Part timer working in a pub - what rights?

lostinspace

Well-known Member
My nephew has been working in a busy town centre pub for just over a year, and the managers are really trying it on in my opinion. Here's why:
1. They knew he was a student when they took him on and the hours he could work would have to fit in with course work. Now they insist he must work at the pub even if he is at college, and last week he worked 50 hours on top of college work.
2. He has to pay back money if the tills are short, even though there has never been any evidence that he is the one making errors. Up to 6 people use the same till, and they all have to pay the money back- this week from one shift he's been told he must pay £30 which means the till must have been £180 short! Strange that the tills are checked only by the manager, and in the year my nephew has been there, no till has ever been over!?!
3. Once a month he has to go in on a sunday morning for training. He gets paid for one hour, but training has been known to last three hours.
4. He recently put a fresh optic on a bottle of spirits which wasn't cleaned properly. The spirits became cloudy, and he has now been told he must pay for the spirits-at the shot rate ie about £100. Cleaning the optics is another person's job.
5. He has regularly tried to book holiday days, but is told they are too busy, so he can't have them. But if his holidays aren't taken by 31 st December, he will lose them with no option to carry them over, or to be paid for them.
6. He still does not have a copy of his contract so he can't check anything out.

How much does anyone think he should have to put up with, and does anyone know what his rights are? He would quit but is trying to save up for university next year and needs the job.
Please help if you can by clarifying his legal rights.
 

Praxidike

Banned
Well if he doesn't have a copy of the contract, he can just say no to all of that silly stuff he has to do until he sees it written in his contract that this is the rules.

The flip side of that though from the employers is.... no contract, no work, so if anyone becomes a pain, there's the door.

Maybe citizen's advice or somewhere would be worth looking at? They should know what action can be done.
 

lostinspace

Well-known Member
I suggested CAB, but at 19 he's not as confident as someone of my age.
I don't suppose it's a coincidence that they only employ youngsters who they can bully.
Personally I'd get Health and Safety in there, because if optics are not sterilised after each bottle is empty, there could be cross contamination as in this case.
I also forgot to mention that someone there ended up at casualty because of a cut hand, and they don't even have an accident book!
 

dUnKle

Member
I would quit

There is no need for anyone to be trated like that and they sound the sort or people who would just make things harder if he tried to fight

Quit and find another job - even if its filling shelves in Tesco or working in another (better) pub
 

Steve.J.Davies

Novice Member
he is being ripped off - he should get out and leave the clowns to it. Plenty of bar work he can pick up surely ? Find another job first then walk - just before their busiest shift...
 

u8myufo

Active Member
well if he is having to fork out that kinda dosh just to work there then I would tell em to go screw the job. Not only would he be better off, but it would free up 50hrs of his time to get something else.
 

unique

Moderator
working 50 hours a week isn't my idea of part time work, but regardless of that, everyone is entitled to the same terms and conditions whether they are full time or part time. the working time regulations don't allow someone to work over 48 hours a week without the person signing a disclaimer, and i think the law recently changed so they can't do that anymore (but existing disclaimers were fine).

he really needs to see what his contract states, and if his contract mentions these deductions. any deductions shouldn't be more than 10% of pay

training should be paid also for the time he is at work/training

it sounds like they are taking him for a ride. he should get in touch with acas and explain the situation and ask them to help him out. personally i would leave and get a job elsewhere and ask acas to try and recover payments deducted. if he can resign and leave before 31st december then they would need to pay him for untaken holidays, whether or not he gives and works notice. i would imagine/hope his notice is 1 week, so he can give notice so his last working day is 29th/30th december so he isn't roped into working new years eve. his holiday pay should be based on his average earnings over the last 13 weeks, and he should be entitled to at least 4 weeks holiday per year pro rata, so if he hasn't taken holidays he should be entitled to be paid for almost 4 full weeks (times 50 hours if he has been doing that the past 13 weeks) if he hasn't taken any paid leave in the year. payment for these 4 weeks might help tide him over until he gets a new job

if he is working as hard as you say, i don't think he will find it hard to get another job. if he asks a few bars at this busy time of year he may end up with a new job and can jack in the old one straight away. try asking some of the bigger chain bars, who will treat staff and pay them properly, they will be glad for extra staff right now, and if he does well they may keep him on
 

davisneil

Novice Member
im sure head office would be interested to hear of these things going on....

no accident book? doesnt that contravene the RIDDOR regulations?
 

Pat_C

Novice Member
the working time regulations don't allow someone to work over 48 hours a week without the person signing a disclaimer
But isn't that figure an average over 12 or 16 weeks or something?
 

