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Parents, the internet and prison

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Ethics Gradient, Jun 21, 2005.

  1. Ethics Gradient

    Ethics Gradient
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    " Mum faces jail over 14-year-old daughter's downloading "

    ...was the headline I read on the Inquirer site this morning.

    The story here paints the picture of a poor internet illiterate mother with no money faceing jail after her daughter unknowingly broke the law by file shareing music. She faces a £4,000 bill and can't pay so may end up in jail.

    When I followed the link to the full article from the local press, I couldn't help notice a few 'errors' is this woman and her childs defence.

    local press article

    "Mrs Price's daughter Emily, 14, has been breaking the law for two years."

    *****"Emily says she didn't know that the file-sharing program she used was wrong."

    "I saw a TV programme about downloading music the other week."

    *****"I asked Emily if she was doing it and she said she wasn't."


    HELLO!!!! - when you ask someone if they are doing something and they deny it ...... the KNOW they are doing wrong.


    ---------

    "downloaded the songs in her bedroom without her mum knowing."

    "I don't even know how to use a computer."

    "I've never even switched one on. I just pay the bills"

    says it all really - stupid mother lets her child have access to the net without any checks and balances.

    Its not like there haven't been numerous TV programes and News articles about potential dangers, fraud , missuse of computers and the internet.
    If you donlt know anything about computers, you should NEVER let a child onto one - simply as that.

    The media are trying to play this as a sob story - I say tough, accept some responsabilty.
    The child KNEW she was doing wrong - she was shareing files for 2 years, denied doing it, then got caught.
    Mother let a child access the internet in her bedroom with NO idea what she was up to - the internet has EVERYTHING available on it somewhere in terms of information - from the most extreme sexual depravities to brain washing propaganda from extremist groups.
    What on earth are parents thinking .... ( or not in these cases ) leting kids have have access to the net.
    The woman deserves being sent to prison / fined and held up to an example to others.

    Kids don't NEED access to the internet - in fact I would go so far as saying its bad for them in more ways than simply the obvious.
    Why bother thinking properly about your homework when you can cut/paste/print material straight of the net. I didn't have the internet helping me with my school work and I doubt the majority of this sites users did either.

    My parents wouldn't have allowed me to go to the pictures to see a certificate 18 when I was 10 .... but on the internet you can browse and pull up REAL autopsy photos of desmembered corpses, a damn site more disturbing than a holywood film...... and there will be very few internet filters if any that would stop a child seeing that sort of material.

    Parents should start accepting responsabilty - start getting the kids off the internet and out into the park where they can get fit and socialise properly - and away from an uncensored, uncheckable and essentially dangerous for the inept internet.

    Might free up alot of bandwidth and take out alot of zombie computers being used to DoS attack internet servers in the process.
     
  2. Xstyle

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    I can think of quite a few people getting jailed then!!
    or is Kazaa legal?
     
  3. Ethics Gradient

    Ethics Gradient
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    kazaa = legal

    downloading copyright material using it = illegal
     
  4. Nobber22

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    Agree with you Ethics. Lock up stupid parents! :smashin:
     
  5. pjclark1

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    My 3 year old has his own PC in his bedroom with wireless broadband
    and loves using it, is that bad then?

    PS. This is another "bogus fine" story
    "Mum, Sylvia Price, was a little startled to find a solicitors letter on her doormat when she came home from work one day."
    First time I have seen solicitors able to hand out fines!
    It would take years to go to court & even the parents in the "Bulger case" didn't get a fine or prison for their childrens actions. It's time people started saying, "put me in jail then and while I'm there you get to pay to foster the kids and don't forget to pay my legal aid, and then social security cos I won't be able to work again"
     
  6. Ethics Gradient

    Ethics Gradient
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    if he can turn it on and access the internet without permanent parentla supervision - yes

    .... or do you leave him infront of hard core porn on your video downstairs while you go out to the pub ??


    UK parents have ALREADY been taken to court and fined for their children downloading / file shareing music.

    "A landmark settlement has been reached in a British court which will mean that parents whose children illegally swap music over the Internet could be fined.

    23 people who shared thousands of tracks unlawfully were forced to pay compensation totalling £50 000. Among those fined were a councillor, an IT director and parents of children who had used peer-to-peer music sharing Web sites."


