leaves the centre alone.

    Do you know which of the modes the Auto function picks when given a plain full 4:3 picture? If it used Super Zoom that might not be too bad.

    What do you see when watching a 14:9 analogue picture (e.g. BBC News) Does Auto pick the Movie Expand 14:9 mode?

    Cheers
     
  14. vivaatloni

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    Ok. I have a terrestial signal only and a xbox. So that's a good thing.

    Bazzae:
    I only saw a 9527, so not the better 9528. The 9528 was standing 3 meters further away. But I really thought that the 9509 looked better than both of them.
    I really wouldn't go for the not pixel enhancement sets, since you are used to more detail now. Though Loewe is very good.

    In holland I can do an IVF callibration of my set. I hope this makes the black bars dissapear. Do you see these black bars all the time or only on very dark scenes and from a cerain distance?
     
  15. bazzae123

    bazzae123
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    I've only seen them through my Sky box when the picture fads to another and there is a prolonged absence of picture. I've also noticed then to some extent when a film finishes and the credits are rolling . At a certain blackness you can see two shadow like bars of about half a inch wide. I think the problem I have now is I know the position of the lines in relationship to the screen so every time the picture darkens my eyes immediately focus on these areas. It didn't bother me at first as I had never seen them during a film until last night when I watched "Rain of Fire". I sit about six feet away from the TV and they are quite apparent when the conditions are right i.e. darkish scenes. I would really like to know the mechanics behind this problem so if anybody has any info please could you let me know. I understand from reading other threads relating to black bars on Philips sets that Philips deny all knowledge of the problem.

    Bazza :(
     
  16. vivaatloni

    vivaatloni
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    So with terrestial and DVD you didn't notice the bars. So it is not as bad as in the pixel plus topic.
    Philips has a solution 4 the bars, mentioned by doggydawn:
    FIRST. the guy at philips, his name is consumer service GMBH mr philips LOLOL
    if you read it all, you can see that philips knew about the problem (as we all expected ) from the start, but would not own up to it. this copy of the report from them is the smoking gun.
    how can they have a fix for a problem that is not there ???
    just one thing...what does the comp filter do exactly ? any info would be great, I havent checked yet if they turned it off, as I need the code to get in the menu.
    anyways here is the fix.

    cure
    change the following components on ssp, component side.
    change position 2566 and 3566 into 1k (4822 051 30102)
    (replace capacitor by resistor)
    remove position 2246

    change the following components on the ssp soldering side.
    change position 3208 and 3227 into jumper (4822 051 20008)
    change position 3212 and 3231 into 75 ohm (4822 117 11927)
    add jumper on position 4228 (4822 051 20008)

    change the following components on the side I/O
    change position 3815 into 75 ohm (4822 117 11927)
    change position 3816 into jumper (4822 051 20008)

    with these changes, the black bars and shading effects are less visible.
    to make the bars almost completely invisible, the comp filter can be disabled.
    to disable the comp filter the following procedure must be followed.

    enter the service alignment menu
    select alignments
    select options
    select video repro
    toggle between yes/no to disable the comp filter

    chassis
    mg3.2e

    problem area
    system control section

    reference number
    he-02/0020

    modifications date 12.05.2002

    They do say see picture, but there are no pictures on the report .
    good luck to you all.

    P.S JUST NOTICED THIS ADDY ON THE BOTTOM OF THE REPORT, BUT CANT GET IT TO LOAD.

    http://130.140.204.40/isis/silverst...mcurefinal.html

    PPS.
    just got into the menu, and the comp filter is on, which is cool, coz I cant see any lines with it on.


    Last edited by DoogyDawg on 23-07-2003 at 06:30 PM
     
  17. Will_Marsh

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    Sorry to hear the BB problem still persits. One would have hoped that Philips had got its act together for these new versions, Obviously not!! Just to clarify, are the BB only visible with Sky source and not DVD and terrestrial broadcasts?

    Thanks
     
  18. vivaatloni

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    I also think it is not as bad as with the post I see in the pixel plus thread. Bazzae only sees them with subtitles at the end of the movie. So I assume Philips knows of the problem with the bars & makes them less noticable.

