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Philips 32PW6517 flashing screen problem?

Discussion in 'TVs' started by Tel boy, Nov 17, 2003.

  1. Tel boy

    Tel boy
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    Hi all,
    Have just got a new Philips 32PW6517 TV.

    Only having had the TV a few days my initial impressions are good, however tonight I have noticed a strange thing.
    When you are watching a programme if the scene changes from a dark scene to a bright scene the screen seems to flash brightly for a split second before it drops down to the correct brightness / contrast level.

    EXAMPLE:
    If on screen was a man with a dark shirt in front of a light / white background then the next scene was a man with a light shirt in front of the same background as the scene changes to the light shirt scene the screen of the TV seems to flash bright for a split second before it drops back to the correct level.

    The flash only happens if the scene changes quickly like from one camera angle straight to another, if the scene fades from one to the other it doesn’t happen.

    I hope I’m explaining this in a manner that you can understand but it’s a hard thing to describe :rolleyes:

    Has anyone out there with a Philips TV noticed anything like this?

    Regards, Tb
     
  2. Tel boy

    Tel boy
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    Come on Philips owners ..... I know you are out there :lesson:
     
  3. oopsnow2

    oopsnow2
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    I got the same TV mate, but can't say I noticed anything like that. I'll be watching more closely in future and let you know if I spot anything
     
  4. Tel boy

    Tel boy
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    Thanks.
    I would appreciate it if you could take a look & let me know, as I don’t want to get the TV replaced if all 6517 models do this.

    Cheers Tb
     
  5. ibrox

    ibrox
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    I`ll have a look as well but never noticed before.
    Probably notice all the time now + wish I never saw this as it may irritate me.(doubt it will irritate me though )
     
  6. Tel boy

    Tel boy
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    Hi all,
    I have been into 2 TV shops today that had the 32" 6517 on display & guess what, these TV’s also displayed this flashing characteristic :(

    I can’t seem to see the flashing on other makes Panasonic Toshiba etc., so I guess it’s just a Philips thing.

    I was thinking that maybe I had just got a bad set but unfortunately it doesn’t look that way.

    So my Philips 6517 is going back as I’m afraid I can’t put up with this manufacturing fault :( Arrrr...All I want is a TV that works properly with no buzzing, black bars on the screen, or flashing pictures! :rolleyes:

    I had better point out that at first I thought the flashing could be something to do with the “ Contrast +” or the “NR” (Noise Reduction) but the TV's still display’s the flashing with these features switched off.

    On the subject of features I find the lack of an un-tuned channel skip feature on the 6517 very disappointing, as you can’t just use the P+ to scroll through your tuned channels without having to go through the whole 100 channels.:confused:

    I apologise if I have brought the flashing screen problem to the attention of other 6517 owners that may not have otherwise noticed it :eek: Sorry.

    Regards, Tb
     
  7. ibrox

    ibrox
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    Hi Tel;You have not caused a problem by outlining this problem as far as I am concerned so please don`t feel sorry.

    However,from what I`ve read all T.V`s have some kind of idiosyncracy particularly those at the price level of the 6517 regardless of manufacturer.

    Anyway,hope you find something that suits you + when you do hope you come back + tell us.


    Maybe you`ll find a solution if you double your outlay if you are willing to do so.

    All the best.
     
  8. DoogyDawg

    DoogyDawg
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    not sure on this model, but if you have ACTIVE CONTROL, turn it off, its ****e anyways.
     
  9. philthyanimal

    philthyanimal
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    i have a philips 32" flat, can't remeber the model number, but i had a similar problem with white flashes. Engineer came out, turned down the contrast via service menu, then told me to set contrast no higher than 50.
    Not had a problem since. unless i ram contrast up.
     
  10. Tel boy

    Tel boy
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    Hi,
    I have tried turning the contrast down in the ordinary menu settings to just below 50, however the problem still seems to be there it’s just not so noticeable as the screen isn’t so bright.

