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Panny AE300 - Running Hot a Problem?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by redtom, May 31, 2003.

  1. redtom

    redtom
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    hi gang,

    recent lurker, first time poster.

    shortly going to get off the fence and purchase a projector.
    have my eye on the panasonic ae300 but just read posts re: it running very hot.

    i'm wondering is this a possible deal breaker as no-one has had a panny ae300 for a long period of time yet (like, over a year) and we don't know yet if this "very hot" issue could cause problems down the line (like the unit melting and destroying lcd panels or something... sorry, not trying to alarm anyone here... ).

    any help appreciated,

    red
     
  2. gothmog

    gothmog
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    I wouldn't worry about it, it's designed to run at the temperatures it runs at. If something goes wrong with the cooling or the filter gums up the projector will shut itself down.

    If it really worries you can always choose to run the projector in the higher power fan mode, which reduces the internal temp buy 15-20oC, but is noisier, obviously.

    This of course does assume that Panasonic have designed it properly and the Epson panels perform like they should. Unfortunately just like any product purchase you have to make a little leap of faith when you choose..

    -- Jon
     
  3. calibos

    calibos
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    Well the general consensus is thats what killed my Ae100. ie 3200hrs in a year causing heat soak which distorted/damaged the panels in some way. As you may have read I got a refund and am now purchasing an AE300.

    This time I think I'll take a few precautions. Apparently the fan is virtually silent in eco mode so I'm hoping that running the lamp on low and the fan on high permanently will increase bulb/PJ longevity. ie because the fan is silent in eco, hopefully in high mode it will only be as loud as an AE100 in eco/low fan mode was which I can definately live with. This time the AE300 will be mounted upside down on a shelf 6ft above our heads(when seated) which will hopfully deflect fan noise away. With the AE100 we sat within 2ft of it hifi unit mounted. As I said the AE100 fan on low in that setup didn't really bother us. So if the AE300 sounds the same with the fan on High, then Happy Days.
    I've also instructed everyone that the PJ isn't to be left on, "Cause someone might go in and watch something in an hour or so." If there is a gap of more than 10 minute between users than it gets turned off. I've also brought in a portable tv and mounted in the cabinet so that the PJ doesn't have to be turned on to set the Video Timer!!
     
  4. zoolap

    zoolap
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    It's gonna sound crazy, but I wonder if we'll see anyone modding their projectors with water cooling?
     
  5. Messiah

    Messiah
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    Wow, that's almost 10 hours a day. Doubt any of mine (Projector and TV combined) ever run up more than 10 hours a month. What do you use it for? Cooking as well :)
     
  6. gothmog

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    Indeed, we can only hope that lessons were learnt from the AE100 issues...

    Guess we'll know this time next year ;)

    -- Jon
     
  7. xander

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    Don't worry about the running hot issue, just ensure that you have ample ventilation and that you regularly clean the dust filter to avoid blockage of the air path.
     
  8. redtom

    redtom
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    thanks for the replies people, feel a bit better - i imagine i'd only be using it for a movie and a gaming session a few times a week - should last me a good while, fingers crossed.
     
  9. LTJ

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    Red tom and all, hello. Yes the heat problem with the panny has concerned me for some time. I have carried out several (sort of) mods to keep the thing running cooler.
    Before I reiterate these can I say to Calibos I like the idea of running the fan at a higher speed. The only two problems with that are
    1) Higher noise (that's never concerned me though)
    2)There will be obviously a greater volume of air sucked into and through the system venting out the back. More air of course has a very nice cooling effect but at the expense of possibly more atmospheric junk ie. smoke, aerosols, dead skin and just plain muck. However I believe theres a simple way around this.

    Before I elaborate, can I just say that this issue of lowering operating temperatures around the lcd panels and optics to me seems vital. That is in preventing damage to the LCD's and prolonging life of the lamp- not just it lasting longer but to slow down the breakup of the reflective material coating the inside of the lamp. You have to remember that the heat that's generated by the lamp makes some parts of the innards of the panny a very hostile place indeed. When using the service menu, you can actually check the temperature at two points- the lcd block and the lamp itself. The temps I'm getting at present (during this present hot spell) are around 146-150 around the LCD block and 170-180 around the lamp. I believe these temps have to be in farenhieght. Phew.

