Passive 3D 1080P Projector setup

UltiResis

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Hi all, Looking to get some info regarding passive 3D projector setups as I will be moving house within a few months or so and want to plan ahead and get the cash together. I have not finalised a budget.

Originally I had planned to go for the new LG 55" LW980T passive TV (and may still do so) but the more I have read the worse it is sounding, with all sorts of reported faults and the local dimming zones not being what they were supposed to etc. For £2799 I expect a lot better of LG or any company. This has been pretty much the same story with every TV for the last 2 years, just fault after fault and having to return them. So I have almost given up for the moment on flat panels.

I am aware of the LG passive PJ but for the price I don't think it's worth the money as the reviews have not been great considering it is £7000+.

From what I can gather the only option right now would be to go the route of having 2 projectors in a vertical stack mount with polarising filters, 2 optoma 3DXL boxes and a silver screen. Does this still give frame sequential 1080P 3D though, or does it only convert to 720P Side By Side? Is there another option than having the 3DXLs such as a left eye/right eye HDMI splitter of sorts?

Another question I have is regarding 2D from a 3D twin stack like this. Would 2D still work without having to keep moving or adjusting the PJs every time I switch from 3D to 2D and back again and would it be sensible to alternately use the Pjs for 2D to keep the lamp usage about the same in each PJ? I realise of course that for 2D and 3D I would have to have 2 screens, a normal screen and a silver screen.

Tried doing some research but cannot find anyone that supplies passive setups and offers install and calibration. Does Ricky J from Kalibrate or say Roy Jowett or anywhere similar offer passive supply/setup. I did read about other people trying to DIY but it seems that DIY results in lots of difficulties with alignment etc and I don't want to go down that road. The only other option I have seen is a USA company that want $16,000+ for a setup.

Active 3D unfortunately is not an option really as my Wife cannot tolerate it at all, the glasses completely wreck her eyes.

I would expect I could have a pretty large screen as the new house has a fairly big living room with a ceiling height of I think 2.45m, width of 4m+ and length of about 7metres. These figures are just rough from what I have seen in visiting the place twice now. The only possible issue may be the beamed ceiling, which has a main central beam running across the width of the room and it hangs considerably lower than the rest so it may get in the way but I don't know.

Can anyone answer any of my questions or give any advice on where to buy or get advice or are there other single unit passive projectors due onto the market which I am not aware of?

If Ricky J or Roy Jowett happen to read this then can you guys offer any assistance?

Thanks in advance to everyone for any help you can offer it will be much appreciated! Apologies for writing such an essay too.

Cheers,
Mick.
 
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Hi mate just a quick question, why do you want to limit yourself to passive only? When I was initially looking at 3D over a year ago the passive system seemed the way to go as the glasses would be so much cheaper and sky is sent in passive. But obviously if it only shows passive there would have to be some kind of conversion to show other forms of 3D. Whereas the current stock of 3D PJ's already show all forms of 3D. As you say the price is so restrictive that the extra amount for the glasses on the current systems would be offset.
 
Initially to clear up some confusion. Passive and active are different display mechanisms of the same information, sky sends their data in side-by-side format which does not equate passive. The method of encoding 3d data and the way it is displayed is not linked in any way.

As to setting up a passive display 2x 1080p projector each with a 3dxl and a couple of polarised filters, a screen that is capable of maintaining the polarisation of the light all combined will achieve your desired result for much less than an all in one set up. Since the projectors point at the same point 2d will appear in the same location, the main issue will be uneven bulb use so you would have to manage which projector outputs 2d to keep the bulbs at a similar level. The 3dxl will pick apart frame stacked content so you can watch 3d blurays and play 3d games.

Alignment shouldn't be too bad as long as you use 2 of the same projector, choose a simple image to send through both and line them up that way, there are quite a few examples of this on the net, when I've got a decent connection I'll post a few links.

This is what I'd do if I had issues with active but my eyes have got used to active now so seems the more convenient optio. :)
 
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Thanks Witchdrash, I was as you could probably tell from my post already clued in on the Passive/Active stuff above but good that you helped Steve to understand!

"will achieve your desired result for much less than an all in one set up" I was pretty sure that this would be the case.

"The 3dxl will pick apart frame stacked content so you can watch 3d blurays and play 3d games." - I assume you mean by this that it will convert to SBS? Or am I misunderstanding? Will the 3DXL still display 1080P passive or reduce it to 720P. How do I get from 1 HDMI out on say a BD Player or PS3 to having 2 HDMI to plug into the two 3DXL boxes, do I link the boxes together or something?

