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Philips 32PW 9536: Help me get a decent picture...

Discussion in 'General TV Discussions Forum' started by Wendelius, Mar 5, 2002.

  1. Wendelius

    Wendelius
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    I write this hoping some of you can provide some tips on how best to set-up this TV. It just arrived today (replacement by John Lewis for my Hitachi TV that blew up a couple of months ago).

    I watched Shrek and found the pictures really good. But tonight I started watching Sky Digital and I'm very disappointed.

    The picture has what I guess must be called an overly processed and noisy (grainy?) look. But since I'm not sure about the terms, let me explain:

    - People's faces and background seem to exhibit some dithering (not smooth transitions from colour to colour) and you can nearly see dots on the object/person.
    - There is a digital (as in, can't do straight lines, ...) look to some situations.
    - There is some very faint ghosting near people when they move.

    My wife compared it to watcing DVD movies on the computer (where we tend to get the dithering, jagged line look).

    I tried various things. The Natural Motion mode and the Digital Scan one seems to exhibit the problem more than plain 100Hz. I set the Digital Noise Reduction to a minimum. I also switched off the Active Control (automatically sets brightness/contrast/... base don signal and conditions) but am not sure whether that helped or not.

    But all this doesn't seem to improve the picture quality much. In fact, when you stand close to the TV and look at people's faces or hair when they move, you nearly feel like you're looking at a compressed computer picture (a bit fuzzy, blocks, ...).

    I can't remember my Hitachi looking like this. I know it's been a couple of months but I would remember. My Digibox is going in as RGB by the way.

    I then decided to check a movie DVD to see what faces would look like there. When I switch on the DVd Player, the inout doesn't appear as RGB but CVBS (and that wether I plug in the DVD in AV1 or 2). Does anyone know what this is?

    I then went directly to the scene where John Doe takes the cops to the desert. The electric lines are jagged, but I guess that this could be expected. However, even Freeman's hat seem to have jagged edges. And once again, the picture looks a bit blotchier than I remember. That's in plain 100Hz.

    I've read that this TV can display a very good picture. So what's happening here? Those problems are too obvious for such a costly TV, aren't they? Any idea what I need to change to fix all this? I certainly didn't expect Satellite and DVD to start looking like I'm dealing with a computer picture that's been compressed too much.

    Any help from knowledgeable Philips owners (and others) would be much appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Wendelius
     
  2. John Jennings

    John Jennings
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    Sky uses a lower bitrate than a DVD so it's normal to see compression artefacts when using a good TV with RGB. Was your old Hitachi a smaller TV, and was the tube getting a bit fuzzy (possibly not using RGB too)? That would have helped to disguise the compression artefacts a great deal.

    In my opinion you still can't beat a really good strong analogue TV signal (assuming you live in an area where you're lucky enough to get one).

    The reason you notice the same problems even more when wathcing on a computer is because monitors operate at a much higher resolution than a TV so it exaagerates the artefacts even further.

    In general, the better the TV/Monitor, the more it will exaagerate the problems with the picture.

    As for the other problems, it could just be a side effect of the 100Hz processing. I'm not a big fan of 100Hz, in my experience it just seems to exaagerate any slight flaw in a picture.
     
  3. Wendelius

    Wendelius
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    Hiya John,

    First of all, thanks for your reply.

    My old Hitachi, whilst very good (also 32" widescreen, 100Hz) was still a ladder or 2 down from the Philips in picture quality. So you make a good point there. Also, you're right in saying that the RGB scart on my old TV was used by the DVD player so Sky would have been using the second Scart.

    Also, I'm not usre if Hitachi's Progressive Scan is(was?) a pure 100Hz mode or one run in 50Hz.

    But last night was an eye opener then. I never actually saw the compression artefacts caused by Sky's low bitrate like yesterday. Faces could get very blocky at times when viewed close by.

    Well that's not a pleasant thought for the day. Good thing my wife watches Sky more than me. I'm more a DVD person. :)

    I'll experiment a bit more with the various modes. If any Philips owner has good suggestions on what works best for him/her, I'd be delighted to hear them.