    Anyways I've posted parts of this before but I'll do the whole thing again with a further (ridiculous) mod that I feel is very effective.

    1) Make sure the panny has access to plenty of air flow! Mine sits on a platform with a large cut-out below the lamp housing to allow air to circulate taking heat away from the unit.
    2) With my panny I've also placed two heat sinks courtesy of Maplins
    http://www.maplin.co.uk/
    code FL42V

    These I've superglued lengthways and at rightangles so you finish up with two heatsinks forming a neat L-shape these then fit nicely on the top and down the side of the panny over and at the side of the lamp housing area.

    I I<----LENS
    ------------ -
    I I
    I I I
    I I I<------- HEATSINKS REST ON TOP AND AT SIDE OF
    I-___ _I_ I LAMPHOUSING

    These things really do soak up the heat and disipate it into the atmosphere. so much so that the panny's plastic casing around the lamp housing is just verywarm as opposed to uncomfortably hot to the touch.
    3) As I've said fan noise has never really bothered me and if you find these ideas effective- why there's plenty of info on the net for very low noise computer fans. Now I purchased a cheap one from maplins run it from a cheap nine quid 12 v power supply. Utilising a 5inch piece of carpet cardboard tube I've fixed the motor one end and some foam sponge at other (this is the filter). Air is drawn through the sponge and filtered and then provides an air flow straight into the panny's air intake (Calibos with this arrangment you are creating a supply of filtered air that can be utilised by the panny's fan beingset at a higher level.

    Now all this things I believe help the panny run a lot cooler. People can try these things and measure the temperature objectively through the service menu.

    Now Zoolap- water cooling! I've thought of that recently with this hot spell. It came to me a hot water bottle (filled with cold water/refridgerated?) resting on top of the heatsinks/top of panny )careful not to block the small vents just in the middle to the front of the panny. Blimey the casing and heat sink get barely warm now! Obviously this seems crude and dangerouse water being near the electrics but it works a bloody treat.

    A future idea would be to put one of those picnic cooling device/packs near the air intake so that chilled air is fed to the panny's air intake. the temperature around the LCD's should be lowered further still. Anyway late now got to be up early. Please comment anyone even if you think all these ideas are crap.
     
  10. calibos

    calibos
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    LTJ,

    Do you mean Glue or Thermal paste that they use to stick Cpu heatsinks to the CPU. If you used glue I think you may find that you would get more heat transfer from the casing to the heatsink if you used proper thermal paste. Great idea though.

    I won't be able to do that in my set up though because my AE300 will be mounted upside down on a shelf. The upside of that is that it will be above eye level with only the front of the unit showing, so I could get away with all sorts of heatsinks, extraction fans and even hot water bottles without them being an eyesore.

    As for the hot water bottle idea and putting aside safety considerations :D , you say its sitting on top of the heatsinks. Surely there is minimal contact between the thin vanes of the heatsink and the hot water bottle. You would probably get more heat transfer and thus cooling effect by placing it directly on the PJ casing.

    What I would worry about especially at this time of year with all the humidity is not so much the hot water bottle or picnic freeze block thingie leaking, but humid air in your viewing room condensing on the cold surface of the hot water bottle and trickling down into the projector. Although I suppose this doesn't seem to be an issue with PC water cooling so it may not be a problem, otherwise you would need to install a de-humidifier as well!! :D
     
  11. theritz

    theritz
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    The heatsink guy returns !

    First time poster, eh ? There must be a lapse in the Forum Space-Time continuum, so have a look at page 61 of Timh's Ae100 thread here -


    Just for the record, this......

    is just wrong. The numbers in the service menu for Temp1 and Temp2 are index numbers, which start at 200 and decrease as the temperature rises. This was established ages ago on this forum by Kramer. Phew indeed.



    What you do to your projector is, of course, your own business, but I think you describe it well yourself.......

    ........... a heatsink glued to the casing might make the casing cooler, but it won't change the temperature of the bulb..........

