Panasonic VT20 Owners blur & pan shot issues - part 2

wega3k

Active Member
I'm surprised and a bit disappointed that you feel that way, wega, because I was looking to change my PZ80 for a VT20 in the near future and in every instance I have seen the VT20 it has looked superior to my PZ80.

The VT is deeply impressive in many ways. Once you start to notice the problems though, they become so distracting. It really is extremely frustrating. :(
 

wega3k

Active Member
I have a replacement set arriving on Saturday with an agreement that the people who deliver / install it will stay whilst I test it and if I experience the same issues with it they will take both sets back with them for a refund.
 

panman40

Distinguished Member
I have a replacement set arriving on Saturday with an agreement that the people who deliver / install it will stay whilst I test it and if I experience the same issues with it they will take both sets back with them for a refund.

Thats a great offer on thier part:smashin:, I hope its better but i fear it wont be:(, like you say stunning pic but once you notice the issues its :thumbsdow.
Good luck :thumbsup:
 

stanga

Well-known Member
I've just been watching the three year old PZ70 I gave to my parents when I got the VT20. God I want it back. The motion is SO much better than the VT20. It's so much more relaxing to watch without the flickering and motion banding / ghosting you get on the VT20. Also, whilst the PZ70 fans are slightly louder, there is hardly any buzz and it's a constant frequency, unlike the intrusive, annoying variable screeching of the VT20. The only thing the VT20 does better than the PZ70 in 2D is contrast level / blacks, which are admittedly gorgeous on the VT.

I'm contacting the Panasonic store again on Monday. I predict they're going to be utterly unhelpful, so I'll be straight on to my VISA issuer afterward.

Honestly, mine never looked as bad as you are describing. I never noticed it buzzing, it didn't flicker to my eyes and the picture was beautifully uniform.

Unfortunately, when watching sport it had a few artefacts I couldn't live with. But most people I showed it to had a hard time seeing them unless I pointed it out.

To me it sounds like you have a faulty set - especially the way you describe it as 'screeching'.

BTW, is yours from an early batch? 025**
 

micks_address

Well-known Member
anyones VT20 ever auto shut down and reboot? happened twice on mine.. i disabled viera link just in case that might be causing it..
 

Craig uk

Well-known Member
Honestly, mine never looked as bad as you are describing. I never noticed it buzzing, it didn't flicker to my eyes and the picture was beautifully uniform.

Unfortunately, when watching sport it had a few artefacts I couldn't live with. But most people I showed it to had a hard time seeing them unless I pointed it out.

To me it sounds like you have a faulty set - especially the way you describe it as 'screeching'.

BTW, is yours from an early batch? 025**

The only real issue I have with my VT is the motion artefacts...most noticeable with footie. Although I think if you look hard enough it can be seen with all material, 24p bluray included.

Thing is we all report from our own experience, IMO some people won't spot what others do, it doesn't matter how enthusiastic you are some people just happen to be more sensitive than others with different issues.

I consider myself to be pretty fussy, the poor motion with footie is a real disapointment and glaringly obvious to me, but others I know who share a similar level of interest don't have a problem with it. I'm fortunate to have a Kuro for reference, can't fault the Kuro in any way but I do see signs of the same motion problem happening with 24p on the VT20. Its much more subtle than the artefacts visible with 50hz, footie being the best example by far, but IMO its always happening to some extent.

As mentioned many times on here it gets confusing (and frustrating at times) when some owners report not having the problem with their particular set, or commenting that their's 'isn't as bad as that' which gives the impression that others have got a faulty set from a faulty batch, personally I don't believe that. I know we are all on here trying to help one another but you got to ask yourself what is more logical, faulty batches in production or a universal fault in devolpment? If it was just one or two comments then I would possibly agree yes they might be from a faulty batch but considering the amount of reports on here and seeing what I've seen with my own eyes I would think the latter is more likely. I could be wrong but I have tested more than I can remember now and all seem to share the problem with motion artefacts, although saying that........

The other major problem with this years range (for me anyway) is floating blacks. Originally I was of the same opinion regarding this, all were the same but since having my VT20 for 3 weeks now I have changed my mind. Problem being when I had my V20 it floated blacks frequently, with pretty much every 2.35 film it was noticeable to some degree. Now when I tested as many as possible a few months back (V20/VT20/G20 etc) I was using The Dark Knight on bluray just using the opening credits scene. Every tv I tested exhibited floating blacks with that. And when I got my Vt it was the first thing I tested, and sure enough it was there. Now after having the set at home for 3 weeks and watch plenty of films (2.35 included) I have not seen them once...I have been looking, for the first week I kept thinking its gonna happen any time soon... but it never did. Its got to the point now where I don't even think about it anymore, I'm 99% confident that its not going to happen. But for some reason that opening scene on TDK triggered it off. So I guess now I think that all those tv's I tested might not have had a serious floating black issue as I based my opinion purely with TDK test.

I can't explain why this is, there must surely be some major difference in gamma regulation from panel to panel or something to do with contrast values which is causing some units to fluctuate blacks more than others:confused:

Its all very confusing indeed, worst thing is its only us real enthusiasts who are noticing this and being let down. It was highly unlikley Panasonic were ever going to address these issues this year but next year they really do need to prevent having these fundamental problems with their range, especially on the flagship.
 
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grahamtriggs

Active Member
I'm fortunate to have a Kuro for reference, can't fault the Kuro in any way but I do see signs of the same motion problem happening with 24p on the VT20. Its much more subtle than the artefacts visible with 50hz, footie being the best example by far, but IMO its always happening to some extent.

It's certainly not true of every problem seen on the Panasonic, but the source material does not always have perfect motion (particularly 24p and PAL shot at 25 frames per second).

