Passive subwoofer won't work with new AV receiver

[King Mustard]

I had a Pioneer HTP-072 package, which came with:

• Pioneer VSX-324-K-P AV receiver (released 2013)
• Pioneer S-22W-P passive subwoofer
• The other speakers

The AV receiver died so I bought a Yamaha HTR-2071 AV receiver (released 2017) to replace it.

However, the Pioneer subwoofer no longer works when plugged into the Yamaha AV receiver.

Any ideas?

Pioneer HTP-072: Product page | Operating instructions
Yamaha HTR-2071: Owner's manual | Quick start guide

 

[dobrykamil]

Hook up your subwoofer to Yamaha's front channel just to confirm it's in working condition. Then connect it back to the dedicated speaker terminals and double check your avr's settings.

 

[King Mustard]

Hook up your subwoofer to Yamaha's front channel just to confirm it's in working condition. Then connect it back to the dedicated speaker terminals and double check your avr's settings.

I was actually wrong that the subwoofer was not working. When I feel the soft part (the cone thing), it's actually vibrating but it's very quiet.

This is the Yamaha HTR-2071's Setup (I've extended the relevant options):

• Speaker
  • Configuration
    • Subwoofer (set to Use)
    • Front (set to Small)
    • Center (set to Small)
    • Surround (set to Small)
    • Crossover (set to 160Hz)
    • Subwoofer Phase (set to Normal)
    • Extra Bass
    • Virtual CINEMA FRONT (set to Off)
  • Distance
  • Level
    • Front L (set to 0.0dB)
    • Front R (set to 0.0dB)
    • Center (set to -1.0dB)
    • Surround L (set to -1.0dB)
    • Surround R (set to -1.0dB)
    • Subwoofer
  • Equalizer
  • Test Tone
• HDMI
• Sound
  • DSP Parameter
  • Lipsync
  • Dialogue
  • Volume
    • Scale (set to dB)
    • Dynamic Range (set to Maximum)
    • Max Volume
    • Initial Volume
• ECO
• Function

If I change Extra Bass to On and the subwoofer level to 10dB, I can hear the subwoofer a lot more but it's still quiet compared to what I could get out of the original Pioneer VSX-324-K-P AV receiver.

 

[noiseboy72]

The Yamaha has a sub power output of just 15W, so it's not going to be particularly powerful. That being said, I would expect it to be louder than you are finding and if everything was set up correctly and it was a sub fault, overdriving it would give quite audible distortion.

Possibly a faulty amplifier?

 

[King Mustard]

The Yamaha has a sub power output of just 15W, so it's not going to be particularly powerful. That being said, I would expect it to be louder than you are finding and if everything was set up correctly and it was a sub fault, overdriving it would give quite audible distortion.

Possibly a faulty amplifier?

I've since discovered that the new AV receiver doesn't have a subwoofer amplifier in it. This is the issue I'm having.

So now I have to choose between a new powered subwoofer or an amplifier for the existing subwoofer.

 

[noiseboy72]

The link you gave shows a sub output - although it was pretty low power.

Did you link to the wrong amp?

 

[King Mustard]

The link you gave shows a sub output - although it was pretty low power.

Did you link to the wrong amp?

The link is correct but even with the Subwoofer level set to 10 dB and Extra Bass on, the subwoofer hardly seems on, so something seemed wrong.

At the moment, I'm not using the Pre Out Subwoofer RCA connector as I have nothing to plug into it. The subwoofer only has cables that go into the Subwoofer spring clips.

 

[King Mustard]

Would something like this power the subwoofer?

The Pioneer HTP-072 package was £200 new from Richer Sounds. It was excellent and served me really well. True surround sound, good quality speakers for movies and a decent sub.

I only bought this £130 (new) AV receiver because the Pioneer AV receiver stopped working. I obviously didn't want to have to do that but I needed to or I'd have speakers in my room doing nothing.

I'm not now going to buy an active subwoofer, too, as they cost at least £180 and I don't need any more bass than what the S-22W-P passive subwoofer offered

Just a crappy situation.

I think the way forward for me is to find the cheapest way to power this subwoofer.

 

[Leelo]

The link is correct but even with the Subwoofer level set to 10 dB and Extra Bass on, the subwoofer hardly seems on, so something seemed wrong.

At the moment, I'm not using the Pre Out Subwoofer RCA connector as I have nothing to plug into it. The subwoofer only has cables that go into the Subwoofer spring clips.