    " Richard French of Groby, Leicestershire was fined £2500 after his children illegally shared their music on the internet "



    And if its a case of 'put me in jail and pay for foster care for my kids' ... thats
    probably the best thing for them with irresponsable parents like that.

    or if people break the law and are faced with fines, does simply manageing to get a woman pregnant automatically exempt you.
    .... maybe I can commit some murders and not be sent to prison because ' i have to look after my kids '

    .... or shall I'll just send out my kids theiving for me - maybe they can come round and nick all your stuff while your out.
     
  7. Mr Cat

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    yeah, the BPI are starting to do this now, been quite high profile over the last few weeks....lots of peeved off parents out there i'd say..!
     
  8. Miyazaki

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    It only takes a small precautionary measure to stop them tracking your IP. It isn't hard, and if people are getting caught out then they fools who deserve everything they get imo.
     
  9. Ethics Gradient

    Ethics Gradient
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    I didn't create the thread so much as a condemnation or the issue of internet file shareing as such.
    Its more a case of parents allowing kids on the internet - especailly without supervision or any clue as to what they are up to - and the acceptance of responsability if something goes wrong.

    Children can access any number of highly sensive materials - hard core porn, murder photos etc that filters DON'T stop - they can run up huge bills and or access / distribute illegal materials .. copyright stuff or even viruses by accident.
    It follows on from adults doing the same through ignorance - I am strongly against people who don't know what they are doing connecting to the internet unsupervised on PC's.
    There are literally hundreds of thousands of machines owned by clueless people out there that are being accessed to commit fraud , access to commit Denial of service for fraud, blackmail or pure malicousness .......... all of which is costing you and me ( the consumers ) money - through insurance and rises in product costs and availability.

    With file sharing, you just have to accept that it is illegal, and IF you get caught you have to deal with it. MOST people make copies of tapes, cds etc - the industry are only really going after those that distribute - ie those that share thier downloads ... and in most cases those that share ALOT of material.

    Its like copied software, clothing, perfume - the industry is not so much interested ( practically anyway ) of going after every individual - its the people selling it for profit illegally they want.
     
  10. pjclark1

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    already been used, and she got off.

    Software piracy is not, and has never been theft. Some people are just too stupid to tell the difference, so let me define theft in words you can easily understand.
    Theft is taking an item that does not belong to you, with the intention of permanently depriving the owner of it's use.

    1) So the only way you can take the "item" in this case is if you shoplift from HMV etc.
    2) Copying software does not "permanently deprive" the copyright owner
     
  11. Gary D

    Gary D
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    they will always choose the soft targets. i friend of mine who downloads the world every week seems to get away with it all the time, yet he has uploaded over half a terra-byte of data and downloaded the same. he even has a dedicated server for file sharing.

    Gary
     
  12. Nobber22

    Nobber22
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    So grass on him.
     
  13. Gary D

    Gary D
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    we did, they weren't interested. :mad: i think its because hes not at car boot sales selling sith or batman.

    Gary
     
  14. Ethics Gradient

    Ethics Gradient
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    and what about the other 8,000 kids each year whose mothers are in prison that 'didn't get off'
     
  15. pjclark1

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    copyright law = oppression
    you can't own ideas and shouldn't try. It's wrong and it's worse than theft.
     
  16. Gary D

    Gary D
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    i'm signing off this thread i can see a row coming on. :hiya:


    Gary
     
  17. Mr Cat

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    they're just maiing examples of the easy targets so that hopefully everyone else will stop...yeah right...
     
  18. Ethics Gradient

    Ethics Gradient
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    tell that the photographer, author, musician, software engineer, architect etc etc

    that puts bread on their table due to 'copyright'

    or is it fine for me to come into your place of work and claim that 'i did all that and claim the cash for it instead of you'

    GET REAL.

    I bet if you got sick you'd want the best medical treatment using the best machinery - shame no one would bother researching or designing it without being able to protect their 'ideas'

    its 'ideas' that allow us to grow as a society instead of all still being cavemen chucking spears at antelope.
    Agriculture, transports, trade are all 'ideas' - and for humans to develope them they have to have a 'benifit' to pay off against the loss of abitily to 'go hunting' while they think of them. Otherwise those that come up with ideas would starve to death .... and we'd still be wearing animal skins.

    shame you wouldn't using these forums if it wasn't for copyright.
     
  19. Gary D

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    ]

    told you........ :D


    Gary
     
  20. Dr Diversity

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    The solicitor delivered a summons, not a fine :) Seems a genuine story. It is about time copyright theft was treated seriously in the household. Businesses (should) repsect the rules so why shouldn't everyone else?
     