I would have to alternate usage of the projectors for 2D to maintain even lamp usage but this should not be too difficult as I could keep a watchful eye on the usage timers. Most projectors have timers nowadays I assume?

In terms of an alignment image would a simple cross be adequate with a central vertical line and central horizontal to align each axis or would I require something a little more detailed than this? I will use 2 of the same projector.

The big question is what projectors (LCD, Lcos, SXRD, Dila etc?), filters and silver screen to go for and where to buy them? As this would be my first projector(s) it is all new to me and I would have a steep curve to climb in learning what brightness I need, throw distance, calibration and the like. I have lots of knowledge on flat panel TVs so I don't think I would have any problems getting to grips with it all. Just decideing what is required and right for me really but I only want to buy from reputable dealers that have good customer service if anything goes bad on me.

I was hoping to have an electric ceiling mount screen maybe with tab tensioning but it all comes down to cost and what I can afford I guess but from what I can gather the Harkness spectral 240 is the better silver material at reasonable pricing or Stewart if I can supply an endless amount of cash. I was also thinking that having a twin electric screen would be much neater and all self contained. The only issue is that it seems that harkness only sell the material and do not supply electric screens, rollers etc. So do I have to go to a company like Beamax for example to have the Harkness material made into an electric screen?

Can't really make final decisions until I move house and get exact measurements of the lounge and get the layout right but I figure planning and arming myself with knowledge in advance will make things easier and faster when the time comes.

The only other thing would be to take into consideration the cost of replacement lamps for 2 Pj's every time and from what I have read the PTAE5000 lamps for example are £700 each. Is this right?

Sorry for so many questions!
 
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That £700 was being put about initially but in reality I think they will be no more than £350 according to the latest estimate.
 
Ahh OK thanks Kbfern, still £700 for a bulb change every 3000 or maybe 4000 hours is a chunk of cash. No doubt prices will come down rapidly by the time they would be needed. Do lamp prices drop quite quickly or do they tend to hold for a few years?
 
Generally whatever price they are available at initially is around the price they stay at for 1-2 yrs at least.Non OEM bulbs usually can be found at 30% less after a few months but these can be risky as they may not last as long.
 
That's something I need to consider then as a 3000 hour lamp won't last long when watching usually 3 movies a week or more and lots of gaming both in 2D and 3D. I would probably get just over a year out of the lamps if I'm lucky? £700 a year on lamps sounds crazy, £300 or so I could probably justify but I'll have to look at the consumables cost when deciding what projectors to buy.
 
But there is not that much 3D content out there? And if you are sharing the PJ's for 2D content!!! I use my PJ for special movie nights only and maybe occassionally some gaming so different use and in 3 years I have used around 700 hours.
 
Some weeks I spend upwards of 25 hours gaming and watch 5 x 2 hour 2D movies and then 3D on top of that will be probably at least one a week or more so say about 40 hours a week total usage. That is being fairly conservative and could be quite a lot more in reality but nevertheless works out to 2080 hours a year. Taking into account that a lamp may not last as long as the manufacturers claimed life then I would say my estimate was not that far out really. I am a pretty heavy user I think.

It is not that critical in the overall scheme of things I suppose as lamp prices will fall over the time I own the PJs and if I don't happen to use it quite so much as I think then again this will reduce the expected consumable costs. If I got 1.5 - 2 years out of a lamp for £350 per lamp then I would be happy with that I guess.
 
25 hours wow, are you retired:D. And don't forget you will be sharing it between 2 PJ's so that is 31/2 to 4 years and by that time you will be thinking about an upgrade :laugh:.
 
You're probably right about the upgrade, whether my Mrs agrees will be another issue entirely :rolleyes: :laugh:

Retired, yes RAF veteran. Old, no only 33.

25 hours is not that much really I know guys who do 6-10 hours gaming a night and they work full time pretty much their entire spare time is spent gaming LOL!! I do normally about 4 hours a day from maybe 9-10PM until about 2AM. Some days more some days less, other times I will play during the day. Really depends what else I have on the to do list and how I am feeling.

I won't be using the PJs for TV viewing unless on occasion there is a great documentary on like David Attenborough or something really worthy of the big screen. If I get as long as 3.5 to 4 years out of them then I would be well happy.
 