    The flashing can be very distracting especially in a studio debate situation as most studios have brightly coloured backdrops & as the camera switches from one person you ( or should I say I) can’t fail to notice the flashing effect.

    Regard, Tb
     
  11. Wayne Moule

    Wayne Moule
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    What are your Brightness and Contrast values?
     
  12. DoogyDawg

    DoogyDawg
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    tel...
    when you say flashing, how do you mean ? what I mean is...say you have white text, say at the bottom of the screen, does that sort of flash ?
    its hard to explain, not flashing like on then off. but a sort of quick flashing. or if you have say a chrome bar in the shot, does that sort of flash ?
     
  13. Tel boy

    Tel boy
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    Wayne,
    Brightness – 50
    Contrast - 47

    DoogyDawg,

    It’s hard to explain (see my 1st post in this thread)

    The flashing isn’t limited to one item on the screen.

    If the scene changes from say an indoor scene to a bright outside scene as the brightness of the outside scene comes onto the screen all the bright parts on screen seem to flash for a split second.
    It’s as thought the TV is shocked by having to suddenly display a bright image & over compensates, then the levels drop to what they should be, as I say the effect is only for a split second but my eyes can pick it up & more so, so can her’s :rolleyes:

    Does that explain it any better, I know it’s as clear as mud isn’t it …lol

    Tb
     
  14. Wayne Moule

    Wayne Moule
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    God,they're low!

    Try the settings on Natural.

    It sounds like the current TV,as it's a very similar spec to mine which also flashes when there is a band of white across the bottom of the screen.I bought an iPlayer and it's virtually gone away now.My Grundig GDT 2000 had a very bright output,which the Philips didn't like.

    So the brightness output and quality of your external box's can make a huge difference.

    It could be SCAVEM causing it,as my last Philips had Crystal Clear III,which included SCAVEM and areas of brightness would make the foreground pic too dark and alternate between the two.
     
  15. Tel boy

    Tel boy
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    Hi Wayne,

    Yeah my contrast & brightness settings are low but I have set them at this to see if it stopped the flashing, but no joy.

    I have tried all of the TV’s preset picture settings Natural, Rich, etc., but these just make the flashing worse as most of these settings turn the contrast up well over 50.

    My preferred settings are:
    Brightness - 55
    Colour – 30
    Contrast – 60

    I suppose I could go into the service menu & turn the main contrast down as the engineer did on philthyanimal’s TV but is this not just the same as lowering the contrast in the ordinary menu settings? which hasn’t seemed to do anything except give me a washed out picture.

    I don’t know if my TV (6517) has SCAVEM, as there’s no mention of it in the crappy instruction manual, which details very little.

    Tb
     
  16. Wayne Moule

    Wayne Moule
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    Your pic must be very dark then.

    You're lucky,as mine used to flash uncontrolably for seconds at first,especially with the Tescos advert,via DTT in widescreen,with it's large white bar at the bottom of the screen.It seems to be worse in widescreen than in 4:3,presumably because more of the screen is covered.

    I must admit I had to set mine to near Soft values when I first got it.Our's are a similar if not identical spec,apart from yours having SCAVEM > http://www.electricaldiscountuk.co....99&PHPSESSID=085372735a30be267917e63f8a6c88dc .

    Have you tried the Soft pic setting and what sources are you viewing from.Have they got their own output Contast settings you can turn down.My Sky box and my DVD recorder have,which helps a little.

    I think mine has got a bit better over time,but my iPlayer has made the biggest difference.

    My old values were 46,60 and my new ones are 50,70 thanks to the iPlayer.
     
  17. Tel boy

    Tel boy
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    Yeah I must admit that I have on the odd occasion seen the screen flash uncontrollably, this mainly happens when displaying vivid contrasting colour mainly found on the adverts.

    But even when you are watching everyday ordinary TV you can keep noticing the flashing maybe would be better described as a surge in the brightness of the whole screen.