    Hope so.
     
  19. andrewhi

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    Hi Bazza,

    Could you try the following (if you haven't already), to see if it achieves what you want:

    Use the picture format button to cycle and select 4:3 mode.
    Pause... wait for menu to disappear (TV set to constant 4:3)
    Press the picture format twice again, first time just displays your current mode, second time selects 'automatic' mode.

    TV hopefully now in automatic mode; with default set to 4:3

    4:3 broadcasts = 4:3 picture mode
    4:3 broadcasts with black bars = automatic resize
    digital broadcasts with widescreen signal = widescreen mode
     
  20. vivaatloni

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    Hi there Bazzae,

    Do you already know if you keep the set?
    Do you have more experiences. I am curious!!!

    grtz Viva
     
  21. bazzae123

    bazzae123
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    Hi andrewhi,

    Thanks but it didn't work. On the first press it brings up your current setting again but then the second press just moves it on to the next setting, which in this case is "Movie expand 16:9". Oh well back to the drawing board.

    Hi vivaatloni,

    Things are starting to make me smile again. The TV seams to have settled down a bit now. The picture is really nice and sharp, apart form the occasional hallo effect. It may be that I'm a bit more used to it but it dose seem that the focus issue has sorted it self out, if that's possible. Anyway, I had the TV guy from comet around to day to look at the RBG issue. Philips had phoned me to say the TV should have two RGB capable sockets. The only problem is I had two calls from Philips and one guy said the second RGB was on ext2 and the second guy said ext3. Me and the Comet guy can only find one. The only solution he said was to try another set. Now that my new problem. Do I try another set and find its got the same problem, but also something else throne in as well, like a dirty screen effect, or do I try and find one in a shop and check out the sockets on that.

    I'll let you know the outcome, if I can decide myself.

    Bazza
     
  22. Duddiman

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    Hi all

    Relly more a question than a reply, anyways here goes

    I`m the happy owner of the new 9509 32" model residing in Denmark , but in the service menu the setting for picture size says 28" , is it safe to alter the setting to the correct size namely 32" without fearing a meltdown of the set :eek:
     
  23. wilson

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    bazzae123, why not stick the FX68?

    Ive looked at reviews now for numerous sets (pd30, 9509, JVC 32D40, Sony FQ70 etc). And they all seem to have problems.

    Im currently thinking 9509, 9618 (discontinued - so may be hard to get one from JL on price match) or the FX68!
     
  24. tutu

    tutu
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    I haven't seen any reviews for the 9509 or HD40? Where can I find them? thx
     
  25. aekostas

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    Has anybody carried out the following mod, or am I looking for trouble here? :suicide:

     
  26. stonkin

    stonkin
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    ...something to celebrate passing teacher training...

    Congratulations. I just love the way you've demonstrated how NOT to construct sentences, use apostrophes, spell A-R-C-H-A-I-C ...

    Sorry, I just couldn't resist.:devil:
     
  27. aekostas

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    Not many people will care anymore, but here goes: I bought the 32PW9509 from http://www.electrical-deals.co.uk/ and I have only had it for 5-6 hours. I am unsure about the picture at the moment when it comes to DVD-recorded Freeview footie (halo being the main problem, but not on all the MOTD games; same broadcast!). My Freeview DVD recording of 101 Dalmatians was amazing though...

    This is a *big* beast! As big as our excitement about it, actually.
     
  28. CellarDoor

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    Any more views on this TV aekostas after having it for longer?
     
  29. aekostas

    aekostas
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    It still gives digital artifacts and I don't expect this to change. It happens with quick pans in an otherwise steady take; probably does not detect them fast enough to adjust whatever it adjusts. I am not sure they are not common 100Hz symptoms; I went from a bog-standard 21" to this Pandora-box so I would not know.

    It still amazes us in most cases; with the right broadcast you start believing you are having visitors. It has loads of settings that one can try (the combinations are virtually endless) if they do not like what they are seeing. Liv-Man U was good on Saturday, well, apart from the :devil: abysmal performance.
     

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