That’s because your sub is a passive model designed to be connected to the main speaker terminals on the avr not the rca output which is designed for powered or active subs. If you want to keep it then you need to connect the front left and right speaker output from the avr to the sub and then connect the front left and right speaker to the other speaker terminals on the sub of it has them. Otherwise the front speakers must be still connected to the sockets on the avr alongside the ones going to the sub

 

[dante01]

That’s because your sub is a passive model designed to be connected to the main speaker terminals on the avr not the rca output which is designed for powered or active subs. If you want to keep it then you need to connect the front left and right speaker output from the avr to the sub and then connect the front left and right speaker to the other speaker terminals on the sub of it has them. Otherwise the front speakers must be still connected to the sockets on the avr alongside the ones going to the sub

The Yamaha HTR-2071 has both a subwoofer pre out as well as dedicated subwoofer speaker terminals.

Yamaha - Canada - English | HTR-2071

 

[dante01]

The receiver's onboard amplification for a subwoofer is somewhat lower than the wattage given to powering other speakers. There's only 15 watts with which to power a passive sub with.

Note that I would suggest not using the front left and right terminals to try integrate a passive sub. You'll effectively be limiting the AV receiver's bass management capabilities and the front keft and right speaker will have to be designated LARGE in order to allow the frequencies associaed with the other speakers to be output to the sub. The Sub setting would also need to be set to NONE in order for the frequencies to be redirected to the front speakers. You are more than likely going to get bass boom in associatio with such a setup?

The ultimate solution is to buy an active sub. I'd suggest the following if funds are tight:
Wharfedale Diamond SW-150 Blackwood Subwoofer - Subwoofers - AudioVisual Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists

If you can increase your budget then look towards BK for a good value for money option:
Sub Woofers - Sub Bass - Subwoofer


You could theoretically connect the receiver's sub pre out to an external amp and then use this to power the passive sub with? This is rather cumbersome to accommodate and setup though and may in fact cost you as much if not more than an active sub would cost? An external amp geared towards this is shown here:
Peerless

but this costs £200.

 

[King Mustard]

The receiver's onboard amplification for a subwoofer is somewhat lower than the wattage given to powering other speakers. There's only 15 watts with which to power a passive sub with.

Note that I would suggest not using the front left and right terminals to try integrate a passive sub. You'll effectively be limiting the AV receiver's bass management capabilities and the front keft and right speaker will have to be designated LARGE in order to allow the frequencies associaed with the other speakers to be output to the sub. The Sub setting would also need to be set to NONE in order for the frequencies to be redirected to the front speakers. You are more than likely going to get bass boom in associatio with such a setup?

The ultimate solution is to buy an active sub. I'd suggest the following if funds are tight:
Wharfedale Diamond SW-150 Blackwood Subwoofer - Subwoofers - AudioVisual Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists

If you can increase your budget then look towards BK for a good value for money option:
Sub Woofers - Sub Bass - Subwoofer


You could theoretically connect the receiver's sub pre out to an external amp and then use this to power the passive sub with? This is rather cumbersome to accommodate and setup though and may in fact cost you as much if not more than an active sub would cost? An external amp geared towards this is shown here:
Peerless

but this costs £200.

The Pioneer HTP-072 package was £200 new from Richer Sounds. It was excellent and served me really well. True surround sound, good quality speakers for movies and a decent sub.

I only bought this £130 (new) AV receiver because the Pioneer AV receiver stopped working. I obviously didn't want to have to do that but I needed to or I'd have speakers in my room doing nothing.

I'm not now going to buy an active subwoofer, too, as they cost £150+ and I don't need any more bass than what the S-22W-P passive subwoofer offered

I think the way forward for me is to find the cheapest way to power this subwoofer.

Would any of the below work?

www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B073PR5YGD (£11)
www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01LNB4SES (£12)
www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B075R3D9VH (£24)
www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B074PNJDSC (£29)

 

[dante01]

AV receivers don't really now include any provision for passive subwoofers. You can connect it to your front speaker terminals along with your front left and right speakers as suggested earlier in the thread, but this means you are unable to level the sub independantly of the front speakers or set a different distance setting for it. You'd also not be able to effectively use crossovers in association with the front speakers.

The amps you link to are probably no more powerful than the receiver's integral 15 watt subwoofer amp? The most expensive one only gives you 41 watts when only dealing with a constant 1kHz. Real world wattage is going to be less than this.

 

[kenm]

I got one of these a year or so back, after my more expensive REL gave up on me. For 150 quid it is pretty good and will fix your issue for a modest amount of money. I'll get the REL fixed eventually but the Wharfedale is a fine, cheap replacement in the meantime. Even though both subs offer passive options, I've only used them as active.

 

[King Mustard]

I've just been offered a used Yamaha YST-SW105 (owner's manual) (released in 2001, from what I can gather) for £50.

Any thoughts on it?

Will it work with my Yamaha HTR-2071 AV receiver?

