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Panny 6 VS. Pioneer 4

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by YellowCows, Oct 15, 2003.

  1. YellowCows

    YellowCows
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    I am finally getting serious about taking the Plasma plunge after years of salivating over HD displays I've seen on visits to the States.

    Finally it seems we will be seeing models from two Plasma leaders in the UK that are HD-ready, Digital-ready (DVI for Panny, HDMI for Pioneer), have decent brightness and contrast, and 1 billion+ colours.

    It seems the Panasonic TH-50PHD6 (or is it PHW6?? Is there a difference?) and Pioneer 504HDE are the serious contenders for anyone in the market to buy a 50"er, which I hope to be soon (still saving)- but which of these should I go for? Pioneer has connectivity on its side, but then I don't have (and won't be getting) the new HDMI-capable Pioneer DVD players any time soon. Panasonic has the high contrast (which really matters), but then Pioneer displays have always outclassed Panasonic when it comes to solarisation. The Panny also, at least on paper, has the edge in number of pixels - 1366x768 vs. 1280x768.

    Can somebody help shed some light on the pros and cons? Anyone with first-hand experience of both the panels? Any comments would be MUCH appreciaited.

    Moory:D
     
  2. joys_R_us

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    You did your homework regarding numbers. Now it is time for EYEBALL INSPECTION. At the end of the day all these numbers are meaningless unless the picture quality can match them.

    You should go and see them BY YOURSELF. The problem will be to find displays with a decent connection and set-up.

    Maybe (in the 50" class) you should also look at the Fuji.

    Good luck.
     
  3. YellowCows

    YellowCows
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    Thanks, joys,

    But, I certainly was not going to make a purchase before I saw them BY MYSELF (as you kindly put it) first. However, I couldn't find either displayed properly in any store nearby - and the Pio isn't being released for another month.

    I started this thread hoping someone who has seen them, or at least has an informed opinion one way or the other, would share their views.

    I will take your advice and take a look at Fuji - was't too impressed with their panels in the past, but wouldn't hurt to check out the new.

    Many thanks again to all who will impart any info/opinion (sans patronising comments, please)...

    p.s. To anyone still in the dark, CAPITALS are read as SHOUTING in forums, not emphasis - use HTML code instead, it's more polite and gets the point across better
     
  4. SimonO

    SimonO
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    That lesson is MUCH appreciated..!
     
  5. nathan_silly

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    DON'T SHOUT "MUCH" AT ME!!!:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

    ARRRRGGGGHHHHHHH!!!



    :rotfl:
     
  6. YellowCows

    YellowCows
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    Thank you all very MUCH for the hilarity, really, very witty...not to mention ORIGINAL....:rolleyes:

    BACK to the SUBJECT...

    Seriously, some people elsewhere on the forum have said that they have seen these panels in action. I know it's early days as these are yet to be 'hard' launched, but again, any input would be great:)
     
  7. KBDVD

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    Hi Yellow, :hiya:

    I too would be interested in "knowledgeable" opinions from any who have seen both screens in anger.

    If it's worth anything, I compared the Panny 5 to the Pioneer 3 first hand & would have to say that the increased "depth" of image obtained on the Panny courtesy of it's improved contrast ratio far outweighed any theoretical "colour" advantage that the Pioneer was supposed to have. ........... I bought a Panny and never regretted it in use.

    Unfortunately it developed a fault after 3 months use and I was offered a full refund or an exchange by it's supplier, Let's Go Digital ........ kudos to them! I decided on the refund and have waited the arrival of the 6 series with it's improved future proofed connectivity ever since.

    For my eyes and viewing preference, I want a "natural" palette of colours available that as far as is possible "replicate real life hues", ie pale skin tones etc, but that are still capable of producing vibrant deep areas of solid colour for Animation and CGI.

    Colour capability is not the full story however and that "real life" look is simply not obtainable without serious depth of image being available courtesy of a wide contrast range.

    I know from experience that "perfect to my taste" colours could be obtained on the Panny 5, and that it did this whilst it also possessed "best in class" three dimensional depth of image with it's deep crt like blacks that the Pioneer couldn't match! Forget the "quoted" figures as they are misleading at best, but there was no escaping the Panny's superiority in this regard in real terms in the Panny 5 v Pioneer 3 head to head.

    In an attempt to provide additional descriptive definition to my "eye taste" I will add at this point that I have yet to see a 100hz crt set from any manufacturer that has not exhibited a "through gauze" processed look to my mind. My trusty 50hz Sony KV-S 3432 U 34" 4:3 ratio Super Trinitron TV that is now nine years old has a picture that, geometry aside, is still to be beaten. I guess that this must also mean that I have high tolerence to "flicker" as I never see it, on crt's or Plasma's ....... not that I'm complaining mind! ;)

    So for me at least the decision is probably gonna be an easy one.
    The new Pioneers would have to have "better" blacks than the Panny in addition to being able to "match" it's colours, and this doesn't sound like it is going to be the case.

    The jury is still out but for my taste at least, the Panny 6 remains the favourite for my money.

    I also subscribe to the "minimalist is best" view on bezels! :smashin:

    I originaly owned a couple of 42" NEC panels with wide charcoal bezels before my Panny 5 model with it's slim silver variety, and would have to say that when off, the 50" Panny was much "LESS" intrusive and imposing in my living room than the 42" NEC's! :eek:

    I would expect the new wider black bezel on the Pioneer 4's to have the opposite effect, especially with it's new flush styling! Personaly I prefer the understated look of the Panny to the in your face look of the Pioneer, and I know a fair few wives that would probably agree with me! :) So the new Pioneer wil probably be a harder sell for "her indoors!" :laugh:

    In use, cause I always view in a darkened environment, the colour/width of the bezel was entirely irrelevent as to all intents and purposes neither can be seen. I saw the silver bezel on my Panny produce no additional reflections in use.

