Paradigm Defiance V12 Subwoofer Review & Comments

PlanetaryReference

Active Member
Every sub has an 'off' option which surely achieves the same thing?

I don't recall ever seeing a sub with a mute function but nor do I see any real need for one.

So, fish around behind the couch or under my disk to find the off button every time I want it off? And same again to turn it on? Or, include a mute on a remote and zero problem for the owner, and others.
 

Ultrasonic

Well-known Member
What is not clear from the review is how does the app connect to the sub. is it via Bluetooth connection? or does the sub need wifi access

Bluetooth. I know as I just downloaded to the Android app. out of curiosity and it told me I had to enable Bluetooth. For anyone interested the app. has a demo mode where it shows you what it would be like if you had a sub connected.

So, fish around behind the couch or under my disk to find the off button every time I want it off? And same again to turn it on? Or, include a mute on a remote and zero problem for the owner, and others.

I switch my sub off every night. Sorry if it's too difficult for you ;) .

Seriously though you are genuinely the first person I've every come across who has ever commented about wanting a mute option for a subwoofer. What you say about low frequency sound propagation is true but note that audibility is also volume dependent. Simply turning the volume on the whole system down helps a lot. In this particular case you also have a sub gain control on the phone app which allows adjustment over a -40 dB to + 12 dB range which should give you scope to make it a lot quieter relative to the rest of they system when you want. Whilst I can see a mute option would be helpful for what you want this sub is actually a lot more suited to what you're after than most. You'd hate my sub by comparison :).

I do think it's a real struggle to use any subwoofer in a non-detached property without annoying neighbours though, and I've only seriously used them since moving to a detached house.
 

Steve Withers

Reviewer
What is not clear from the review is how does the app connect to the sub. is it via Bluetooth connection? or does the sub need wifi access
I say in the review that it's a Bluetooth app, but I've added a few more references to the type of connection to make it more obvious.
 

Conrad.

Moderator
Bluetooth. I know as I just downloaded to the Android app. out of curiosity and it told me I had to enable Bluetooth. For anyone interested the app. has a demo mode where it shows you what it would be like if you had a sub connected.



I switch my sub off every night. Sorry if it's too difficult for you ;) .

Seriously though you are genuinely the first person I've every come across who has ever commented about wanting a mute option for a subwoofer. What you say about low frequency sound propagation is true but note that audibility is also volume dependent. Simply turning the volume on the whole system down helps a lot. In this particular case you also have a sub gain control on the phone app which allows adjustment over a -40 dB to + 12 dB range which should give you scope to make it a lot quieter relative to the rest of they system when you want. Whilst I can see a mute option would be helpful for what you want this sub is actually a lot more suited to what you're after than most. You'd hate my sub by comparison:).

I do think it's a real struggle to use any subwoofer in a non-detached property without annoying neighbours though, and I've only seriously used them since moving to a detached house.

You could also get a smart/wifi plug and connect the sub to that enabling it to be turned off from an app, or your phone if supported.

If the AVR supports it you could have a profile that doesn't use subs. Most will have a direct mode that bypasses all bass management.

And like @Ultrasonic says, I've never heard of anyone wanting a mute button either. And clearly neither have the sub manufacturers (or at least not in any volume) as product development would suggest that if there was the demand, at least one brand would have installed one.
 

gazzaboy

Active Member
As always, a good thorough review, enjoyed reading it. I'm contemplating a sub for a 2nd system, Denon AVR-X3500running with 2 x B&W 603s2 (from 2000) CC6s2, Dali Altecos and Missions as surrounds. This looks like a very interesting prospect, any thoughts as to how this might compare to SVS SB-1000?
I tried the system with my Rel T-7, but like that too much in my main system to change...
 

Ultrasonic

Well-known Member
I tried the system with my Rel T-7, but like that too much in my main system to change...

Comparing the specs this looks like it might be more capable than your Rel to me...
 

gazzaboy

Active Member
Comparing the specs this looks like it might be more capable than your Rel to me...
Yeah, spec wise, it's got a bit more going than the REL. That said, I'd listened to a few subs of comparable price when demoing the m-1s and Yamaha, and the REL was head and shoulders above everything else for music with that system. Can't wait to have an opportunity to judge by ear again...
 

Mike255

Well-known Member
You could also get a smart/wifi plug and connect the sub to that enabling it to be turned off from an app, or your phone if supported.

If the AVR supports it you could have a profile that doesn't use subs. Most will have a direct mode that bypasses all bass management.

And like @Ultrasonic says, I've never heard of anyone wanting a mute button either. And clearly neither have the sub manufacturers (or at least not in any volume) as product development would suggest that if there was the demand, at least one brand would have installed one.
I’ve used these remote control sockets - one for each of my two subs - for the last 5 years. I use another channel on the remote to switch side lights on and off. They’ve worked consistently without any problems over that time:

Amazon product
 

camelot1971

Well-known Member
Appreciate I am being pedantic here, but when you say Canadian build quality, they are actually designed and engineered in North America and made in China.
 

camelot1971

Well-known Member
Like the music mode's response, see little point to the others. Since when does 50Hz not propagate through walls and wake or disturb people? My last system's sub had a mute. Mute on the AVR controls and a mute button on its remote. I took it for granted that subs would have mute options these days, but it seems many don't. I see this one appears to not have one. A mute for a sub is so necessary in homes it should almost be a legislated requirement that no subs be approved for sale without a mute option, plus the ability to turn it down to zero, using a remote or app. What's up with companies selling below 20Hz subs into urban and suburban domiciles with no capacity to press a button to turn the thing on or off? Don't they realize most people don't want a sub on all the time, when everything that makes sound is connected to it and pumping out deep sound 24/7? Don't they realize the wife will lose it if we bring home a sub that can't be muted? = no sale.

