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Paradigm servo 15

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by RGOB, Dec 31, 2002.

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  1. RGOB

    RGOB
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    Does anyone know of a Richer Sounds that has the servo 15 in stock, I would like to view one prior to purchasing it as I understand they are rather large.

    Cheers
     
  2. Zig

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    I doubt you will manage to find one, however Nick Halliday from Richer Sounds who posts on this forum (member name nhalliday if you want to do a search) told me that he was expecting to bring in another shipment in February.
    Hope this helps.
     
  3. rjw

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    When I asked, he was in the process of placing the order, and it would arrive in Feb.

    I went for a CHT-15 instead from the power-buys as I am impatient :)
     
  4. GaryG

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    It's roughly a 2ft cube, small in subwoofer terms, large in your house. Try and get a cardboard box of similar size from your local retail park skip and try it for size.
     
  5. DSM

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    Nick Halliday do you know when the servo 15 will be in stock as I want one asap, I was told 2 weeks - 2 weeks ago and have been just told 4 weeks which is february sometime - as above.

    Thanks

    Dave;)
     
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    GaryG


    I like that idea Gary.

    Good stuff.


    Adzman
     
  7. Smurfin

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    RGOB as far as I'm aware RS stores don't actually stock these, and they need to be ordered in. The only ones you'll find are those returned by customers who weren't expecting them to be so big:D
     
  8. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    where r u based btw, if Cambridge is within driving distance I'd be only too happy to give you a demo
     
  9. Phil Hinton

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    I have been doing this tonight for a forum member. He had already heard the servo 15 and wanted to hear the CHT-15, I'll let him decide what he thought.:devil:
     
  10. russraff

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    I was that forum member! :D

    I thought, and still do, that the Servo 15 is a damn fine sub. For £500 you can't do better, despite the supposed reliability problems that people have had.
    If, however, you can afford an extra £170 - perhaps save up for a couple of months more - then the CHT15 is even better, and more easily available. I am certaily toying woth the idea of getting one after hearing it...

    Russell
     
  11. DSM

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    Which one would you prefer? I only want one for films and not for listening to music. From what im lead to believe the servo15's physical size is almost an 18" and has 25% more powerfull amp than the cht15 so should be a noticable difference between the two, what did you prefer about the cht15 that made it better?
    Im close to buying now and would be gratefull of any info.

    Thanks,

    Dave

    (Back in the day I had 18" scoop bins & twin 15" w bins so I have experienced very heavy b-line when I lived in a West London council estate with my parents in my bedroom, the cracks in the walls are still there today ahh memories then I got married!:devil:
     
  12. russraff

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    All very valid points, Dave, which I shall attempt to answer (hopefully without patronising):

    There is a lot more to building, or choosing, a subwoofer than looking at the specs! I used to have a REL Storm III which was a cracking sub yet it only has 150W of amplification and a 10” driver. So, though the size of the servo15 cone is indeed larger than the average 15 incher, I wouldn’t say that this is a real concern. Another example is the Tannoy Saturn and Revolution subs. Both have oversized 15” drivers, but can’t hope to get as low as either the CHT15 or the Servo15.

    Your point about the amplification is one that I have been thinking about since I had the dem yesterday. Basically, I think that the CHT15 has better amplification than the Servo15 allowing transients to be resolved more effectively. Also the CHT15 is a ported design that requires less effort to drive than a sealed design like the Servo15.

    After listening to both subs, I think the CHT15 is a better sub and would buy one tomorrow if I had the money!. Not only does it offer better stereo performance (and by proxy better AV performance, too) but the difference in price is surpassed by the gains in sound quality.

    Russell
     
  13. Smurfin

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    The CHT-15 is ported?:confused: I thought it was a sealed enclosure?
     
  14. Smurfin

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    DSM

    This was posted by The Beekeeper in a previous thread (hope he doesn't mind me extracting this). Just another point of view;)


    This was written on Saturday but I was unable to post because of forum problems, posted un edited and written before many of these other more recent comments:

    I think it pertinent people go back to see why certain forum member promoted Servo subs in the first place. Much has been written on this already so there is no need to cover it all again but basically Servo subs were promoted here because they played at the level you want, with the low frequency you needs (25 / 20 / 15 hz etc substitute what you want) BOTH at LOW distortion.

    In fact this is ALL a sub needs to do. High levels, low frequencies at low distortion. They are much simpler in this respect than ordinary loudspeakers (forgetting the active servo electronics) to do.

    Different models in a manufacturers range will give this differing performance on level and low freq extension. This is what you are paying the extra for, along with finish and ‘features’. All these servo style subs will operate at low distortion. Some are technically better than others but the differences are all academic and are numbers only (i.e. they are way below the threshold limit for audible detection being typically 5 or 10% distortion).

    Rival subs, with similar specifications, should sound similar if both are correctly set up. However room acoustic is completely swamping minor differences here.

