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panasonic vs the sony vpl

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by neo-uk, Feb 8, 2002.

  1. neo-uk

    neo-uk
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    Hi all Well i had a look at the panny at newcastle global HI-FI

    heres what i think I have been looking for the NEXT step projector for some time now its been 3 years, 3 years you say
    yes 3 years this becasue until now theres nothing that has been much inproved on at the £2000 to £3000 range projector until now.

    I have looked at around about 17 projectors over the 3 years because my m8 bought one 3 years ago i loved it but it was crap for black it was like 600ansi and 200 contrast so i held back it was lcd too a hitachi.

    over the years i have found all the pictures to be the same quality
    but the only diffrence was the black level some where crap some where ok but the picture never seemed to look much diffrent on each projector this might be becasue thay all use the same panel ??? or the same type of scaler i dont know but what i do know only the blacks between them looked diffrent.

    now i have looked at the panny and i think that the picture is not that good at all yes it is the first 16.9 projector for £1500 but the picture is realy crap one of the worst pictures i have seen the picture sames messy no real good colour seems so mudeld the sharpnes is not there at all alot of background noise on the picture very pixely.

    The picture do`s not jump out at you at all i felt like i was watching a 5 year old projector it was rwealy nasty i tried all inputs diffrent films diffrent setting but what a **** picture theres no other word to describe it and there was also a hugh bright dead blue stuck pixel off.

    The only projector that has inproved on the picture, the scaler and sharpnes is the sony VPL for £2000 it has a tremendus picture the colours are sharp vibrant and theres nothing of noise it handles the picture exellent its the only projector in the past 3 years that the picture has inproved on at this price

    I played with the pany for a hour and hated it along side the sanyo plv 30 which has the most stand out screen door effect i have ever seen on any projector my m8 has it on his hitachi but only on bright white backgrounds but on the sanyo plv30 its all over the shop in faces and on everything its so crap as i said i played with the panny for a hour and hated the picture quality then pluged the sony vpl in and what a diffrence if you want to demo a panny do so but then demo a sony after it and you will see what i mean dont get me wroung its not a slaging off match but i have looked at alot of projectors and i would say the sony vpl is the best projector at this price rang the only projector that would beat it woul be the £4000 16.9 tosh and the sony vh10 and vh11 at £5000

    But do try the panny then the sony vlp or vise verser and you will know which is the better projector

    oh the only problem with the sony is its desktop only dame sony
    but i am making a reses for it in my wall

    also i hat this hassle about plug this in and try your pc and or get this £200 quid add on to makt the picture better or do this or do that what the hell look if your going to pay £2000 for a projector or there abouts i would just want totkae it out the box and use it if you have to **** about with this or that like people are saying plug it into your pc and it will amke a better picture i use my pc for games and surfing and pc stuff ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh use a dvd player if the piture is **** on a dvd player dont bye it never mind the add ons and try this and **** about blooody hell

    hope this helps

    sony a much better projector than the panny sorry

    byeeeeeeeeeeee
     
  2. calibos

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    Timh, Richard, brad123 etc. Have you all been lying to the rest of
    us about the panasonic........or is neo-uk trying to justify his purchase of the sony. Is he right or did he purchase the Sony because it was cuter than the panny?? Of course maybe thats what you guys are doing. I'll know which it is myself in about a week....cant wait!!:D
     
  3. neo-uk

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    @ calibos i dont have the sony hs1 sorry for calling it the vpl but i thought it was oppsssssssss

    but i will be getting one in two weeks when my hole on the wall is done or if a new sanyo comes out but i dont think there will be a new sanyo for a few months yet

    neo
     
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    This guy seems to know what hes talking about. I would like to see a fair comparison between the Sony VPL1 and Panny and Hitachi.

    A lot of people on this board seem to have gone mad and splashed out on a panny projector without seeing it for themselves.

    Reading between the lines, I would say that the people on this board that have brought it dont think its great, just okay. And remember, saying you made a bad desicion is hard to do (at £1500) for most people.

    And that comprehensive blind test, it came almost bottom!

    So come on guys, how about some honest comparisons between these (more) affordable projectors.

    El :p
     
  5. Punce

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    I think I'll put my credit card back in my wallet for the time being. Funny, every thread I read was "ohhh, my Panny is great, wow I love the picture, it looks just as good as my expensive this and my bulky that!". But after reading this thread, it's hung a massive doubt above my head.

    I think I'll wait until more testing has done. If I'm gonna part with a good part of £2,000, it's gotta be the Dogs Testes, or at least the best for my money.

    Good points brought out in this thread... cheers!

    I can't find anywhere near me to demo projectors, so your words carry a huge weight for me - so c'mon guys, be totally honest, and don't mislead the blind.
     
  6. Paul O Hale

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    The Panasonic is what it is!, an entry level widescreen projector, those that accept that will get good value for their money.

