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Panorama tonight : Sharia 'weekend schools'

xit2050

Well-known Member
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lucasisking

Distinguished Member
Should be interesting...
Sharia lessons for pupils aged six: BBC uncovers 'weekend schools' | Mail Online

BBC - BBC One Programmes - Panorama, British Schools, Islamic Rules

40 schools... 5,000 children...
Can we still talk about 'a small minority' and 'not representative', as some like to keep pretending?

All over the news today.

Muslim pupils learn to cut off hands of thieves - Telegraph

What is most worrying is that, if weekend schools were found to be propagating Nazi propaganda they would be instantly closed pending full investigation. Unfortunately the antisemitism, homophobia and brutality of islamic jurisprudence finds shelter under the protective cloak of religious tolerance. No longer I say.
 

Ayub

Distinguished Member
Its sick and very sad, i say we bomb the Saudis :D

Saudi's should teach " us" to overthrow their racist, disgusting terror promoting terror tacists.
 

Ayub

Distinguished Member
All over the news today.

Muslim pupils learn to cut off hands of thieves - Telegraph

What is most worrying is that, if weekend schools were found to be propagating Nazi propaganda they would be instantly closed pending full investigation. Unfortunately the antisemitism, homophobia and brutality of islamic jurisprudence finds shelter under the protective cloak of religious tolerance. No longer I say.

behave dude, lets not do a bash muslims day again.

We get your point.
 

Dave

Distinguished Member
Before this thread gets going can I please ask that we don't turn it in to a bash Islam thread as that will end up only one way.

The issues for debate are real and blaming it all on "Islam" is narrow minded and missing the point entirely.
 

Dave

Distinguished Member
there are aspects of this ideology that should not be tolerated in a free society

Aspects that are not embraced by every Muslim at all, it's like saying every Catholic does not believe in using condoms or every Sikh carries a Kirpan.

Your statement is simply not accurate.
 

ganga

Active Member

Dave

Distinguished Member
What statement?? You are putting words in people's mouths, Dave.

See below, the words written are your own.

there are aspects of this ideology that should not be tolerated in a free society

Unfortunately the antisemitism, homophobia and brutality of islamic jurisprudence finds shelter under the protective cloak of religious tolerance

You are blaming an entire religion and branding everyone who believes in Islam as some sort of danger to our society when it is simply not the case.

If you are talking about the few crackpots who would see our society burned to the ground then I would agree but I don't think you are.
 

lucasisking

Distinguished Member
You are blaming an entire religion and branding everyone who believes in Islam as some sort of danger to our society when it is simply not the case.

No Im not Dave. And I would really like you to take back this statement please, as it is unfair and not reflective of my feelings at all.

I said there are aspects of islamic ideology that are antisemetic, homophobic and brutal. The evidence for this can be found throughout the islamic world. But I never once claimed that 'all muslims' (or even a majority of muslims) share these feelings. Nor did I claim that all interpretations of islam lead to hatred and bigotry.

I regularly talk with Muslims and am a subscriber to BMSD.

I have read, re-read and triple read my previous comments, and cannot find anything unreasonable in what I've said.
 
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Dave

Distinguished Member
No Im not Dave. And I would really like you to take back this statement please, as it is unfair and not reflective of my feelings at all.

I said there are aspects of islamic ideology that are antisemetic, homophobic and brutal. The evidence for this can be found throughout the islamic world. But I never once claimed that 'all muslims' (or even a majority of muslims) share these feelings. Nor did I claim that all interpretations of islam lead to hatred and bigotry.

I regularly talk with Muslims and am a subscriber to BMSD.

I have read, re-read and triple read my previous comments, and cannot find anything unreasonable in what I've said.

Fair enough, your comments did come across as if you were making sweeping statements about all of Islam.

However if that is not the case then I apologise.
 

Pecker

Distinguished Member
Should be interesting...
Sharia lessons for pupils aged six: BBC uncovers 'weekend schools' | Mail Online

BBC - BBC One Programmes - Panorama, British Schools, Islamic Rules

40 schools... 5,000 children...
Can we still talk about 'a small minority' and 'not representative', as some like to keep pretending?

Yes we can. I want to see exactly what is being taught and how it's being taught.

Let me give an example. When I teach the death penalty in RE I look at non-religious arguments, Christian ideas, and Muslim ideas. When I teach about crime and punishment I do the same, and I teach pupils what it says in the Qu'ran about chopping hands off.

Will I be put under investigation by Panorama?

If these schools teach that, under Sharia law thieves hands can be chopped off, then that's factually correct. As long as they're not suggesting people in the UK do that against the law of the land, then what's the problem?

