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Panny TX28 - PS1C v. DT4

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by Paul.T, Dec 30, 2003.

  1. Paul.T

    Paul.T
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    Hi,

    I am in the market for a new widescreen TV. From what I have read on this forum I should be happy with a 50Hz flat screen unit with at least one RGB SCART in for my DVD player (Pioneer DV-636D).

    I have been toying between a Pannasonic TX24PS1 and the 28" version as well as the Sony KV24LS35. I am still working on obtaining approval for a 28" from my other half who is concerned because of the small room (10' by 10').

    Was in JL today looking at all the above and others and noticed that they had the TX28DT4 for less money that the TX28PS1C, just £429, which seems quite good based on comparisons on Pricerunner and Kelkoo. Looking at the Panasonic website they look identical other than the Digital receiver, and it not being clear if the DT4 has an RGB Scart.

    Getting to the point does anyone know if PS1C and the DT4 are identical in all respects other than the IDTV? If they are I'll almost certainly get one given the apparently great price!

    Thanks for any advice you can give me!
     
  2. KTF

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    My understanding is that they are the same set apart from one having DTV and the other not.

    The price for the DT4 certainly looks good (unusual for John Lewis imo).

    The difference between that and the PS1 is the price of a set top box anyway so if you want Freeview then go for it.

    Edit: The DT4 is £529 and PS1 £449 on johnlewis.com whic is higher than other online places.
     
  3. Kahless725

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    Hi,

    The PS1 is £389ish at Empire Direct. Another difference between the sets is that the PS1 is newer allthough I imagine there isnt much between them in picture q.

    What it comes down to in my opinion is. How much do you want IDTV, if you have sky then it is redundant. Which set is the best looking?



    Robert.
     
  4. mister_d

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    Posted this in another thread earlier, but if you're after a PS1, you can use Allders.com pricematch against this to get it for £379.79 including a 5-year warranty. Handy if, like me, you don't have a John Lewis anywhere near you.

    After lengthy contemplation, and a good 18 months after I started looking at 28" widescreens, I've just ordered one myself - hope I don't end up regretting it...
     
  5. flynnmeister

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    With the pricematching - do you have to purchase the item for Allders first and then fill out the form, or fill out the form first?

    Please let me know as I am going to buy the TX28PS1 from somwhere and Allders would be a bargain with the 5yr warranty.

    Thanks

    Ben
     
  6. Paul.T

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    mister_d, thanks for the Allders tip. Much better than JL as they will match an online price from Comet. JL won't. I have submitted the price match and look forward to their offer!

    Thanks again.
     
  7. flynnmeister

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    Well I filled in the price match - and the matched it!!

    BUT ITS OUT OF STOCK from the online allders shop :( :( :(

    Ben
     
  8. Paul.T

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    Just had the same result. Have enquired as to when they will have stock. What's the betting that it won't be until the price match 7 days has expired?

    Have ordered the DT4 from JL as a back-up but would rather rather have the PS1 and save £50.
     
  9. mister_d

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    After ordering on Wednesday, I received a call today (though I wasn't in to take it myself) saying that they won't be able to deliver before the 13th, a week on Tuesday.

    Probably means they ran out of stock sometime between receiving the pricematch request (Monday) and processing the order, but also suggests they're expecting some more back in relatively soon.
     
  10. MarkA

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    For those interested in the TX28DT4 Comet are currently doing it for £430. If you get Currys to pricematch Comet they also give you 10% of the difference as well! Especially good as they sell it for £550. This brings the price down to £418.
     
  11. Paul.T

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    Well, Allders e-mailed to say that I could order last week. Having done so, with the price match, I am expecting delivery next Friday. Not bad all in all, TX28PS1 for £379.79 inc. 5yrs Guarantee. Allders.com have proved themselves to be more flexible in their price match policy than JL and therefore got the sale!!

    Hope to the TV lives up to my expectations now.........
     
  12. flynnmeister

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    I managed to get the TX28PS1 from Allders too - its coming this wednesday :D

    Ben
     
  13. Paul.T

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    I'd be keen to know what you think of it once you've set it all up!
     
  14. mister_d

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    Received my PS1 today, and predictably I have mixed feelings towards it.

    On the plus side, the picture quality is almost as good as I'd been led to believe. Admittedly I don't really have a reference point here except a 32" Mitsubishi from Powerhouse (which went back after a few days due to exhibiting almost every flaw I'd ever been warned about and quite a few I hadn't) and my now redundant 21" 4:3 Toshiba, plus the increased screen area combined with my customary short viewing distance has revealed flaws and artifacts I never realised existed in transfers I had previously thought to be very good, but sitting a little further back it looks virtually flawless on decent quality material.

    I've barely noticed any dot crawl or grain that doesn't clearly result from imperfections in teh source material, and the continuous high pitched buzz that my Toshiba suffers from, while not completely absent, is much more muted. The flickering is barely perceptible to me even up close, so I have no doubt that 50Hz was the correect choice with all else being equal, if only to save money.

    Overall, for DVD playback it's definitely a major improvement over the Toshiba - which, in spite of its budget status and terminal 60Hz moire problems, wasn't too shabby at all.