    Anyway, for what it's worth, those are my views and many will "see" (pun intended) it differently! ;)

    Best Regards,
    KBDVD.
     
  8. YellowCows

    YellowCows
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    Thank you so much, KB,:clap:

    Talk about about 'informative'! It seems from your reply that we have similar taste - I agree 100% that good contrast makes the picture three dimensional, and you've certainly confirmed my suspicion that a Panasonic panel would be more to my liking.

    I guess having only had long-term experience of CRT's, I was hesitant about whether to weigh my decision so heavily on how CRT-like a panel would be, or consider more PDP-specific points such as solarisation, scaling and so on.

    I'm glad to have the input of someone with a similar 'eye' to mine. I have seen the many panels in many showrooms that were very 'samey', and few of them could be described as having a 'natural' picture - granted, the source material most shops use isn't ideal - but it's good to get the opinion of an owner of a Panny panel.

    I think, barring any surprises come audition time, my mind is already made.

    Cheers M8!!;)
     
  9. RossC

    RossC
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    " I think, barring any surprises come audition time, my mind is already made. "

    Keep an open mind! I found that different things show up in live demos than you might not be expect - it's better to be looking at each objectively rather than have a bias before you start and find you're looking at one product more favourably than the other without realising it...
     
  10. YellowCows

    YellowCows
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    Good point, Ross....hmmm.....

    I do seem to be jumping the gun a bit. I don't usually do that so far ahead of a major purchase, but I'm just so impatient to get my hands on one...and high contrast is No.1 in my criteria

    I guess I'll have to wait and see - the Pioneer panels are said to have improved their contrast by 20% over the 3rd generation models, and though the Panny still lists a contrast level 3 times higher, I know one should never trust the numbers sight-unseen.

    But when you're right, you're right, Ross..Thanks
     
  11. gandley

    gandley
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    It may be of interest to some but panasonic use a different systen when calculating contrast than other manufactures. in realty
    3000:1 is about 1000-1100:1 and 4000:1 is like 1200:1

    I cant remember where but there is an american website that has all this plasma faq on (actually more than 1 so i think there on the ball abit more over there).

    These figures are in direct comparison to pioneer screens
     
  12. Costas

    Costas
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    Gandley,

    You are ABSOLUTELY right... I wanted to put the same comment but also not remembered where I have seen it.

    I was last week at Pioneer's facility in Germany (I am involved with semiconductor sales) and I was lucky enought to see the new 434 and 504. It is my opinion, but I believe these sets will easily beat Panasonic series 6. ... My 9 month immaculate 433 MUST go on sale! Ha! I came back and ordered a 434...!
     
  13. gandley

    gandley
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    Thanks mate, i am a genious.!


    Glad you saw the new screens ive had a 503 for a while and its dvd pic was always better than my panny (except for very dark scenes) but the panny was better at sky and tv.

    how would u rate the new 504 434 compared to the old models.
    is the contrast now as good as i hear
     
  14. Costas

    Costas
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    I saw the units with a variety of inputs. The PDP-434/504HDE does offer a significant improvement of picture quality from all sources in comparison to the 433/503. This is mainly due to media box and the processing within (all digital). The increase of both the brightness and contrast ratios also makes slight improvements.
     
  15. Jasonjo

    Jasonjo
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    If you can wait, Gordon from Covergent AV is planning to get a 434 or 504 at his Event II meeting in November...

    Quite a few forum members appear to be going to this, so it should be a good chance to compare the Pioneer 4's against the Panny 6 SD & HD's when using good sources and properly calibrated displays...I would imagine quite a few attendees will be able to pass on their findings after this meet...(inc me ;))

    JJ
     
  16. gandley

    gandley
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    Thanks both, the pioneers are lookin up all the time
     
  17. YellowCows

    YellowCows
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    What about the resolution? I know the Panny is only slightly ahead of the Pioneer in terms of pixels, but I would've thought it would give it some sort of edge...or am i being misled by the tech specs again:confused:
     
  18. Matravers

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    Definately keep an open mind when you have your demo, but, i would also say that expect performance to be about 10% better when you get it home.

    I know for me i completely exhausted viewing the panny and pioneer among others everywhere i could, including taking my own kit and stuff to the shop.

    But, no matter how long you play you will always find something a little bit niggly in the shops. And from my experience when i got it home in the cold light of day and calmly got to play through all pic settings etc found that 99% of my niggles that i was accepting anyway are gone.

    Even though it may take a week......for example i got my panny 6 about a fortnight ago and have only just done some viewing using 2:5 pull down or whatever it is, and it appears to get rid of a lot of artifacting on some bad sources. Don't know why, don't know if it should but it does.

    The moral being, that if you are happy enough in the shop you will get even happier at home!!!!!!

    And the panny 6 is Superb!!!!!!!!!!! I think better than pio, only cos the pioneer's colours seem to unreal....lovely and crisp but just unreal (incl new pio)
     
  19. gandley

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    interesting, i think the complete opposite.

    i use my panny for ordinary tv. but for dvd used the pioneer as it was so much better.esp with film such as ice age, toy story, monsters inc they realy took on a 3D feel i did consider pany6 but its a let down and not enough of an advancement over current model.
    still it does show that personal taste is everything. same with preference with music and people prefered cd deck amp etc.

    As long as u get home and think u got the best, thats what counts
     

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