    Best,
    Wendelius
     
  4. John Jennings

    John Jennings
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    Hmm, if faces are getting very blocky then maybe there is a problem with your set. You should only notice a little bit of blockiness around the edges of moving objects when you've got your face right up against the tely..
     
  5. Wendelius

    Wendelius
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    Well, by viewed close by, I meant with my face a bit less than 50cm away from the TV. I could definitely notice loss of detail around the eyes, nose, mouth, ... A bit like a JPG picture you compress too much if you've ever seen those. It made the face look blocky close by. Will watch some more tonight with a critical eye and try to see how bad it looks on Day 2.

    Wendelius
     
  6. Wendelius

    Wendelius
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    EDIT: Found out what the signal description means in the following TV review: http://www.whatvideotv.com/testbench/Televisions/Philips/Philips32PW953605.shtml

    CVBS = composite signal. Ewww!

    My DVD is a now older Pioneer 515. Are those maybe missing RGB capability?

    Thinking about it, could my player be partly to blame for the picture looking more jagged on my new screen if it doesn't have RGB?

    Wendelius
     
  7. Wendelius

    Wendelius
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    Well, just a quick note to update this thread in case it comes handy for someone else. I seem to have resolved the Sky picture problem at least.

    A combination of the Digital Scan mode, minimum picture processing (noise reduction, ...) and the Eco picture mode produces a softer cooler picture. This has the advantage of making all the blocks and the grain disappear. Once you get used to the slightly more muted colours, the picture is quite clean.

    As for the DVD, I'm currently blaming the jagged picture on my old Pioneer 515 and the composite signal (if nothing else, this is a good excuse to get myself a new player :) ). Once I get the new machine, I'll hopefully have that side of the problem resolved as well.

    Thanks again to John for chiming in with ideas.

    Wendelius
     
  8. John Jennings

    John Jennings
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    Just a thought, you have enabled RGB output on your DVD menu haven't you? Should be there on the 'Video' menu somewhere...

    Glad to hear you've got the other issues sorted though :)

    John
     
  9. Wendelius

    Wendelius
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    Alas, I've searched all over the (primitive) set-up menus for the DV515 and I didn't find a way to change the video output. You get as many audio options as you want (regarding DTS, MPEG, PCM, ...) but nothing on the video side.

    I also lost my user's guide when moving last year and Pioneer doesn't make them available for download so I'm unable to check whether it provides more information on the subject.

    So my player currently seems stuck on composite output.

    Time for a Pioneer DV545, methinks. :)

    Wendelius
     
  10. monitor

    monitor
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    i have this tv and have had it for about 14 months, i find the picture superb whatever i watch

    try the following
    natural motion on
    active control off or set to minimum
    dynamic contrat set off
    contrast on sky box set to meduim

    then go to the picture menu and set it up as follows , i got these settings by using a set up disc and at first you will think it is a bit dark but its its only cos most tv factory setting are set far too high and can shorten the life of the tube .

    contrast just below half way
    brightness just below the contrast level
    colour same as brightness level
    sharpness on the next to the lowest setting
    tint normal

    this should give you a great picture for sky , video ,tv and dvd

    try these levels or near them but don,t turn them up to high no matter how tempted you will get use to them.

    let me know how you get on
     
  11. monitor

    monitor
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    did you try the settings i posted if so what do you think ,did they work


    let me know how you get on
     
  12. Wendelius

    Wendelius
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    Hiya Monitor,

    Sorry for the late reply but I've been away from the forum for a couple of days. I'll give your settings a try and see how I like them. I'll get back to you.

    One thing I noticed helped as well was to go to the settings menu and switch autoformat off. When it's on, the Philips always tries to find the best fit for the picture on the screen. However, even regular widescreen Sky or BBC images end up being slightly zoomed, which reduces the resolution. By switching that option off, the TV still automatically switches between 4:3 and 16:9 but doesn't spend its time zooming in the picture.

    I'll let you know about your settings. Thanks for the suggestions.

    Wendelius
     

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