    I now have had heard the HGS 15 and the Servo15. When properly set up and run at normal levels there is didly sqat between their performance. BOTH are excellent and both have their own strength and weaknesses. I like the HGS finish but the Servo goes louder etc etc. I am not sure I can tell them apart in a proper, statistically significant, double blind listening test under normal conditions. A view support by many serious sub affictionardos (and reviews). I had a very brief listen to the HGS 18 at Erics. It is also excellent. Perhaps the best single commercial sub I have ever heard to date. Is it better than two Velodyne HGS 15 or two Paradigm Servo 15s, no, not in my opinion and others (see posts on this site and Tag site from independent journalists who own both Servo15s and HGS subs (two of each) for a similar view). Some of these post go back ages comparing dual servo15s with HGS 18s. Years before we even thought of power buys. There is more on this on the Tag site where people have actually asked what to buy from the HGS 15 and Servo15s. The answer was there is little or no difference in performance and therefore go for the one with the best ‘bang for the buck’.

    I think comparing the CHT servo sub with the Paradigm is miss representing the situation. The HGS is the competition for Servo15. A quick trip Audioreview.com will also show a similar viewpoint with Servo owners buying Servos15 having looked at HGS 15s. I know there will be examples of both and personally I put little or no credence in Audioreview but I have heard all the products discussed now and I think it is a reasonable generic example for making a point. There are similar posts both here at AVFORUMS and on the Tag web site. Many from independent observers like journalists from the Audio Critic.

    The CHT is an excellent product and worth every penny. There are many satisfied owners out there on this forum where it is competing with the Rels of this world. Velodyne is the world leader for me a sub company (please don’t tell Rel, they will only get upset). It has a great importer and dealer set up (in the likes of Eric). Paradigm is of similar standing, having some of the greatest research and facilities available to any loudspeaker company. Their value for money approach is acknowledge the world over, they are however represented by Richer Sounds over here. We are all aware of their attitude. The choice is down to the customer.

    I am sorry Eric, I think we disagree on this one. I hope I don’t do any damage to your sales. I am sure I won’t but as a supplier of Velodyne you should perhaps not be commenting on ANY of the competition for fear you may be considered biased particularly as any negative posts that can easily be taken the wrong way. Your customers who trust you will just have to speak to you privately about this and follow / trust your belief that Velodyne are the best. but you can’t supply Paradigm / SVS anyway can you, even if you wanted to? Leave it to you friends, and they (we) will fight these battle on you behalf as we have done in the past. Just sit back and enjoy your sales. It was fine when you were having a pop at Rel and didn’t supply subs but now the story is different. A grey area me thinks and best just kept out of.


    Re DIY offering great value and potential greatness. Yes it is possible but it isn’t the norm in the UK. SVS and others I suspect are stunning but in the UK the usual approach is to throw a 100w amp and 8 inch driver into a homemade MDF box. There are of course exceptions, there always is. I am still hoping to find time to go and Steve’s SVSs. For those who really want to know about DIY look to Ramius posts for a wealth of great info.

    And what I would like to add today

    For those with massive rooms I would look at dual Paradigm Servo15s / Velodyne HGS 15 as a min. specification.

    Next up would be dual HGS 18s

    but with all of these there will be DIY alternatives like SVS.

    If you want to go further look for the big SVS (not heard them yet but they know what they are doing) or Dual 1812s.

    To be honest all the above are stunning but the popular CHT is not is this league. Sorry guys.


    I'll say no more. Still I'd love to hear the 2 subs side by side - does anyone have a CHT-15 in the Cambridge area?
     
  15. Geoffrey Shrek

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    Aaaannd we're off :D
    First blood to mr predictable himself, smurf :D
     
  16. Smurfin

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    heh, no that's all I'm going to say on it:D
     
  17. russraff

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    The CHT15 has a slot along the bottom of the sub at the front. This is the port.

    WOW, Smurfin! You got a Servo15? I would never have guessed... ;) :D

    Sorry, couldn't resist!

    I actually think the Servo is a good sub, too, it's just that I prefer the CHT15. I am absolutely sure that if someone sensible were willing to spend near 500 or 700 on a sub they would listen to it, and its competitors, themselves. That is what I did and stand by my choice.

    Russell
     
  18. Phil Hinton

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    Russell,

    Glad you enjoyed your visit, and the CHT15. I will also let you know when I have some new electronics hooked up to the M&k's, so you can hear them again. I told you that the M&K's would also tend to grow on you, they have a different sound which at first appears too detailed, but you warm to them.

    Smurfin, Nobody at all says the servo is bad, infact I like it alot for the money, but that little extra gives so much more with the CHT15, especially with music. But each person has their own preferences and ideas about what bass, and particularly good bass is.