Matt_C

Distinguished Member
My nephew has been working in a busy town centre pub for just over a year, and the managers are really trying it on in my opinion. Here's why:
1. They knew he was a student when they took him on and the hours he could work would have to fit in with course work. Now they insist he must work at the pub even if he is at college, and last week he worked 50 hours on top of college work.
2. He has to pay back money if the tills are short, even though there has never been any evidence that he is the one making errors. Up to 6 people use the same till, and they all have to pay the money back- this week from one shift he's been told he must pay £30 which means the till must have been £180 short! Strange that the tills are checked only by the manager, and in the year my nephew has been there, no till has ever been over!?!
3. Once a month he has to go in on a sunday morning for training. He gets paid for one hour, but training has been known to last three hours.
4. He recently put a fresh optic on a bottle of spirits which wasn't cleaned properly. The spirits became cloudy, and he has now been told he must pay for the spirits-at the shot rate ie about £100. Cleaning the optics is another person's job.
5. He has regularly tried to book holiday days, but is told they are too busy, so he can't have them. But if his holidays aren't taken by 31 st December, he will lose them with no option to carry them over, or to be paid for them.
6. He still does not have a copy of his contract so he can't check anything out.

How much does anyone think he should have to put up with, and does anyone know what his rights are? He would quit but is trying to save up for university next year and needs the job.
Please help if you can by clarifying his legal rights.


simple question is not "what are his rights" but more : why is he still working there? I would have quit soooooo long ago!!!!!! Manager(s) there sound like complete tools, and the very first time anyone asked/told me I had to put in to make the tills right I would have been out the door!

Unless he lives in a pissant town in the middle of nowhere, I bet there are hundreds of pubs he can work in where he doesn't have to be treated like that...
 

Knyght_byte

Novice Member
My nephew has been working in a busy town centre pub for just over a year, and the managers are really trying it on in my opinion. Here's why:
1. They knew he was a student when they took him on and the hours he could work would have to fit in with course work. Now they insist he must work at the pub even if he is at college, and last week he worked 50 hours on top of college work.
He isnt a part time if he is doing that many hours, i could be wrong but pretty sure part time is considered up to either 25 or 30 hours. certainly if doing a full 38 or more is full time.

2. He has to pay back money if the tills are short, even though there has never been any evidence that he is the one making errors. Up to 6 people use the same till, and they all have to pay the money back- this week from one shift he's been told he must pay £30 which means the till must have been £180 short! Strange that the tills are checked only by the manager, and in the year my nephew has been there, no till has ever been over!?!
It's been a few years since i last worked in a pub, but last i remember a pub has no legal right to make staff pay back for a short till, they can sack you if they can prove it, thats the only thing they can do. Unless this has changed. I last worked in a pub a good 7 years ago tho. I'd say the manager is the one pinching in this case.

3. Once a month he has to go in on a sunday morning for training. He gets paid for one hour, but training has been known to last three hours.
They have to pay him for every hour as he is on a hourly pay rate, if he was paid as a salary (set wage every month) then they might (depending on contract) be able to force him to hang around longer than they have suggested the training might take.

4. He recently put a fresh optic on a bottle of spirits which wasn't cleaned properly. The spirits became cloudy, and he has now been told he must pay for the spirits-at the shot rate ie about £100. Cleaning the optics is another person's job.
He put a fresh optic on a bottle of spirits? Unusual, normally dont do it that way around. Fresh optic and fresh bottle yes, fresh bottle on optic yes. Granted he should have checked to see if the optic was clean though before connecting it, even if the cleaning of them is not his job, in an industry involving drink and food you must check everything yourself before you apply it. However he should not be charged for the customer price, he should only be paying the replacement wholesale price. Again i think your nephews manager is on the take here (unusual, usually its the barstaff on the take...lol)

5. He has regularly tried to book holiday days, but is told they are too busy, so he can't have them. But if his holidays aren't taken by 31 st December, he will lose them with no option to carry them over, or to be paid for them.
He can always book holidays, prettys ure if he is on a weekly schedule then he can give two weeks notice providing other staff have not already booked up those dates. As for the losing holidays, most companies follow that procedure, what you dont use you lose. Some are nicer and let you carry over a few days, but not many.

6. He still does not have a copy of his contract so he can't check anything out.
He must get a copy of his contract. If the pub is run by a brewers or multi-business company then he can contact head office for it. If the pub is a one off business owned by someone other than the manager, then he should contact the owner. If the owner is also the manager then he should contact a solicitor and get the solicitor to request the contract. Sadly that last will cost, but if the boss refuses to hand over a contract then he is breaking the law unless it is casual work with a no contract agreement, in which case your nephew can do whatever he likes, but this also means he can be made redundant without notice as well. This was how it worked when i worked in some sports bars on a casual basis for a while anyhow, but like i say this was a while ago, employment law might have changed since


How much does anyone think he should have to put up with, and does anyone know what his rights are? He would quit but is trying to save up for university next year and needs the job.
Please help if you can by clarifying his legal rights.

Personally i'd tell him to get out of that job, but to make sure he gives the boss a reason that wont upset the boss, this is so he can get a written reference from the boss. He needs to get this when he leaves, so best he gives notice of a couple weeks and reminds the boss about the reference. Then get a job in another pub.