    I have tried the soft setting along with all the others but still the flashing is there.

    My source:
    I have tried my ITV digital box (Freeview) & ordinary analogue Ariel connection & there is no difference with the flashing with either of these.

    I wonder if it’s something to do with the SCAVEM system on the TV then?

    I wish manufactures would bin all this jiggery pokery that’s supposed to make TV pictures better as a lot of the time it does exactly the opposite & makes the picture worse.

    I think I’m going to have to say Bye Bye to my 6517 as there is no way I can put up with this flashing & reinstate my old trusty Toshiba 25" 4:3 set :rolleyes:

    Tb
     
  18. Wayne Moule

    Wayne Moule
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    Yes,get rid.Shame really,as mine is excellent now.
     
  19. Tel boy

    Tel boy
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    Wayne or anyone reading,

    Have you been into the service menu on your TV?

    I can get into mine by using the code 0 6 2 5 9 6 and then pressing the the [i+] button this brings up options on the screen with the letters “SAM” in the top right corner.

    The options on the screen are:

    Clear
    Options
    AKB
    Tuner
    White Tone
    Geometry
    Audio

    I have been into all of the above options (except Clear) but can’t seem to see very many settings to change, do you know how to get to all of the settings?

    Where are they hiding?

    Tb
     
  20. Wayne Moule

    Wayne Moule
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    I wouldn't risk messing with the service menu.If it's not right out of the box,ring an engineer for your problem.

    What make of ITV digital/Freeview box have you?

    I think these lower end TV's are designed for the higher value/specced range,as the extra processing can cut out the flashing you are seeing.

    Yours does seem worse than mine,but you do say it only lasts for a split second,which isn't too bad.

    Have you tried S-Video or RGB out?
     
  21. Tel boy

    Tel boy
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    Hi Wayne,
    I was interested in finding where in the service menu the setting is for the main contrast, I was going to try turning it down a bit like the engineer done on philthyanimal’s TV. However as I said in an earlier post I can’t see how altering the contrast in the service menu can be any different than altering it in the ordinary menu settings.
    To be honest I think I’m now just straw grasping as I really want to like the TV but fact is fact & the flashing / surging is a real distraction.
    I watched a little of the animated film “Ice Age” last night, this really made the flashing stand out as there are loads of white screen shots in the film, even turning the contrast down to 40! Did not stop the flashing.

    The ITV digital box I have is the Pioneer, I have switched this to RGB but the flashing / surging of the screen is still there. I don’t think its anything to do with input signal its just the way the TV handle’s bright screens.

    Regards, Tb
     
  22. Wayne Moule

    Wayne Moule
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    Well if you have to turn the Contrast down to 40,something is very wrong.I had to turn mine down to 60 at first,which is still higher than the Soft setting.

    What is your Brightness setting?

    Record the scenes it flashes in and then show it to an engineer.

    Or consider getting rid,or get an iPlayer,or see if gets better in time.

    To be honest it doesn't sound right at all and you'll have to ring for an engineer or change it.
     
  23. Tel boy

    Tel boy
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    I have the brightness set on 55, I have tried this on a lower setting but it made no difference.

    The TV was bought locally so I can just return it for a refund. I would try a replacement but as I pointed out I viewed a couple of 6517’s in different shops & they all display this flashing so I think it’s a design fault.

    I think I best get rid, it’s a shame as the TV looks nice & it wasn’t too expensive.

    The price was a big consideration as I think its very unwise at the moment to spend £1000 + on a CRT TV when you see how the price of Plasma screens is coming down, who knows….this time next year ;)

    By the way what is an iPlayer?


    Tb
     
  24. Wayne Moule

    Wayne Moule
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    Try and get a 50Hz Philips with Crystal Clear III then > http://www.robertwhyteltd.co.uk/shop2/wide/phi_32pw6515.htm

    iPlayer > www.netgem.com
     
  25. Tel boy

    Tel boy
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    Wayne,

    Thanks for the info on the iPlayer, seems like a nice toy!

