1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Panny E85 - bleak colours

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by giuliopan, Jan 26, 2005.

  1. giuliopan

    giuliopan
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2004
    Messages:
    37
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi everyone,

    My chain is:

    SAT ->(Scart-RGB)-> E85 ->(Scart-RGB)-> TV

    I get bleak colours when I play video directly from the E85. When watching satellite TV, colours are full, even if the signal goes through the E85.

    If I record something from SAT, and timeslip to it, I can notice a clear variation in colour, which becomes bleak and pale.

    Is anyone experiencing that?

    Any solutions?

    --Giulio
     
  2. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,204
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Argyll
    Ratings:
    +2,261
    Do you AV2 set to Video or S-Video as opposed to RGB? Check in Functions/Setup/Connections. Ensure component is OFF as that forces AV1 output to Video.
     
  3. giuliopan

    giuliopan
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2004
    Messages:
    37
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    I checked and both AV1 and AV2 are set to RGB. Strange thing is that it hasn't got anything to do with the recorded picture quality.

    Could you (and anyone owning an E85) try this:

    While you are watching a channel (signal coming through AV2), press the "Functions" key. Do you notice a sudden change in the colour's brightness, just before the menu is displayed?

    I certainly do. It's as if the Panny taking control causes the signal to be altered in some way.

    Does anyone have this problem too?

    Thanks
     
  4. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,204
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Argyll
    Ratings:
    +2,261
    That's part of the design! It dims the background whilst you are in the menu - it occurs on all the recorders AND the HighMAT players (there is an option to set it to grey screen somewhere...). It should undim itself when you leave the menu - if not then try resetting the recorder to the factory defaults to see if that helps.
     
  5. giuliopan

    giuliopan
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2004
    Messages:
    37
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    Thanks, but no, I'm not talking about the menu dimming. When the E85 kicks in, just BEFORE the menu appears, the colours change - they become exactly the same I get when I play videos from the E85 - and THEN the menu appears and the background is dimmed.

    But before that, the colours change just for a moment; they are slightly bleaker.

    Any other ideas?

    Thanks
     
  6. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,204
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Argyll
    Ratings:
    +2,261
    Afraid not - it's not something I've actually seen before on a Panny. I would suggest there is something causing interference but your setup seems quite straight forward - your using fully shielded, high quality scarts I assume?
     
  7. giuliopan

    giuliopan
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2004
    Messages:
    37
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    Yes, I am.

    I would rule out bad cables anyway as when the Panny is off (or even on, but not 'actively participating'), the signal is perfect, even if it goes through the same path, using the same cables. The Panny just seems to degrade the signal (or simply change it), but I can't understand what's causing it.

    There are no colour regulations that you're aware of, I guess?

    I'd really like to know if anyone else is experiencing the same problem, it can be clearly seen just after the Function button is pressed, and before the menu is displayed...

    Thanks
     
  8. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,204
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Argyll
    Ratings:
    +2,261
    That is normal: you press the Function button, the menu background is put on screen and then the menu appears. If you select grey screen as the background then the second you press the Function button that is what you get - and there is a short delay before the menu appears. If you have the default semi-transparent background then the same occurs which would be you dim effect.

    However this should not occur when you don't have the menu activated. If it does there is a problem somewhere...
     
  9. giuliopan

    giuliopan
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2004
    Messages:
    37
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    I checked the manual, and my Panny doesn't have an option to set the colour of the background.

    I do have an option called "Grey Background", under Display, for which the description is: "Select 'Off' if you do not want to have the unit show the grey background when reception is weak". I tried that, and it works as stated, but has nothing to do with the dimming.

    However, I do get a grey background when pressing the Function button WHILE the timer is active; if it isn't, then the background is dimmed. I think that's so because when the timer is on, you can't see the signal coming through (in fact, you cannot even select channels).

    But, alas, all that has got nothing to do with my problem. As you say, the second I press the Function button, the Panny takes control. Just a moment before the menu appears, you can see that the signal is not passively going through the E85 anymore, and it is changed in some way.
    The change in colour is slight (I'd dare say VERY slight) but if you persist, you can see it. That cannot be a dimming effect, because it would be so imperceptible people would never notice it, thus making it pointless; and more, those are the kind of colours I always get when the Panny is actively outputting a video signal. Very slightly bleaker but definitely so.