Certainly worth checking with CAB etc on current rights and laws though. As i say, i might be using outdated knowledge now so what i say could be incorrect currently.
 

Silver Arrow

Active Member
I can be quite confident in saying that part / full time staff MUST be issued with a contract of employment after 8 weeks of employment. If not the employer will almost certainly lose any tribunal.

Contact CAB or an eployment lawyer, there will be some claim against an unlawful employer.

Andy
 

lynx

Well-known Member
I can be quite confident in saying that part / full time staff MUST be issued with a contract of employment


A written statement (not necessarily a contract) should be provided,however it will only detail certain basic aspects of the contract....hrs worked,holiday entitlement,rate of pay and interval it's paid,job title,details of collective agreements etc..

For the op...
"A qualifying employee who is dissatisfied because he or she has received no written statement of employment particulars, or no notification of a change in those particulars, may refer the matter to an employment tribunal.

If a written statement, or notification of a change, has been received by the employee but a question arises as to the accuracy or sufficiency of the particulars contained in it (or in another document to which it refers, in the limited circumstances where such reference is permitted), then either the employee or the employer may refer the matter to an employment tribunal.

In either case, the tribunal will determine what particulars the employee should have been given. The particulars decided on by the tribunal will have effect as if they had been included in a written statement, or notification of a change, issued by the employer.

From 1 October 2004 the employment tribunals will have additional powers in relation to written statements. If an employee is successful in a complaint to a tribunal about a variety of matters (excluding references under the written statement requirements themselves), the tribunal will also consider whether he received a written statement or a statement of change. If he was entitled to receive such a statement but did not, or his statement is inaccurate or incomplete, the tribunal will award him compensation, unless there are exceptional circumstances which would make this unjust or inequitable. It will do this either by adding to any award it is making for the matter about which the employee has complained, or, if financial compensation is not the remedy provided by the law for that complaint (or not the one which the tribunal has chosen), by making an award. In either case - adding to an award or making one - the amount of compensation will be two or four weeks' pay (at the tribunal's discretion). A week's pay for this purpose is subject to a statutory limit"


Also have a read at the part time workers (prevention of less favourable treatment)regs...http://www.dti.gov.uk/employment/employment-legislation/fixed-term-employees/page26335.html
 

unique

Moderator
from what i recall, i might be wrong, but pretty sure, if you don't receive your contract within 28 days of starting, and you want a copy, or even if you just want another copy if you lost it, if you put your request in writing, your employer has 21 days to supply you with a written copy of the terms and conditions of your employment aka a contract

as to holidays, you don't have to be given holidays if you give two weeks notice, as there can be good reasons whey your employer can't grant you that wish, such as if everyone asked for the same time off and gave the same notice. good practice is to give twice the length of notice than the period you want off, so 2 days if you want a day off, or 2 weeks if you want a week off, 4 weeks if you want 2 weeks off etc. unless your contract states otherwise, your employer can also give you fair notice for you to take your holidays, using the same "twice the length" example, so your employer can tell you when you have to take your holidays if the follow good practice. this is what retail or bar managers may use to ensure only 1 or 2 people are off at the same time and to ensure staff use up holidays over the holiday year (which doesn't have to run jan-dec, but would usually be accepted as that if nothing else was specified)

the classification of part time work depends on employer, it can be less than 16 hours a week, the typical full time job is 35-40 hours a week, so he is clearly working more than that

to make deductions from pay, it needs to be set out clearly in the contract, and you can't deduct more than 10% of pay

the issue with the dirty optic and spoilage, unless specified in contract shouldn't be deducted from pay, but be a disciplinary issue perhaps. if someone breaks something at work normally they wouldn't have deductions from pay, and certainly not at retail prices

if you get in touch with acas, rather than cab, the OPs nephew may be able to claim against his employer, at no cost to the OPs nepher

the working time regs do use an average, and you can work over the hours one week if you work less the following week, but you must have breaks between shifts of a certain period, and the rules were mainly put in place so van drivers weren't working crazy hours, which is why you can work more hours one week, so you can drive back home, as long as you make up the time off the following week. they weren't set like that so you can work longer in pubs
 

Londondecca

Active Member
The working time reference period is up to 17 weeks but can be altered by consent. I did one a few years ago when we introduced annualised hours.

There are a number of things where the employer is apparently at fault and each one could be examined and potential claims made but unless there is a will to stand up and fight for the principals, I would resign and find a decent employer but take the basic information about contracts etc and dont let another employer get away with it in the future
 

lostinspace

Well-known Member
Thanks to you all for the replies. I've passed them on to him, and now the ball's in his court.
The pub he works at is one of the cheapest in Doncaster- but no wonder when they treat staff like this.
 

The latest video from AVForums

Podcast: Q Acoustics Q3030i, Humax Aura, Roku Streambar & WandaVision Reviews and more...
Top Bottom