    Unfortunately, there are quite a number of imperfections. I suppose I was subconsciously aware that I would, in all probability, experience at least some minor difficulties with this particular model, but I was so determined to buy something after all this time planning that I chose to cast these concerns out of my mind.

    The worst offender is the geometry. It's quite a way off in almost every way imaginable. Straight lines simply aren't straight, especially towards the extremes of the screen, and the top right curves noticeably downwards to an extent that can't possibly be corrected with the tilt controls. While it may be possible to use the service menu (which I've intentionally stayed away from tonight) to alleviate if not fix some of this, I assume the variation in screen dimensions resulting from rapid changes in localised brightness levels cannot. The aforementioned Mitsubishi suffered particularly from this, and I was quite disappointed to see my Panasonic doing the same, albeit not quite as noticeably.

    Next up is convergence, which again is quite poor towards the edges and not too great in the centre. There is considerable colour bleeding (chiefly red on the left side and blue on the right), particularly around whites, and when I first saw some text on my DVD player setup screen I was quite taken aback by how out-of-focus it looked.

    There are other niggles, such as a vertical line about 1/8 from the left-hand side of the screen (only visible against light backgrounds), and, if I'm not imagining it, some slight (and possibly not unintentional) haloing around bright images towards the right, but these don't bother me particularly. Whether or not I can live with the more major faults is something I'll consider carefully over the next week or so while I scrutinise - sorry, I mean watch - some of the DVDs I've been saving until now.

    I am a bit of a perfectionist, as should be quite obvious from this post, but at the same time I'm much happier watching this TV than my old one even in spite of all its problems. Requesting a replacement just seems like so much hassle, and not entirely justifiable given that the set isn't faulty as such, so I may simply live with it.

    Sorry for talking at such great length about this - I should probably have posted it in a separate thread or perhaps not at all given that I haven't got anything new to say about the PS1. It is vaguely relevant to the original topic though, and I thought it might be useful to anyone considering or waiting for one of these sets, if only to emphasise that its flaws needn't be fatal.

    Good luck to those expecting theirs to arrive tomorrow, I'd be very interested to hear what you have to say about them :)
     
  15. Londondecca

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    A few days ago I got a Sony KD 28DL10 to replace the 3 previous Panasonic DT4 TV's. The picture quality is not quite as good as the Panasonic but and it is a big but, it does not have any big problems unlike the DT4's. They all had loud humming noises when showing a white picture, black backgrounds would switch to gray and back again, DVB would simply stop working and require the unit to be switched off and then on.

    Therefore I am happy with my Sony. A good, not great machine and most importantly, no real problems. The shame is that Panasonic have some serious quality problems.
     
  16. Paul.T

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    Thanks for your comments mister_d. Mine arrived on Friday, but I had to work up until last night, and only now have the time to set it up :(

    Anyway, am now going out to get a couple of DVDs with THX Optimiser, and perhaps the Digital Video Essentials as well, to help me.

    Will let you know how I get on!
     
  17. DaveC

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  18. Londondecca

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    My new sony is going back, terrible picture quality. DVD pictures look grainy and dirty. The Panasonic's had problems but at least the pictures were good (but not without problems)
     
  19. Paul.T

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    Well, what do I say now. I've been putting off writing up my views on the PS1 since it turned up as, to be honest, I'm still not sure what they really are. The TV is still sat happily in my front room though, so it can't be all that bad.....here goes.

    Last time I posted it had just turned up, but I hadn't been able to try it. Eventually I sat down on Sunday evening, having rented AOTC (for the THX Optimiser, film is appalling IMHO) and City of God (excellent film). Switching it on and watching TV seemed fine, but on closer inspection there were plenty of wobbles in the geometry at the extremes of the picture. Moving on to the THX Optimiser it was even more apparent that there were blatant errors.

    I also bought the PAL version of DVE and skimmed though that quickly. I could identify the same issues as set out by mister_d earlier, in particular:

    a) Poor realisation of straight lines, particularly toward edges, and when picture is not full screen, the boundaries can distort quite a bit. Don't appear to have the top right curve down though!

    b) Colour bleed, red on left and blue on right.

    I don't appear to have the vertical line 1/8 from left edge, but I haven't searched for it either.

    One thing that is annoying is that some of the basic picture adjustment functions do not appear to be available when watching a DVD (via AV1 - RGB), e.g. Sharpness. This prohibited making some of the THX adjustments, and latterly those for DVE.

    Let me try and reach a conclusion. I get the feeling that I'm not as observant as most of the afficianados who post here as either I'm just lucky with the set I got, or I can't see some of the problems. On the whole the picture is great. Sound isn't as good as my faithful old Nokia 21", but this is secondary as I have a reasonable surround system. The problems which are there are obvious when running test screens, but rarely bother me during normal playback. I guess the worst thing is the poor straight lines and boundaries. All in all its not bad enough for me to send back, or even call out an engineer (yet), but it probably is bad enough for me to want to dabble with some of the service settings to improve it using DVE for guidance.

