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Panny DVI board and progressive PAL signals?

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by jrosado, Feb 14, 2004.

  1. jrosado

    jrosado
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    Hi:

    I've heard that there were some problems with the Panasonic DVI board for 6th generation plasmas and PAL progressive signals. Since i own a DVD player with DVI-I output, i'm considering buying the DVI Board. However, if there are problems, then i will keep it conected using the VGA input.

    So, what is the status of thing now?


    Regards,

    J. Rosado
     
  2. jrosado

    jrosado
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    Hi:

    so, nobody knows anything about this? I can't belive that with so many users, there is a single user with a DVI board on is Panny!!


    Regards,
    J. Rosado
     
  3. PosiXX

    PosiXX
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    The Panasonic had a problem with some progressive scan processors, like iScan Ultra and TAG McLaren PSM192R. After some research with Panasonic and McLaren, it was due to the processors delivering a wrong signal, ie 572 lines instead of 576.
    There has been a software update for these processors that cured this problem.
    Is see no problems with your configuration, if the player outputs 576@50Hz PAL progressive.
     
  4. jrosado

    jrosado
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    Hi:

    Thanks for the info! That are great news!

    Regards,
    J. Rosado
     
  5. Lizzard

    Lizzard
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    I heard that if you use the new Iscan Ultra HD these problems won't exist, true?
     
  6. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
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    True to a degree Lizzard - the HD can send progressive video resolutions, or the native resolution of the plasma, so one would hope the DVI card will just accept 852 x 480, 1024 x 768 or 1366 x 768 (which it will definitely do from a Pixel Perfect graphics card). However we've not had a chance to test the HD with this to confirm - I reckon it'll probably work at native rate but won't work as a standard progressive scan resolution!!

    As it stands I wouldn't rely on the Panasonic DVI card to work with PAL prog scan signals from any source using a Silicon Image deinterlacing chipset (which sends 572 plus four lines of blanking!) until you've had a chance to test. The iScan Ultra, Tag, Linn, and Pio 868 all use this chipset and all have problems sending PAL based material into the Panasonic DVI card.
     
  7. Dale Adams

    Dale Adams
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    That little problem has been fixed on the iScan HD.

    - Dale Adams
     
  8. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
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    That's excellent news Dale!
     
  9. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Dale

    what about the Ultra?
     
  10. gmt steve

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    I don't think that's correct re. the Pioneer 868 Liam. Pioneer use their own I-P chipsets (unfortunately). I can also confirm that into a Panny PW5, the 868 has inferior I-P conversion than via an iScan Ultra
    (which of course does use an SI chipset).
     
  11. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
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    Yes went a bit mad there - just means another chip to the list for PAL sources not working via DVI to the Panny 6!

    (or should I say more evidence of the Panny DVI card being a pain in the...)
     
  12. PosiXX

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    As i previously mentioned it should work with the TAG / IScan Ultra because these manufacturers have brought an upgrade to there firmware which should resolve the PAL progressive mismatch with the panasonic DVI board.

    However, i have not heard of anyone who was able to confirm that it worked since. I really like to know if this is the case as i have a AV192R with PSM192R and a 50' panasonic plasma (PW6) and want to use the DVI connection..

    a problem with the 5 series DVI board prevents to use the native resolution for 50' panels (1366x768) with this board. This is fixed in the 6-series DVI board.
     
  13. genko

    genko
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    i have a panny 50 w6 and a pioneer 868 and as of yet can only get region 1 disc to work pioneer were no help any ideas ?
    Dvi board is a ty-42tm6d that i got with plasma in nov 03
     
  14. lovegroova

    lovegroova
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    I'm not sure if you guys have seen the resident expert, Gordon Fraser's, comments on the Panny using DVI.

    His view is that the Panny offers better PQ using the component inputs rather than the DVI board. It may be better to save your money by not buying the DVI board, and just connecting up the 'old fashioned' way. He believes the DVI board has been configured primarily for computer input rather than video.

    As far as I understand it, TAG have now sorted the DVD32R PSM with software version 3.85 which means that 576 lines are now output from the PSM DVI.

    However, if you insist on using DVI, the Panny is not capable of accepting a PAL prgressive input via DVI so if you use anything other than NTSC discs, it will not work.
     
  15. Dale Adams

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    Quite frankly, we've been so busy trying to get the iScan HD out the door that we haven't had time to look at new versions of the Ultra or modifications to it. It is certainly possible to fix the '572 lines over DVI' problem. I'm not positive at this point whether it can be done purely through software, or if there's also a hardware change required. I'll take a look at it as soon as I come up for air from the iScan HD development. (soon . . .)

    - Dale Adams
     
  16. Dale Adams

    Dale Adams
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    FWIW, the iScan Ultra's analog output does not have the same problem as the DVI output. It produces a full 576 active lines.