 

[dante01]

It would work and can be used with your receiver. I'd not rate it very highly though based upon its rated abilities. It is rather restricted as to the lowest frquency it can portray (30Hz) and wouldn't be as good as the Wharfdale sub or one of BK's subs.

I guess that it is what it is and you get what you pay for.

 

[King Mustard]

It would work and can be used with your receiver. I'd not rate it very highly though based upon its rated abilities. It is rather restricted as to the lowest frquency it can portray (30Hz) and wouldn't be as good as the Wharfdale sub or one of BK's subs.

I guess that it is what it is and you get what you pay for.

Would I get a dual RCA-to-single RCA cable and run the dual end from the subwoofer to the single-end Pre Out port on the AV receiver?

 

[dante01]

Would I get a dual RCA-to-single RCA cable and run the dual end from the subwoofer to the single-end Pre Out port on the AV receiver?

No, just run a single RCA terminated cable from the receiver's sub pre out to the LEFT MONO RCA input on the subwoofer. Do not connect your left and right speakers to the subwoofer's speaker terminals and leave them connected to the AV receiver's left and right speaker terminals.

 

[King Mustard]

No, just run a single RCA terminated cable from the receiver's sub pre out to the LEFT MONO RCA input on the subwoofer. Do not connect your left and right speakers to the subwoofer's speaker terminals and leave them connected to the AV receiver's left and right speaker terminals.

I'm a little bit confused.

As far as I'm aware, I'd keep all the standard speakers (five channels) connected directly to the AV receiver and have a single cable going from the subwoofer to the Pre Out jack on the AV receiver. Is that correct?

 

[dante01]

I'm a little bit confused.

As far as I'm aware, I'd keep all the standard speakers (five channels) connected directly to the AV receiver and have a single cable going from the subwoofer to the Pre Out jack on the AV receiver. Is that correct?

Correct.

You'd then configure the settings on the sub as follows:

Set the frequency (HIGH CUT) to 150Hxz (as high as it goes)
Set the volume to no higher than mid way and more likely to about the 3 setting
Set the BASS option to MOVIE
Leave the AUTO STANDBY option set to off.


You'd now be ready to calibrate the setup by setting distances, levels and bass management. . Set all the speakers as being SMALL and assign them crossover points that correspond with their frequency handling abilities.

 

[King Mustard]

Correct.

You'd then configure the settings on the sub as follows:

Set the frequency (HIGH CUT) to 150Hxz (as high as it goes)
Set the volume to no higher than mid way and more likely to about the 3 setting
Set the BASS option to MOVIE
Leave the AUTO STANDBY option set to off.


You'd now be ready to calibrate the setup by setting distances, levels and bass management. . Set all the speakers as being SMALL and assign them crossover points that correspond with their frequency handling abilities.

You had me until crossover points

 

[dante01]

You had me until crossover points

The receiver has inbuilt bass management. This allows you to set the point at which frequencies are redirected away from speakers designated SMALL and output to the external active subwoofer via the sub pre out. This would be in addition to frequencies associated with the LFE channel that you commonly get with multichannel surround soundtracks which would be also sent to the sub.

You may find this article on bass management informative:
AV Receiver Bass Management Basics – Settings Made Simple

 

[kenm]

A brand new decent sub for 150 quid, or a twenty year old one of dubious quality for a 50 quid? I have a lot of time for Yamaha's electronics and musical instruments but not for their budget subs from 20 years ago.

Bear in mind these things also contain amplifiers, which may have been unused a lot of the time, or left on all the time for all of its life. Amplifier components fail over time so even one working now may have a limited life. Also, 50 quid seems expensive for that particular item.

 

[King Mustard]

A brand new decent sub for 150 quid, or a twenty year old one of dubious quality for a 50 quid? I have a lot of time for Yamaha's electronics and musical instruments but not for their budget subs from 20 years ago.

Bear in mind these things also contain amplifiers, which may have been unused a lot of the time, or left on all the time for all of its life. Amplifier components fail over time so even one working now may have a limited life. Also, 50 quid seems expensive for that particular item.

It'll cost him roughly £6 in fuel, I estimate, and I don't seem to have any other options

Keep in mind I was happy with my original subwoofer until the AV receiver popped so I definitely don't want to spend any more than £50 on a replacement subwoofer, considering I've already spent £130 on an AV receiver that's basically the same as the one that broke

 

[ChuckMountain]

As per Kenm advice, whilst I appreciate you don't want to spend more than £50 that Yamaha sub is not worth that's. There weren't that much more new and is very old. I world personally have a quick check on the forums/ebay to see what you can get for that money.

A fixed kef psw2010 would far better and you might get one for and that money these days