    I would welcome any advice from people who have used the service menus to improve the picture, particularly in respect to what not to touch.

    I haven't owned any other widescreen TVs to compare against, but am pretty happy with the PS1, especially at £380!!

    :p
     
  20. mister_d

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    Your sentiments are very similar to mine - despite the presence of numerous easily identifiable imperfections, I find most of them surprisingly ignorable even when I'm consciously aware of and actively looking out for them. Watching films on this TV is definitely a far more enjoyable experience than every other TV we've ever owned, including the dependable and largely flawless 25" Sony downstairs.

    The only two that I find majorly concerning - and one of them more out of general principle than because it is particularly distracting - are the geometry at the edge of the screen (both the curvature and the 'blooming' phenomenon) and clearly audible hum through all audio outputs when the proportion of white displayed goes above a certain level. The former annoys me mainly because it's there and I can see it (particularly on animation, which tends to pan very smoothly, resulting in the field of view appearing to alter at the edges of the screen), but the latter is genuinely irritating, especially since raising the volume only exarcerbates it. If I'm truly desperate I suppose I can plug my amplifier directly into the DVD player and swap it over on the comparatively rare occasions that I want to use another source.

    I'll have to come to a decision soon I suppose, and I'm erring towards asking for a single replacement/engineer visit to see if the problems are sorted, and then keeping it unless it's even worse.
     
  21. davidmbell

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    I have the 32" version of this TV - TX-32DT4C - I managed to get this last August at the bargain price of £550 from Empire Direct in Bradford. Got a price from their website and then went along to their superstore and they price matched it (down from £799!).

    Now I can't say I have ever noticed any of the problems you guys have mentioned, but I guess they might be there if I look close enough.

    In normal tv watching I find it great. Some DVD's I get some jaggy edges on menus and things. The screen needed rotating slightly when I got it, but otherwise its great.

    Could do with another Scart socket, but otherwise, for £550 for a 32" widescreen with IDTV it was a bargain!

    Plus paid with Barclaycard so got extra year warranty with that.

    EDIT (2 mins later) I DO actually get the dreadful hum on the TV's Audio Outputs, most noticable when the screen displays bright things. I take it this is a common fault, or should I have mr engineer out?

    David
     
  22. Londondecca

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    The hum is a known problem and can be fixed by an engineer
     
  23. mister_d

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    Is it usual for engineers to be sent out rather for repair jobs than simply a replacement unit, or does it depend heavily on the manufacturer/retailer?

    Aside from the difficulties arising from being out of the house all day during the week, I think I'd be much more confident about having my TV examined by an engineer than receiving a replacement which could easily be equally afflicted by faults or perhaps worse. I guess the fact that I've sat indecisively on it for a few weeks now doesn't help either...
     
  24. Londondecca

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    My first few DT4's were replaced, then I got a sony dl10, now I am going back to a DT4. I am expecting the hum problem and will get the engineer to fix it.

    It pains me to say good things about Comet but the engineers have rejected each TV of mine and comet have not made a fuss.

    I did discover from the last engineer that many problems he is called to relate to poor aerial and cable problems. It seems that modern processors are poor at rejecting noise and will dutifully replicate that noise onto the screen. He claimed many of the aerials sold were of cheap quality and I could not repeat his description of the cable quality. My aerial is only 18 months old but he suggested I get the signal checked by a professional firm (not his btw).
     
  25. davidmbell

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    I discovered a new problem the other day, that I was ignoring hoping it might go away...

    Every now and again I got a small bit of text on screen on the left hand side stating which screen mode I am in.

    So while watching Sky it will pop up Panasonic Auto. It goes and then seconds later it reappears. It doesn't happen all the time, but it doesn't seem to happen for any reason (ie the image on the screen hasn't chaned formats (like programmme to ad or vice versa).

    I wondered if it was what I was watching or the screen format I had the TV set on, so last night watched a DVD and selected 16:9. It was fine for a while then started doing it again!

    Right pain in the arse :(

    Is this something anyone is familiar with? Shall I do a factory condition reset and see how I get on, or am I doing something wrong..

    Also, when you guys say you have had the engineer out, how do I sort this? Do I call Panny, or Empire where I bought it?

    Cheers

    David
     
  26. dalesman

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    I too am contemplating buying a Panasonic TX28. I have considered the TX28DT4, as against the TX28PS1, but am not sure what the picture quality will be like on digital channels with the DT4?

    At the moment I have an old 25" Sony, which still gives a superb picture but is the old aspect ratio of course. I have a Grundig digibox which has both RGB and S-Video outputs, either of which can be used with the scart inputs on the Sony to produce really good digital pictures.

    I am concerned that the digital reception on the DT4 may involve some PAL processing ie will not be RGB, and so will not be as good as my existing set-up. I know I could buy a TX28 and still use the digibox, I intend to do so, but on another satellite!

    Any advice would be most welcome.

    Thanks
     
  27. robjarv

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    My girlfriend has a panasonic tx28ps1.

    I've just moved in with my girlfriend and it really bugs me that all the settings menus on the telly are in a foreign language!

    How can I get the text back to english....:lease:
     

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