    I wonder because the change in colour is so slight most people won't notice if they aren't looking for it. I don't doubt you don't have this problem, but I'd like a larger statistic ;)

    It would be useful if more users would try that and tell what they see.

    Thanks
     
  10. micke

    micke
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Try to press Enter + 0 on the remote control, if you haven't already tried this.

    Regards
     
  11. cdb

    cdb
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2003
    Messages:
    454
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +43
    What I've noticed on my E95 is that the Y-C picture is better than the RGB picture even when I swap leads around and I know it shouldn't be :confused:
     
  12. Rojo Habe

    Rojo Habe
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2003
    Messages:
    137
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +3
    Just because everyone tells you RGB is better, doesn't necessarily make it true for everyone. There's a long thread here somewhere (sorry, it was a while ago and I couldn't even begin to guess how to find it again) about how many conversions the signal goes through after it it enters your TV - some TVs will actually convert an RGB signal to S-video before applying all their clever digital processing. If yours is one of those, it could well be that S-video is better, because it's one less conversion involved.

    Having said that, the RGB picture should still be good. If it looks terrible there's something wrong somewhere.
     
  13. giuliopan

    giuliopan
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2004
    Messages:
    37
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    Micke, you hit the spot! :thumbsup: Thanks!

    This is what I get:

    ---TV--- : good colours
    ---DVD--- : bleak colours

    Now I wonder, what is the meaning of all that? What's happening? :confused:

    And why, when I play stuff on the E85, do I get the colours of the ---DVD--- setting?

    Thanks!
     
  14. micke

    micke
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I had the same problem and read the Operating Instructions very thoroughly. Do you have the Operating Instructions?

    In my version of the Operating Instructions the Enter + 0 is described on page 9 under "Connecting a satellite receiver...".

    Regards
     
  15. Tellyfiend

    Tellyfiend
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Messages:
    225
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +13
    Try to press Enter + 0 on the remote control, if you haven't already tried this.


    What does this do?
     
  16. micke

    micke
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0

    On page 9 in my version of the Operating Instructions it says:

    --------------------------------------------------------------
    Viewing video from the decoder on the television while the unit is stopped, or while recording

    If you connected the television to the AV1 terminal and the decoder to the AV2 terminal on this unit, press 0 + Enter. (“DVD” appears on the unit’s display.)
    Press again to cancel. (“TV” appears on the unit’s display.)
    lf the television is compatible with RGB input, the RGB output signal from the decoder can also be output from the main unit the same way.
    --------------------------------------------------------------
     
  17. giuliopan

    giuliopan
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2004
    Messages:
    37
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    I too read the Operating Instructions thoroughly but I confess this slipped out of my mind.

    Reading that description, what I understand is that pressing Enter + 0 either lets the RGB signal from AV2 pass thru the E85 passively (untouched) - and I presume that would be 'TV' -, or 'processed' by the E85 ('DVD', I suppose).

    In fact, when it's on 'TV', colours are good as the original, but when switched to 'DVD', they lose brightness and vitality.

    The problem is - in my experience - that EVERYTHING coming out the E85 has these bleak colours!!! :thumbsdow

    Unless it can be corrected in some way, to me this is a BIG letdown :( :( :( . I've seen people complaining about subtle differences in the quality of the picture, either recorded or played, but this is very, very bad - it means that when you play videos from the E85, colours are never faithful!

    However, in my tests, it seems that the recorded picture is as good as the original. If I burn it to DVD-R, and watch it on another player, colours are back to normal.

    But this can't be! Do I have to have another player to have a good picture?!?

    Thanks
     
  18. johnjackthom

    johnjackthom
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2001
    Messages:
    711
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    46
    Location:
    Northumberland
    Ratings:
    +247
    Giuliopan, it sounds to me like you've tried everything within reason to sort this out and it's starting to sound like a faulty E85.
    There is no way you should be experiencing such a difference in saturation between playback and simply viewing through the machine.
    Can you get a replacement machine?
     
  19. giuliopan

    giuliopan
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2004
    Messages:
    37
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi John,

    I'll try getting a replacement, even if the machine is now about 6 months old.