That's a rather sexist comment. We don't live in the 1950's any more and my wife loves home cinema - including subwoofers!

Owning a sub doesn't mean you are ignorant of your neighbours but it also doesn't mean you can't run it loud occasionally at a suitable time of day. Common sense no?

If you live in an environment where someone complains when a mouse farts, then don't have a sub! There's no legal obligation to buy one to watch a film or have a home cinema system.
 

fowl3r

Active Member
Any idea how this compares to the old paradigm seismic?
 

SonOfSJ

Well-known Member
All hail from Edinbugh, Mr Withers! You'll know that I probably wouldn't consider buying this, but I do like subwoofer reviews, especially as most of my audio thrills are vicarious, and even more so in lockdown since the hi-fi shops are largely closed. However, in this case I'm slightly puzzled by the Alternatives section, where you say "For the same money as the V12 you could consider the Fyne Audio F3-12, which offers a 12-inch driver with more power but less depth." I do realise that it's now almost two years since you reviewed the Fyne Audio subwoofer, but in the Fyne Audio review it is stated "The F3-12 handled this particular test - the very beginning of Edge of Tomorrow - with the confidence of an ageing pro, no doubt thanks to all those years of experience in the design and engineering teams. As a result, the bass is both deep and well defined but also distortion-free, filling my home cinema with a wave of low frequency energy." Indeed, I believe that around that time the Fyne Audio subwoofer won a group test in Home Cinema Choice magazine.

So I'm surprised that this Paradigm subwoofer, which the review states doesn't go below 20Hz, is rated as being deeper than the Fyne Audio subwoofer??

Still, the inclusion of the Anthem Room Correction on the Paradigm V12 subwoofer is a major advantage over its peers. I've long wondered why, for instance, SVS don't offer any room equalisation or correction software built-into their subwoofers.
 

AmericanAudio

Active Member
AVForums Sponsor
Anyone know what retailers stock these or are they specialist dealers?
There is no stock in the UK Paradigm warehouse at the moment, we are putting 2 on back order as a customer wants one and the other will be stock.

Our customer has a specific need for app based control, so he can tweek the setting to match his 3 different listening areas. So i think these will be great for that and anyone whole values toy more that performance or has an even split of music to movie listening.

Estimated delivery to the warehouse is 3-4 weeks
 
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meduk1

Active Member
There is no stock in ths UK Paradigm warehouse at the moment, we are putting 2 on back order as a customer wants one and the other will be stock.

Our customer has a specific need for app based control, so he can tweek the setting to match his 3 different listening areas. So i think these will be great for that and anyone whole values toy more that performance or has an even split of music to movie listening.

Thanks, useful to know (also that you can supply them). I’ve just got a 2.0 setup (today) so going to let that bed in and the bank balance recover for a few months then see if I think I need a sub.
 

Ricky27

Well-known Member
I’ve used these remote control sockets - one for each of my two subs - for the last 5 years. I use another channel on the remote to switch side lights on and off. They’ve worked consistently without any problems over that time:

Amazon product
Great advice there, i often left my GEM 2 on after a movie session so decided to hook it up to a smart plug, which gives you power on/off voice control aswell as phone app/alexa control.
 

Coulson

Distinguished Member
I’ve used these remote control sockets - one for each of my two subs - for the last 5 years. I use another channel on the remote to switch side lights on and off. They’ve worked consistently without any problems over that time:

Amazon product
Connect the smart plug, receiver, TV and source device to a Harmony remote and you can turn off everything with with a single button press on the remote.
 

Mike255

Well-known Member
Connect the smart plug, receiver, TV and source device to a Harmony remote and you can turn off everything with with a single button press on the remote.
Sounds like a good idea. I used to have a Harmony remote, but had endless problems getting it to recognise some of my devices so gave up in disgust and got a refund on Amazon. When I (hopefully) sell up and move back to the U.K. this summer, I will buy a house after a period of renting, and my plan is to build a dedicated cinema room based around a Lyngdorf MP-40 and JVC N7. I will definitely look again at a Harmony remote and alternatives at that stage. I have eight remotes on my sofa at present - too many!
 

Coulson

Distinguished Member
Sounds like a good idea. I used to have a Harmony remote, but had endless problems getting it to recognise some of my devices so gave up in disgust and got a refund on Amazon.
The way around Harmony not recognizing certain devices like smart plugs is to get Google or Alexa certified plugs then link Harmony to your preferred smart platform. You can save money and buy a more powerful but basic BK sub ;) and use your phone or voice control to turn it on or off.
 

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