  21. stealther

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    I agree with Ethics kids should not be aloud on the internet unsupervised.
    The stuff I ve stumbled across in my time would have scared me for life If I wasnt already behond all hope. :D

    Not sure I want to encourage them to go to the park tho is that any safer?

    As regards to copywrite I have mixed feelings
    Never, never download movies.
    have downloaded an episode of a program that ive missed on air. (no different from using a VCR)
    Have downloaded music illegally. (without which I wouldnt have bought half as many albums as I have)
    I never share files as Iam to tight with my bandwidth :)
     
  22. mrtbag

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    Sounds like an excuse for people who are incapable of having their own ideas, stealing others to get by in life. :rolleyes:
     
  23. pjclark1

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    Not true, very few artists own the copyright to their own work.
    Most are oppressed by their employers, and forced into a life of wage slavery by the very laws you support.
     
  24. Gordon @ Convergent AV

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    My wife owned the copywrite to her work which was used without her permission. She took the guilty party to court under copywrite law and won. She wrote the stuff, she owned it. They stole it. Please explain how a companies theft of someone elses work is good.

    Also this is a civil action, not a criminal one so I don't think there is any danger of prison sentence.

    Gordon
     
  25. pjclark1

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    How about the companies that sell seed grain to 3rd world countries that produce crops with sterile seeds.
    (so you can't save seeds from the crop to replant next season, cos you don't have the copyright on that plant)

    that's all fine by you?
     
  26. mrtbag

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    No. that's a bit tight, but they do not HAVE to buy that seed.

    If I spent ten years of my life developing a cure for cancer, I would love to give out that information for free to everyone in the world. Unfortunately, I still have a family to support and a pension fund to save up. So I'm going to charge for the information (not a lot though).
     
  27. Ethics Gradient

    Ethics Gradient
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    oh thats okay then - lets remove copyright laws, rendering the production and distribution of music, films, books etc worthless.

    The only way a musician could make any money would be by live performance, which I supposed isn't that bad until others just copy their act and perform it in their place.

    shame the authors, film makers. poets and artists won't be able to make a living, because people would simply imediately make a copy and sell it as their own.

    Some people work with their hands, some with their mouths and some with their minds.

    Where as I wouldn't call you 'mental' - your beliefs are - if they are truely your beliefs and not something you choose to seem 'interesting'.

    I won't be argueing with you on this particular topic anymore - as I have already stipulated, MY thread was not actually about copyright law - and I am pretty sure you are in a minority of one with your particular extremist views.
     
  28. Gordon @ Convergent AV

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    I take it by that you mean that a company has engineered a strain of a grain that will grow in a certain climate, but that they want to get a return for their expense. That;s an interesting point. Should they be charitable in their work and give this technology away for free? Or if they were forced to give it away or not create the sterile seeds would they even bother making them.....would that be worse for the country that needs food? Id say that it does sound like an unethical use of that law myself but then so is my own example....and it would seem to me you are saying that theft of the copywrite on that seed would be good....where in fact it may create an even worse situation. I agree though that it would be better if there was an alternative solution that is suitable to all parties.

    Gordon

    Gordon
     
  29. pjclark1

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    I think you will find the chappie who originally coined the phrase "property is theft" has many followers. I'm surprised someone with your nick didn't know of him.

    I have always worked with my mind, and distrubuted my work freely to all who wanted it (or maybe I should say "stole" rather than "distributed", as I have never been in the position to own the copyright to any of my own work). I come from a family of film producers and actors, and you have probs viewed the results of my TV work on many occasions, none of us has ever made money from copyright laws (as far as I know). Percentages of profits were only ever given to a small elite (and not IMHO a particularly talented elite). I'm not even sure that copyright makes any difference to the profits, as many who copy, later purchase.

    I also suspect that removing all copyright laws would result in a far more diverse and interesting range of music and literature than the current "blockbuster" corporate structure enforces upon us. Removing recorded music from many venues, would result in many more able to earn a living as musicians.

    And finally now you have withdrawn from this discussion (after having lost)
    I wonder what artistic contribution you or your family has made to the world that makes you such a supporter of the copyright laws?
    May I make a guess at NONE, are you by any chance a family of office workers? (not that there is anything wrong with working in an office)
     
  30. Ed Selley

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    Had even more until they realised it doesn't work.
     

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