Paying tax

You say you are at university, which must mean that you got in before the fee increase.

The actual price of courses vary, but as an example my son is about to start an engineering course and I know that costs £14k per year.

Of that he will pay £9k, but the tax payer will pick up the £5k.

By contrast you are paying something like £3.5k so the tax payer could be contributing £10.5k per annum.

On top of that, because your parents are on income support, you may well be getting a maintenance grant which the tax payer will be paying for.

I suspect that you are taking much much more out of the tax pot then you are putting in.

In fact once you graduated and start work full time, I imagine it will be many years before you have paid in as much as you have taken out.

Cheers,

Nigel
 
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You say you are at university, which must mean that you got in before the fee increase.

Of that he will pay £9k, but the tax payer will pick up the £5k.

Think he's about to start.

Although to come back on the point you make, aren't there also courses which are cheaper to run but still charge the max fees to subsidise the more expensive ones. e.g. someone paying £9K to do History of Art with seven contact hours a week for three years will probably be being overcharged by 100% ish :)
 
also you never answered, what did you mean by change your style?
Not speaking for IMBW, but your OP does come across as somewhat cocky in tone.

For "a naive 18 year old who doesn't fully understand these things", you could have asked the same thing with a tad more tact/humility/modesty :). But I have a feeling you slightly savour the reaction ;). Just don't go Gaz on us.
 
On top of that, because your parents are on income support, you may well be getting a maintenance grant which the tax payer will be paying for.

I think that's a forum myth propagated by someone not reading a post properly earlier and it's now been repeated enough times to become fact. :)

If his parents can afford 8k on car insurance for him I doubt they are on income support :)

Edit: I think he's starting a degree in Electronic Engineering
 
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I think that's a forum myth propagated by someone not reading a post properly earlier and it's now been repeated enough times to become fact.

No the OP states this in post #9.

Cheers,

Nigel
 
No the OP states this in post #9.

Cheers,

Nigel

no, you're miss understanding what I wrote.

"And they are my only income support"

as in instead of claiming income support from the government, they help me out.

its a million miles away from saying they are on income support lol!

I think that's a forum myth propagated by someone not reading a post properly earlier and it's now been repeated enough times to become fact. :)

If his parents can afford 8k on car insurance for him I doubt they are on income support :)

Edit: I think he's starting a degree in Electronic Engineering

Yes yes and yes :)

i am indeed doing electronics


Not speaking for IMBW, but your OP does come across as somewhat cocky in tone.

For "a naive 18 year old who doesn't fully understand these things", you could have asked the same thing with a tad more tact/humility/modesty :). But I have a feeling you slightly savour the reaction ;). Just don't go Gaz on us.

sorry if thats how it comes across, hungover and grumpy, didnt mean to be like that here though :p fine lines and all that :D


:)

we all thought we knew it all when we were 18... i know i did :)

ive learnt so much since then!

OP: out of curiosity have you ever been to poorer countries where you see how well off we are over here? that can be a real eye opener and make you appreciate our little country a lot more!

we were in Kenya a couple of years ago and the guys working 12 hours in the ports loading cargo earn enough in a day to buy a bottle of drinking water!

its not perfect here by any means but we are very lucky to have what we have
The poorest country ive been to is turkey, which is by no stretch of the imagination poor, its not as well off as the uk but still pretty darn good! and no i dont mean to one of those touristy bits. being turkish i have family over there.

also liam yes i am doing electronic engineering as IG correctly stated :)


I mean, opening with a big I-know-best-what-does-this-country-do-for-me rant-o-moan is not a great way to find out all the ways you benefit from being in this great country :)

once again, appologies, hangover, grumpy, ect ect :)
 
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Edit: deleted, it's already been said :)
 
Big interest in university issues as my son starts at Birmingham in just over 2 weeks time.

Also Electronic Engineering as that's what I did at university, many many years ago.

Okay, I'll throw some petrol on your fire by airing one of my pet peeves.

Some of your taxes will be used to provide an additional supplement to Scotland so that they can afford to give their students free university education.

Cheers,

Nigel
 
Big interest in university issues as my son starts at Birmingham in just over 2 weeks time.

Also Electronic Engineering as that's what I did at university, many many years ago.

Okay, I'll throw some petrol on your fire by airing one of my pet peeves.

Some of your taxes will be used to provide an additional supplement to Scotland so that they can afford to give their students free university education.

Cheers,

Nigel

Not sure if you saw my post regarding some courses subsidising others - would be interested to hear your opinion on that - I know you do a lot of research into this sort of thing :)
 
Big interest in university issues as my son starts at Birmingham in just over 2 weeks time.

Also Electronic Engineering as that's what I did at university, many many years ago.

Okay, I'll throw some petrol on your fire by airing one of my pet peeves.