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@UltiResis no the 3dxl will send one frame to the left projector and one to the right, you should get 1080p passive
 
A quick point about active glasses , most people that have had a quick look at the active 3d on my projector and tv they all say it hurts there eyes and head but after 15 mins it's gone and they say it's fine and the next time they watch it's also fine , I think the first time you watch 3d your brain is saying something's not quite right but it soon relaxes and sorts it's self out so it might be worth seeing
If you can watch some 3d for a bit longer then a 5 min blast in a tv shop and see if your wife is ok with it as it might save you a lot of time and money

And when watching 3d you can't just relax and watch the whole screen at once as its like real life you focus at The opject you are looking at on the screen as there are many layers :smashin:
 
my advice is to not take a 5 minute blast in a tv shop to see whether or not your wife can tolerate it or not.

my experience is the tv shops show the worst scenario when it comes to 3d viewing.

go to a dedicated cinema room enthusiast who is willing to let you see a full film if necessary on a big projected screen, this is what you will want to have at home I suspect so thats what you should be going to see.

Also different glasses imho make quite a difference to the viewer, poor glasses will ultimately spoil the pleasure of 3d viewing for some, whereas a change of glasses could make it for them.

Allan @ Ideal AV
 
I'd thought about doing this too (2 projectors with different polarisation), but I read that at least LCD projectors already partially polarise their output. DLP might be ok though? Not sure about SXRD / LCOS.

But getting something to split the 3d into the L and R streams might be the bigger problem.
 
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my advice is to not take a 5 minute blast in a tv shop to see whether or not your wife can tolerate it or not.

my experience is the tv shops show the worst scenario when it comes to 3d viewing.

go to a dedicated cinema room enthusiast who is willing to let you see a full film if necessary on a big projected screen, this is what you will want to have at home I suspect so thats what you should be going to see.

Also different glasses imho make quite a difference to the viewer, poor glasses will ultimately spoil the pleasure of 3d viewing for some, whereas a change of glasses could make it for them.


Allan @ Ideal AV

Please read the post !!!!

I said for a bit longer then a 5 min blast in a tv shop

As my post said first time you watch 3d it does hurt some people's eyes but after around 15 mins you get used to it
 
Please read the post !!!!

I said for a bit longer then a 5 min blast in a tv shop

As my post said first time you watch 3d it does hurt some people's eyes but after around 15 mins you get used to it

i`m sorry, it was the "then a 5min blast in a tv shop" that through me
 
Guys, I have owned 4 different active 3D sets. 2 Samsung (one from 2010 C680 Plasma and one 2011 D8000 LCD), 1 Sony (2011) and 1 from panasonic (VT30 2011) and watched several full length movies on them all in my home on 50 inch and 55 inch screens. Active is not for my Wife and there is no 'getting used to it' going to happen. All the TVs have gone back for refunds but they did have other faults/issues as well as the 3D not being acceptable. I am now back to using my Samsung 40" CCFL LE40A686M1FXXU.
 
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ok thats fair enouth , it was just a what if as i have had friends say the same to me before but they havent really tryed it but you have so its all good :D
 
So I take it from the lack of response that there are no dealers/calibrators out there offering passive setups such as this?
 
Thanks guys I appreciate your suggestions.

I did find the polarotator when searching the web for info. The polarotator sounds like a great idea when you first read about it but it is a pretty cumbersome piece of kit to set up and adjust as well as taking up quite a lot of real estate and costing £850. The results seem to be OK but not fantastic, to be honest the idea of converting from active to passive just doesn't sound like a good solution to me and I would rather go the twin PJ route with polarising filters etc to get the best quality I can.

Unfortunately RealD (as far as I'm aware) do not actually supply any setups or anything to the public they mainly license technology to the cinemas and other manufacturers and now to TV manufacturers such as Samsung and LG in the upcoming RZD active/passive combi tech sets. With the RZD TVs effectively they are taking the shuttering effect and the alternating polarisation and putting it in the TV instead of in the glasses so that the TV does all the work but then using passive glasses to view, it is not known what the results will be at this stage but Samsung and RealD as well as James Cameron are claiming it looks amazing (don't they always). This will give full 1080P to each eye as oposed to the current LG passive (FPR) TVs which give 540P to each eye. These sets are due to be released by Samsung in monitors early 2012 and then in TVs later in the year.

Looks as if I am going to have to go down the DIY route and try to contact various manufacturers and dealers along the way to obtain what I need or have things custom made which is going to be costly but I'll have to see what the prices come out like and consider my options. Either that or hope that PJ makers decide to release some affordable and good quality passive PJs withn the next 6 months or so.

I really cannot understand why manufacturers haven't already cottoned on to passive PJs other than maybe the costs of implementing it into devices at reasonable costs. It seems it may be something people are interested in as this thread has had over 700 views already and it hasn't been here very long.
 
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