    I should become Eric's northern Dem room at this rate, anyone else for a demo:rolleyes:
     
  19. Phil Hinton

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    Smurfin,

    If you want a day out to Durham with your servo 15, and set it up along with the CHT15 you are more than welcome, we could even drag people in off the street for blind tests just to make it fair.

    I am prepared to eat my words, are you?

    Phil.
     
  20. GaryG

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    Com'on Smurfin, you're not going to take that lying down are you?:D
     
  21. Ian J

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    I seem to recall that Smurfin started a thread on the same subject that died a death. He was the one that suggested a sub shoot out originally.
     
  22. GaryG

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    Forget the subs, let's just have the shootout!:)
     
  23. Smurfin

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    Yup I did, and yes it did die a death, twas a busy time of year (and no that's not an excuse).

    Phil, sounds a great idea but Durham is a bloody long way from Cambridge:(

    As for eating my words, if my ears tell me I'm wrong, then of course I will admit it:D Although as I've said previously, I don't think you can go wrong with either of them.

    Anyone a bit more central who has a CHT-15?

    Personally I'd love to see a shootout in the "bat cave", though as Eric and I have clashed swords a *few* times I'm not sure I'd be welcome. Which actually may not be a bad thing, as if I hear a HGS-18 I may have to hit my already-creaking bank account;)
     
  24. Orbital

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    Hi all,

    I recently had a chance to compare the Servo 15 directly to the HGS-15 HERE and I stick by what I said in it 100%

    As comparing it to the CHT-15, well I can only see it being as good if not better.

    Cheers

    Dave
     
  25. Geoffrey Shrek

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    I said we were off and I was right :devil:

    I reckon the only persons opionion I trust in this thread is russraffs. Everybody else owns either the paradign of velodyne. As usual they will all argue to the cows come home.
    Russraff is the only totaly unbias one.
     
  26. Orbital

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    Well what's the point of a forum if it's not to give your opinion and observations for gods sake? At least I went out of my way to test these two subs side by side (the HGS-15 not CHT-15 I must add). What constructive element have you got to add to this discussion Shrek? Please enlighten me?

    I have nothing to gain from my posts about the Servo 15. Yes I own one and yes it's a class piece of kit, but I say that because it's a class piece of kit, is that so hard to understand? Over the years I've listened to my fair share of subs and I can honestly say I think I now know a good one when I hear it. If the Servo can get that close to an HGS-15 I see no reason why it wouldn't be as good as the lesser CHT-15.

    To be honest Home Cinema comes a long way down on my priorities in life. I have wife, 2 ½ year old boy and another one on the way, also a career that is taxing but enjoyable. To think I could even be arsed to argue about a piece of kit just because I own it is laughable, I really have more important things to do. If something is sh*te I’d tell the whole world, its no skin off my nose. If I can help someone avoid making the same mistake as me I’d have no qualms in speaking up and I know that most of the other people who regularly post on this forum, Eric, Beekeeper, Adzman, Apocalypse, Smurfin, Ian J, THX 1138 etc etc would do exactly the same.

    Cheers

    Dave
     
  27. Geoffrey Shrek

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    Dave,
    keep your hair on mate. I was making a very valid point. Anytime someone owns anything the last thing they will say is its a piece of crap. You find them singing praises and nothing else.
    I was making the point that russraff was totaly unbiased. i stand by that thanks very much.
    no need to throw your dummy out the pram :D
     
  28. Apocalypse

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    What Orbital is trying to say is that without stating our opinions this forum would be dull and uninformative, I don't know about anyone else but when I see owners of products singing it's praise I sit up and take notice. For the record I've never heard a Servo 15 (properly) or an CHT15 but from listening to the well respected members on here it's clear that both are quality subs and the only way to decide which one you want is to do what russraff did. If I had to choose which was better based on opinions I'd probably say the Servo 15, but that's a very small probably :)
     
  29. Orbital

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    Did you actually read anything in my previous post Shrek?

    As for your generalisation that we all blindlessly speak the praises of anything we have bought well it certainly isn't how I go about things. As I stated above in my post. If its crap I'll say its crap, Jesus I owned a Sherwood amp once how wrong a purchase can you make!! (sorry Sherwood owners but it really was crud).

    At the end of the day the only thing that matters is how it sounds to you. My main speakers are Mission 773e’s which some people absolutely loath. They are bass light and they do colour the sound somewhat, but it’s the Mission colour which I happen to like. Am I wrong then because some people don’t like them? No of course I’m not. I like the sound and at the end of the day its me that listens to them. Have a listen and let your ears decide. If that’s what Russell (russraff) did then he was spot on and can’t do anymore, he made the right decision for him. When I compared the Servo to that HGS-15 I knew I’d made the right decision too.

    Cheers

    Dave
     
  30. DSM

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    [Stupid comments deleted by Ian J]

    Chill out & enjoy,

    Dave
     
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