    - Dale Adams
     
  17. Lizzard

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    Ok, so safe way is to buy the component board once and for all, then you know the Panny works with PAL/NTSC progressive.
     
  18. MAW

    MAW
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    Just so, and of course you can get the ultra to put out progressive component or RGB, which you can connect to your component or VGA ports. So, Dale, development is still under way? Dare one ask for a release date straight from the horses mouth? There are many people here gasping to get their hands on it, Liam's been advertising them for about a month!
     
  19. PosiXX

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    This was exactly the problem addressed with the 'upgrade' of those progressive processors. When this upgrade is applied the progressive PAL signal should work with DVI.
    Look at the specs of the DVI blade, it doesn't accept interlaced signals, but progressive should be fine.

    @lovegroova, could you point me to the article mentioned by you? (the one from Gordon Fraser about the component blade).
    I doubt it would be better since, apart from the analog-to-digital-and-back conversion, the DVI input can produce a lot more gray shades. I would think this betters the image.

    I am using the VGA standard port on my panasonic and have a lot of 'blending' of the colors, ie if for instance fog is displayed it looks like the color depth is very low.
     
  20. genko

    genko
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    Reference the pani not working with the 868 using r2 disks, the samsung HD935 that I have works with r1 and r2 via dvi. So possibly the 868 requires a handshake from the pani. I have come to the assumption as the 868 dvi output is terminated after a few seconds. So possibly a software upgrade could be available?
     
  21. lovegroova

    lovegroova
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    PosiXX - you are right about the PAL progressive, my misunderstading now corrected :eek:

    Gordon's comment is on this thread, 3rd post down http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105251&highlight=DVI

    And, I was emailing him for advice re my DVD player purchase and he made the following comment "DVI out of TAG will not currently work at 576@50 on Pannie 6 series. I believe that Panasonic are working on a a firmware fix. My findings so far are that analogue is better to Panny anyway."

    Obviously this was before the TAG firmware fix but you get the general gist.
     
  22. genko

    genko
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    The DVI format is better than component if you have controle of the chroma,black level etc which on the 868 you have. on the samsung HD935 the DVI output is sharper and more detailed on the DVI output but crap dark low leval detail and pixalisation on grays the samsung has no veriable video parameters. I think it is due to the reference levels of certain frequency, DVI is primary for computer use but it will be defacto for video in time. HDMI is only the conector like scart not the protocal.
     
  23. lovegroova

    lovegroova
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    I think Gordon's comments relate specifically to the Panny display rather than any output device. I believe his comparisons were on the outputs from a scaler so the presumably he would have had control over things such as chroma. As most of this video processing stuff is a bit beyond me, I prefer to trust Gordon's expert eye.
     
  24. genko

    genko
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    I have a pany 50 6series a pany 42 5series and a panny 42 3series. DVD wise i have a samsung HD935 a Pioneer 868 a Pioneer 747 a Dennon 2900 i can only tell you what i see. On the 868 i can only play r1 discs via HDMI so that comparison is limated.
     
  25. lovegroova

    lovegroova
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    Have you compated the output from the 868 to the 6 series using both component and HDMI, and have you had the separate inputs properly calibrated to allow a fair comparison?
     
  26. genko

    genko
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    Yes. employing DVI Connection the colors are more vibrant and there is much more detail, any process that converts digital to analouge and back again will suffer loss and phase errors depending on frequency any technical papers will confirm this. the pany 6 was not designed to work with DVI video, sertain calibration parameters were not alowed for. The best picture componet wise is the Dennon 2900. But as i said Pioneer 868 HDMI to DVI is KING all be it R1 discs only at present.
     
  27. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    hahaha

    My comments related specifically to the scalers and sources I have used.

    I believe that technically there may be a benefit to DVI but I have yet to see an implimentation where it is better than a component RGBHV signal from a scaler.

    I do no consider an 868 to be a state of the art DVDplayer. From the brief time I've had with one it appears to be a flag reader, or have poor de-interlacing compared to SIL OR SAGE solutions. Of course, luma and chroma artifacts compared to de-interlacing artifacts...are still artifacts. You pays your money as they say!

    Gordon

    P.S. Genko....is your name Graham?.........
     
  28. genko

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    I agree the 868 is not state of art but i was simple stating that dvi is better than component as i feel some people slate what they can not make work or simple do not understand. Hay i use valve amps at home and love black plastic so not all new ideas are better but DVI is, just implementation needs work.

    why do ask is my name graham
     
  29. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Well I would like to state that so far, in my experience, DVI is worse than RGBHV.......If you think this is because I cannot make it work then fair enough..we must agree to disagree.

    I ask if your name is Graham as I have recently pointed a guy called Graham to this site. He seems to like to disagree with me often too....but I like to think we are just having a laugh....

    Gordon
     
  30. Jasonjo

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