More worrying for me are the racist views being taught. It should be pointed out that, if the story is true, the law is being broken already. The correct action should be taken.

Steve W
 

lucasisking

Distinguished Member
Fair enough, your comments did come across as if you were making sweeping statements about all of Islam.

However if that is not the case then I apologise.

Thank you.

I agree its important not to allow feelings of disgust over this to overflow into bigotry or 'anti-muslim' sentiment. And I'm confident you would deal with it if that line is ever crossed (cant be an easy subject for a mod!). But it wont be crossed by me.

But it is equally important to be able to identify and speak up about aspects of a religious culture are at odds with society, as they are here. It may not be at all reflective of muslims here in the UK, but it does represent a type of Islam (as interpreted and practiced in Saudi Arabia for example) that we cant allow to pervade our society.

It isn't always easy to put that across without sounding prejudiced- i'll try to be more careful with my phraseology. (even more so! ;))
 

xit2050

Well-known Member
If these schools teach that, under Sharia law thieves hands can be chopped off, then that's factually correct. As long as they're not suggesting people in the UK do that against the law of the land, then what's the problem?

We will see tonight what they are actually teaching, won't we?
:rolleyes:

There are diagrams showing children where cuts must be made. One passage says: ‘The specified punishment of the thief is cutting off his right hand at the wrist. Then it is cauterised to prevent him from bleeding to death.'
 
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lucasisking

Distinguished Member
A summary of the upcoming programme.

Investigation which uncovers disturbing evidence that some Muslim children are being exposed to extremist preachers and fundamentalist Islamic groups. We also expose the part-time schools where hate is on the curriculum. The programme asks why school inspectors have missed the warning signs and examines the impact this could have on young Muslims' ability to integrate into mainstream British life.

The latter sentence is probably the most salient- Pecker do you agree? Does political correctness, and the desire not to offend, cause us to turn a blind eye to fundamentalism?

I would also personally take issue with the phrase 'muslim children', but I'd let it slip for the purposes for concision.
 

Pecker

Distinguished Member
A summary of the upcoming programme.

Investigation which uncovers disturbing evidence that some Muslim children are being exposed to extremist preachers and fundamentalist Islamic groups. We also expose the part-time schools where hate is on the curriculum. The programme asks why school inspectors have missed the warning signs and examines the impact this could have on young Muslims' ability to integrate into mainstream British life.

The latter sentence is probably the most salient- Pecker do you agree? Does political correctness, and the desire not to offend, cause us to turn a blind eye to fundamentalism?

I would also personally take issue with the phrase 'muslim children', but I'd let it slip for the purposes for concision.

Lucas, I completely agree.

What I suspect the Mail will do is to take a different approach, and imply that all mulims in the UK should go out as vigilantes and cut the hands of thieves.

The vast majority of muslims in the UK - I suspect the vast majority of children being taught at these schools - will not feel that amputation should be carried out against British law, or that mulims should be above race relations laws.

Doubtless there'll be a few extremists, but all 5,000 children, and every teacher in every one of those 40 schools will be painted as such.

Steve W
 

Pecker

Distinguished Member

This is the problem with how it's being reported - what does that mean: "Muslim pupils learn to cut off hands of thieves"?

Taught that it's right to do so? Many non-religious Daily Mail readers believe in it!

Taught that that's what it says in the Qu'ran? Everyone in this thread knows that it says so in the Qu'ran, so was whoever told us that fact evil?

Taught that the children should grow up to do this to thieves against UK law? I doubt that is what is happening, but we may see tonight.

Taught that muslims should peacefully campaign for a change to the law? Isn't this their right, as it is for all of us?

It's not what's being taught, but how it's being taught. Context is everything.

Steve W
 

xit2050

Well-known Member
Yes we will.

I will, you won't, because you have already made your mind up beforehand.
You are already in your usual defensive position before even seeing the programme.
 
D

dovercat

Guest
Quran 5:38 As to the thief, Male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from Allah, for their crime: and Allah is Exalted in power.

What happens if somebody is later found innocent?
They get a discount at the second-hand store.
 

lucasisking

Distinguished Member
This is the problem with how it's being reported - what does that mean: "Muslim pupils learn to cut off hands of thieves"?

Rather a mis-named article. I quoted the Telegraph one in order to avoid (as a previous poster said) the similar Daily Mail report- which tends to be discredited on account of the newspaper's rep.

The report (and today's news bulletins) also mention the more worrying antisemetism (likening Jews to monkeys and pigs) and gays (advocating violent execution for gay sex). Teaching about amputations is not a major concern in itself- since it wouldn't happen here. But there's little we can do about peoples attitudes to Jews and Gays if we allow this Saudi brainwashing to continue.
 

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