Some of your taxes will be used to provide an additional supplement to Scotland so that they can afford to give their students free university education.

Cheers,

Nigel

what do you do now with said degree?

and yeah dislike it but id rather subsidise their course than pay for mp's to live cushy lives i feel they dont deserve.......



Not sure if you saw my post regarding some courses subsidising others - would be interested to hear your opinion on that - I know you do a lot of research into this sort of thing :)

Was this to me or to Nigel? My opinion is that its not fair tbh. If that was a course I was genuinely passionate about, Id feel hard done by paying the same as everyone else for far less tuition. My personal opinion is that they should set it all up in a way which makes you pay for the activities and for the hours. the way the new loan structure works (effectively a graduate tax which is written off after x years) it doesnt matter all that much to me anyway. far as im concerned if i pay it off great, if not so be it.
 
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Nothing in life is free my friend. Welcome to the real world.
Only two things in life are unavoidable - death and tax...
 
Not sure if you saw my post regarding some courses subsidising others - would be interested to hear your opinion on that - I know you do a lot of research into this sort of thing

Can't really comment because I don't know whether the university charges less than £9k for any course. I can understand how it might happen, I can understand that low contact, low resource courses should charge less but I'm not sure how public accounting would allow them to charge 9k for a course that costs £7k.

But assuming it does happen, is it fair?

Certainly on the face of it, it does seem unfair. But then at least it is free choice - they could do a different degree if they wanted and they wouldn't be charged any more.

Also on the other hand it may be that those on the more expensive courses end up paying more in taxes than those on cheaper courses.

And the way in which the loans are repaid, it is also very possible that those on more expensive courses will also repay a lot more back through loan repayments because of higher salaries and more continuous employment.

Cheers,

Nigel
 
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Can't really comment because I don't know whether the university charges less than £9k for any course. I can understand how it might happen, I can understand that low contact, low resource courses should charge less but I'm not sure how public accounting would allow them to charge less than £9k for that course.

But assuming it does happen, is it fair?

Certainly on the face of it, it does seem unfair. But then at least it is free choice - they could do a different degree if they wanted and they wouldn't be charged any more.

Also on the other hand it may be that those on the more expensive courses end up paying more in taxes than those on cheaper courses.

And the way in which the loans are repaid, it is also very possible that those on more expensive courses will also repay a lot more back through loan repayments because of higher salaries and more continuous employment.

Cheers,

Nigel


lot of food for thought in there. I mean my course is actually £8300 a year instead of the full whack 9k but its not exactly a massive difference, it will amount to a couple of grand total but still a total loan size of 24900 as opposed to 27000
 
I mean my course is actually £8300 a year instead of the full whack 9k

I had to reword, because reading back I saw that I hadn't written exactly what I meant.

I meant to say that I'm not sure that Public Accounting would allow them to charge a student £9k for a course that their internal record shows is £7k.

My guess is that if a university charges £9k then the internal costs of all their courses will be £9k or more. Of course that is not to say that there is not some creative accounting going on behind the scenes.

Sorry for the confusion

Yes I did Electronic Engineering at York University in 1982 - fees were free and I got given a grant.

My son is doing Chemical Engineering at Birmingham in 2012 - fees are £9k and he gets squat.

How times change (unless you live in Scotland of course ;)).

Cheers,

Nigel
 
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I had to reword, because reading back I saw that I hadn't written exactly what I meant.

I meant to say that I'm not sure that Public Accounting would allow them to charge a student £9k for a course that there internal record shows is £7k.

My guess is that if a university charges £9k then the internal costs of all their courses will be £9k or more. Of course that is not to say that there is not some creative accounting going on behind the scenes.

Cheers,

Nigel

I see what you mean.

also i dont know if you saw it or not, what do you currently do with your degree in electronic engineering?
 
"How times change (unless you live in Scotland of course )."

Move to Scotland or stop moaning!
;)

BTW, Chem Eng...good choice, good rates for process engineers in Aberdeen.
 
what do you currently do with your degree in electronic engineering?

I'm not really sure I should say, but you asked so here goes.

I design enterprise architectures for military logistics information systems - software basically.

Even when I graduated in 1985, the traditional electronics industry in the UK was drying up. Big interesting stuff was and still is more or less the restricted to the defence and space industry. The UK only tends to do large scale bespoke electronics for leading edge projects - otherwise so much of it is COTS (Commercial Of The Shelf) integration or done in the far east (Computer and consumer electronics).

Even with the stuff done in the UK, so much of electronics is now about writing software for microcontrollers (PICs, Stamps etc.)


Move to Scotland or stop moaning!

Not that easy. You can't just move there to qualify there is a time that needs to be served. Having said that, read a funny story about Northern Irish students getting Southern Irish passports so that they can study in Scotland free of charge just as any other EU country can do.

Cheers,

Nigel
 
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