    I presume you have a good E85, can you confirm that you can see no difference in colours when pressing Enter + 0?

    I wonder about the other user(s) saying 'I had the same problem', is their E85 faulty too...?

    Thanks

    --Giulio
     
  20. Tellyfiend

    Tellyfiend
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Messages:
    225
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +13
    I can see no difference, but then again my TV is connected via component leads to my TV.
     
  21. Bravo Brooks

    Bravo Brooks
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I am experiencing exactly the same problem. My e85 is connected to a Philips 9616 via RGB scart. I am using standard analogue tv via aerial (no sky or freeview).

    When watching normal tv pictures are great, but on switching to av channel there's a definite drop in quality.

    I spoke to a dealer about this and he suggested that it's possible that the tv's tuner is better than the tuner in the e85, which would explain it.
    Oddly, the signal from my Panasonic vhs recorder is actually better than the e85 and is practically identical to the tv picture(!)

    The e85 does record the signal it 'sees' faithfully and I can't fault it in that respect, but it is recording an inferior signal and I've started watching programmes 'live' if at all possible as the difference is beginning to bug me!

    Any ideas!!???!
     
  22. micke

    micke
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Please correct me if I’m wrong but is it not the other way around, i.e.:

    DVD – untouched RGB signal
    TV – ‘signal affected by TV settings’

    I have (the same as you have):

    SAT ->(Scart-RGB)-> E85 ->(Scart-RGB)-> TV

    and when I have the TV on AV and E85 = ‘DVD’ I can’t change the (output) colours on the TV.

    When I have the TV on AV and E85 = ‘TV’ the (output) colours can be changed on the TV. The E85 however records the untouched RGB signal and when played, it then also shows the untouched RGB signal.

    I think that when you have:

    E85 Functions settings:
    AV1 Output = RGB
    AV2 Input = RGB

    and

    E85 = ‘DVD’

    you both see and record an untouched RGB signal. If you are not satisfied with this picture I guess the only way around is to change the E85 Functions settings; e.g. to change the AV1 Output to Video. This can maybe be an explanation why you experience a better picture when playing the E85 recordings on another DVD; you then see the ‘TV colours’ and not the ‘the untouched RGB colours’.

    Does the above make sense?

    I earlier said ‘I had the same problem’. I was then referring to the ‘slight dimming when pressing the Functions key problem’. That is solved when you have E85 = ‘DVD’.

    I may have something wrong with my eyes or my (12 years old) TV :laugh: , but I think I have a great picture with the above settings - RGB and 'DVD'.
     
  23. giuliopan

    giuliopan
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2004
    Messages:
    37
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    Thanks everyone for your answers.

    Unfortunately I have no equipment to try that...

    Thanks for reassuring me :)
    Please see below, I kinda found a solution and it may apply to you too.

    Thanks for your help - and what you say makes perfect sense, but unfortunately that's not my case :(

    I can change the TV colours allright, either in TV or DVD mode; what prevents you from changing them? Perhaps your TV is a Panasonic too and it's talking to the E85?

    And in my case, the colours are bleaker when I select 'DVD'.


    Here's what I found:

    I fiddled with the settings some more, and seem to have found a (perhaps I should say THE) determining factor: the bleak colours show up when I have AV2 set to 'Decoder'. If I select 'Ext', I can see no difference.

    The problem seems to be solved, but I probably set AV2 to 'Decoder' the first time because a. Couldn't understand what they meant by 'Decoder' (isn't my sat receiver one?) and b. it is much more convenient.

    In fact, by setting AV2 to 'Ext':

    1. When the timer is on, the signal does not pass thru, so I have to turn the timer off to watch satellite (very annoying, 'cause then I often forget to turn it back on and risk missing some recordings)

    2. Even if the timer is off, turning on the satellite receiver doesn't 'wake up' the TV, so I have to manually select the AV input on the TV (annoying too).

    I now very much doubt that it is a faulty machine, but I can't understand if it's a bug or what.

    If anyone wants to replicate the problem, try these settings:
    AV1 - RGB (no component, scart)
    AV2 - RGB, Decoder (scart)

    Pressing 0 + Enter switches from bleak to full colours.

    Thanks
     

Share This Page

Loading...