    I have now returned the TV & am back on the 25" Tosh, which now looks like a 14" portable!

    Think I will see what the Jan sales have to offer before making any decisions.

    Thanks for your help & advice.

    Regards, Tb
     
  26. JohnC

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    **************************************************
    The symptoms described on this thread are a classic case of inter-electrode leakage of the CRT's grids inside the CRT, especially the control grid which controls brightness... this used to be a characteristic of an old worn out TV...
    Reducing the contrast and brightness may alleviate the condition but would never remove the condition altogether..
    I cannot be 100% sure on this as I'm going by your description only, but "in my opinion" as a retired TV engineer/enthusiast, I would say the CRT on your TV may be suffering from an "over drive" by the circuitry supplying the grids in the CRT beyond what the CRT was designed for,

    I will try to explain...... What produces dark and bright on a TV Screen is a change in voltage on the grids of the CRT!!. If that voltage exceeds what the CRT was designed for you can have a momentary short or flash-over between electrodes!!.... this can be just a fraction of a second but is enough to cause part or the whole picture to appear very bright for the duration of the short or flashover, which as I say usually lasts for a split second, after that the picture returns to normal, until the same thing happens all over again!!!!

    A sever case of this problem can cause rapid flickering for several seconds in the overall brightness of the picture!

    In mild cases it may not happen every time, and will totally dependant on a number of factors ranging from picture content, temperature and voltage levels at any given time... therefore it can also be "rare and random" in its behaviour!!
    **************************************************
    PS. this symptom can also be caused by components external to the CRT that are failing, but if that was the case it's more likely to be a completely random occurrence and not dependant on picture content.
     
  27. Wayne Moule

    Wayne Moule
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    Thanks for the reply.

    These are new TV's and of differing model numbers of the same Philips make.

    It does sound like a design oversight to me supplying the tube as you describe.

    I have found that adjusting the Contrast output of my external boxs from their menus cures this greatly.
     
  28. JohnC

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    **************************************************
    In that case, is it the CRT?..... as its very common to use the same model CRT in different models!
    On the other hand they also use the same circuitry in different models!!.

    Only a full investigation could prove one way or the other!!

    It doesn't need an "Einstein" to find out!!

    As you've mentioned! Cutting down the drive to the CRT by reducing especially the contrast will alleviate the condition! this will also extend the life of your CRT to boot!!

    Best wishes John
    **************************************************
     
  29. Wayne Moule

    Wayne Moule
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    Yes I'm sure you're right and it's something that Philips should have picked up between models perhaps.But perhaps they didn't have time for a fix.

    I've had a lot poor performing TV's recently and this one is the best for a long time,so I don't want to change anything about it,unless it goes bang of course.I did consider sending it back for repair when I first got it,but there is no guarantee that it would be fixed,or whether there is a fix yet and it might even come back worse or not how I like it.
     
  30. Tel boy

    Tel boy
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    Hi all,

    JohnC,
    Thank you for the excellent explanation of this problem.



    It seems funny that you mention this as I have read a few threads recently on this forum reporting blown tubes on Philips TV's.
    In one of these threads I seem to remember a reply from a TV engineer who pointed out that he has noticed a lot of Philips tubes failing early, be it in a Philips TV or any TV that uses a Philips tube!

    I also noticed that along side the instructions of the TV I had (32pw6517) was a booklet giving you the option to take out a warranty on the tube of the TV, I don’t know if other manufactures do this but it just seemed a bit strange to me.



    Yeah this is the effect that the Tesco’s advert gave, the screen just didn’t seem able to handle the bright blue screen with the white strip across the bottom with out giving a strobe effect across the whole screen.


    Overall John I would say that your diagnosis is spot on.



    Regards, Tb
     

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