    As for force feeding air to the projector, unless you balance the intake and output fans in terms of throughput, you'll likely put them under stress - the output fan won't be able to ecvacuate the air going into the projector, more hot air inside the projector..... not a good idea, imo.

    The water bottle/picnic cooler notions seem crazy to me - the idea that anyone would actually put a rubber bottle full of water on a projector that their alter ego LJT fussed and worried over is bonkers. The idea that cold air off a frozen block (lots of water vapour to feed into a projector is also bonkers - and both seem dangerous as well.

    Heat soak probs are best avoided by:

    Regular filter cleaning.

    Run the lamp low and the fan on high.

    Don't run the PJ for 10/12 hours on the trot (or leave it on in case someone wants to watch something in an hour's time - Keith, Really !!!!!)

    Don't smoke in the same room as the projector.


    Recent accounts of problems with heat damage to PJs have had high run-times and extended running as a common trait.


    However, if Heath Robinson affairs make you feel better, (any chance of a picture of your PJ complete with heatsinks and cardboard tube/fan/foam ? Good for a giggle if nothing else) then that's your choice. But for ****'s sake don't go advising people to put bottles of water on top of their PJs, or feed them water-laden air.


    Sean G.
     
  12. calibos

    calibos
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    Sorry Daddy!! :D :D
     
  13. theritz

    theritz
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    That's alright, son, Just hurry along that AE300, will you, Kramer, Vex and I wat to come and have a good gawk at it........:D

    Saw your second saga with Per...........Sheeeesh....... hope you get a result there also....


    See ya,

    Sean.
     
  14. Kramer

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    Aye, a good thread right enough but not even near Comer's infamous classic "I flooded my PC" thread.

    Keep 'em coming lads - always enjoy a good laugh me

    :rotfl:
     
  15. LTJ

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    Well I tried rejoining last night after seeing this thread. It wasn't a case of using an alter ego as Sean pointed out. It's just that the first time I joined I made a mistake wth my initials. Still the same e-mail address I've nothing to hide.

    Now to the points made.
    1) Do not !!!! glue the heat sinks to the casing! It would probably be more effective but would damage the pj when taken off.

    2) Anything that removes heat away from the PJ surely has to be benificial? If heat is taken away it has to cool the unit pure physics my dear boy. When we talk of "heath robinsonism" of course it is.

    3) It's also fair comment that poor placement of the pj , hot weather and atmospheric pollutants will have their say in the efficiency/performance and life expectancy.

    4) Of course the hot/cold bottle can be placed directly on top no need for heat sinks- but I still feel they are more efficient at removing heat and then through the medium of water.

    5) I do these things at my own risk. To suggest that someone as daft as me can influence others is rediculous.


    Finally. I come in peace.
     
  16. LTJ

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    Disaster! Absolute disaster.
    I was watching the super-bit version of "Water World" earlier this evening, and I was just thinking how magnificent the image quality was to behold. As I marveled, I thought blimey that water looks so realistic - you could almost reach out and touch it, and the BANG the Panny blew up!. My bloody hot/cold water bottle had leaked all over the panny!

    What do I do now ( I'll say this though, now it's not working it's running very cool.)
     
  17. LTJ

    LTJ
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    Look I've just been allowed back on! Cut me a little slack.

    Just a couple of more comments on cooling technics.

    Right. The dew-point of the atmosphere is much lower in cold weather(it can't hold water vapor. Hence the condensation problems that manifest them self's on a cold winters day i.e. when the relative warm air inside a building, meets the cold surfaces of e.g. single layered glass. At that point the water that is now a gas in the atmosphere condenses back to water!.
    So in the summer wich is the time you actually want to help your PJ along, the warm air holds far more moisture.
    In fact if this warm air meets something very cold the water changes from a gas into a liquid state and has no chance whatsover of getting into the PJ!

    Now when you get equatorial humidty where the atmosphere is absolutley loaded with moisture that's when perversly water would be literally sucked into the machine.

    So cold air dry and warm air wet.
     
  18. theritz

    theritz
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    Editted by me to remove a grumpy post...................


    Sean G.
     
  19. LTJ

    LTJ
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    I'm glad to see the old adage " forgive and forget" is held so dearly by your good self now.
     

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