Seeing these problems on a Kuro as well strongly indicates that the problem is in the source material. I still assert that because the Panasonic's have such fast response / discharge times, it makes problems in the source more visible than other panels - not for doing things badly, but for doing them well.

That doesn't excuse the false contouring problems that exist with 50hz material though, which really need to be fixed.
 

maxflinn

Novice Member
It's certainly not true of every problem seen on the Panasonic, but the source material does not always have perfect motion (particularly 24p and PAL shot at 25 frames per second).

Seeing these problems on a Kuro as well strongly indicates that the problem is in the source material. I still assert that because the Panasonic's have such fast response / discharge times, it makes problems in the source more visible than other panels - not for doing things badly, but for doing them well.

That doesn't excuse the false contouring problems that exist with 50hz material though, which really need to be fixed.

this motion issue with 50hz material is not in the source, i had two v20's , both of them had trouble with motion with a 50hz source, i now have an lg50pk350 and its perfect with 50hz material, the panas are the problem not the source..
 

mikerblade

Member
@CraigUK

Just to add to your confusion about floating blacks:D

I could never get my 50V20 to show them, there was a very slight fluctuation at the start of TDK but other than that I never saw them & like yourself I threw everything I could find at the panel.

Polarization, major greyscale problems & 50Hz/24Hz issues I did have in spades so it all balances out :)

Still waiting for the new LG review but it looks like the old 40" Sony may have to survive until well into next year.
 

micks_address

Well-known Member
What hifi are getting an update briefing from Panasonic on Friday re motion issues. Anyone got word back here yet?
 

grahamtriggs

Active Member
this motion issue with 50hz material is not in the source, i had two v20's , both of them had trouble with motion with a 50hz source, i now have an lg50pk350 and its perfect with 50hz material, the panas are the problem not the source..

Sorry, but I did acknowledge that there are real, genuine problems with the Panasonic on 50hz motion - just that doesn't mean all reported issues are occurring in the set. Only some may be.
 

$$Buck-Naked$$

Active Member
Sorry, but I did acknowledge that there are real, genuine problems with the Panasonic on 50hz motion - just that doesn't mean all reported issues are occurring in the set. Only some may be.

Well there's something terribly wrong with this whole generation. Panasonic needs to issue a response or something. This is getting crazy. They told Phil they would give an explanation but till now nothing except silence.
 

tele1962

Distinguished Member
According to the thread over at What Hi-fi, Panasonic will be briefing them this Friday.

Been in touch myself today and i am waiting for some feedback. But i cant wait to hear what they have to say to WHF.:rolleyes:

Operating within spec etc.:facepalm:

Can you lads provide a link to this info please.
 
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$$Buck-Naked$$

Active Member
Been in touch myself today and i am waiting for some feedback. But i cant wait to hear what they have to say to WHF.:rolleyes:

Operating within spec etc.:facepalm:

Can you lads provide a link to this info please.

If they say that, then their spec is subpar crap worse than the cheapest dog**** available for premium prices.
 
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maxflinn

Novice Member
Sorry, but I did acknowledge that there are real, genuine problems with the Panasonic on 50hz motion - just that doesn't mean all reported issues are occurring in the set. Only some may be.
sure, maybe the source is the problem on occassion, i never noticed similar motion problems on my g10 or pk350 to those that plagued my two v20's though, perhaps they were there, but not so exagerated? either way, they spoiled my enjoyment of the v20, which is a real shame because otherwise it was brilliant..
 

panman40

Distinguished Member
Been in touch myself today and i am waiting for some feedback. But i cant wait to hear what they have to say to WHF.:rolleyes:

Operating within spec etc.:facepalm:

Can you lads provide a link to this info please.

Boy o Boy, i can't wait to hear what they say either :devil:,:)
 

paulr2006

Distinguished Member
Well so much for me singing the praises of my VT20, today it's decided to go belly up! turn it on & it repeatedly turns on & then off after a few seconds, no fault code green light stays on & only flashes as it starts back up again :( time to contact Panny me thinks :thumbsdow
 

tele1962

Distinguished Member
Well so much for me singing the praises of my VT20, today it's decided to go belly up! turn it on & it repeatedly turns on & then off after a few seconds, no fault code green light stays on & only flashes as it starts back up again :( time to contact Panny me thinks :thumbsdow

Paul how unlucky can you get mate.:(:thumbsdow
 

paulr2006

Distinguished Member
Paul how unlucky can you get mate.:(:thumbsdow

Hmmm........might just have been a gremlin (Software bug) unplugged it from the mains for a couple of minutes. Then it did not appear to want to switch on (red light stayed on for about half a minute) then sprang into life & so far so good :rolleyes: (Don't want to speak too soon but might be ok) :)
 

panman40

Distinguished Member
Well so much for me singing the praises of my VT20, today it's decided to go belly up! turn it on & it repeatedly turns on & then off after a few seconds, no fault code green light stays on & only flashes as it starts back up again :( time to contact Panny me thinks :thumbsdow

You have to be joshing Paul surely :eek:, and you were really happy with it too :(, Just goes to show no tv is totally reliable :thumbsdow, atleast you have the warranty tho:),
 

paulr2006

Distinguished Member
You have to be joshing Paul surely :eek:, and you were really happy with it too :(, Just goes to show no tv is totally reliable :thumbsdow, atleast you have the warranty tho:),

I did speak too soon just gone on/off again twice :mad:
 

panman40

Distinguished Member
Hmmm........might just have been a gremlin (Software bug) unplugged it from the mains for a couple of minutes. Then it did not appear to want to switch on (red light stayed on for about half a minute) then sprang into life & so far so good :rolleyes: (Don't want to speak too soon but might be ok) :)

Phew:eek:, thats what you get for leaving it in standby 24/7 ;):laugh::laugh:
 

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