    What it certainly isn't though is an all singing all dancing feature laden high definition projector to compete with the Sharps, Sonys or Sanyos, you really do get what you pay for!.

    A demo of this projector before purchase is recommended
     
  7. brad123

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    Good post, exactly my thoughts. This is my first projector and im more then happy with it, but those experieced pj owners wont be satisfied with it no doubt as there used to higher standard pj's. Im more then happy with it and will keep if for 2-3 years then upgrade to an all singing all dancing pj as by then the choice and pj market willbe very competitive with higher standards and lower prices.

    Put it this way, ive hone from a 32 inch widescreen to a 8 foot wide image!!!!!!!!!!!!! with still a very goopd and clear picture quality, obviously you wont get the image quality like watching a DVD film on a 14 inch portable TV, you will lose some image qualioty but it still looks better then my tv image when i watch dvd films on an 8 foot wide picture size.
     
  8. richard plumb

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    sorry, but I completely disagree with Neo's post.

    The panasonic has some noise in 'normal' mode, but in 'cinema' mode it has almost none. I tried with the menus on my DVD player - solid blue background and the difference between the two modes is very noticeable.

    I also thought the Sony had a much more noisy picture, and more noticeable line structure - I didn't notice individual pixels, just the gaps between the scanlines (kind of like when I watch a non-anamorphic NTSC disc in 'zoom' mode on my TV).

    Simply put, the Sony made my eyes hurt and the panny didn't.

    (as for the dead pixel - demo before you buy to check. It can happen to the Sony just as well as other LCDs)

    his points about 'buy this, buy that' are perhaps justified and a result of us getting carried away by Li On. I like the image fine from an interlaced S-video source. so you don't *have* to buy anything. In fact, the Sony is worse in this respect if you want component or VGA inputs, you do have to buy an extra box.
    I know which I'm buying, but I've always said you should really take a look at all of the contenders yourselves, as you need to understand what you will get for that price. You aren't getting a £6000 image, but you are getting a *really* nice picture for the price.

    All in my humble opinion of course.
     
  9. Punce

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    Good point Mr. Plumb :)

    All I need to do now is see one working to make my mind up... but WHERE??

    I live in North Wales (no hope there!) but I travel to Birmingham most weekends (I'm actually there now).

    I called a couple of Panasonic projector dealers in this region, but they said: "we can order one for you, but I recommend that you go for this £4,200 projector, as everything below it are just plain nasty!" I didn't bother to continue the conversation.

    So I REALLY want to see one working before I take the plunge. Does anyone know where?

    Maybe there's an empathetic owner out there, that lives between Birmingham and North Wales! ;)

    Cheers :p

    Punce
     
  10. Retronana

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    Well ...both myself and General Skanky have spent a bit of time at System Sounds in Sudbury(Suffolk) today.
    The testing condition were not ideal, but we were able to demo both the Sony and Panasonic PJ's:cool:
    Whilst I'll leave GS to post his thoughts on these two nice bits of kit, I came to the following conclutions:

    1.Both PJ's can be described as "good value for money" IMHO.
    2.The Sony has a more "Cinema" style of picture.
    3.The Sony seemed to suffer from a bit of shimmer on some scenes.
    4.The blacks looked better on the Sony....but we only saw the Panasonic on its bulb setting.
    5.The Panasonic whilst not the most exciting picture wise of the two...felt safer:rolleyes: ,In that I think the Sony seems to try and achive more than it is able, the Panasonic seems to have a more balance picture.

    I will be ordering the Panasonic for myself, the Sony was nice...but IMHO took too many risks with the picture.

    I hope this doesn't sound too silly...just my own I thoughts
     
  11. Anim

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    Panasonic is cheaper, has 16:9 wide screen and can be ceiling mounted are also bonuses and its very very quiet.

    Anim

    PS. glad they still had one to view :)
     
  12. General Skanky

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    Ok. We're going to buy the Panasonic.
    Several reasons.

    1. Price.
    2. Value for money.
    3. Lamp lasts 5000 hrs and only costs £140.
    4. No screen door from what either me or Mrs. Skanky could see. And we were very close to the pic.
    5. We viewed it with factory presets with a lot of ambient light and it was very good. It can only get better in my room.
    6. Colour, brightness etc were all very acceptable.
    7. Gamma, if you want to call it that, ie, detail was very good.
    8. Aspect ratios for what we want were good.
    9. With an analogue terrestial input it looked fine via composite.
    10. Overall the pic was great for the price.

    The Sony wasn't bad at ll. I had the impression from others that it wasn't very good, but I thought it was quite good.
    If it came down to which to buy, if sony is your thing then go for it. It was different in its functions, but the pic was comparable to the Panasonic.

    At the end of the day, the Panasonic does all we want for a good price, from a local dealer. Big screen pics will finally come to my home.:D

    The advice from Tim etc has been spot on. Buy it with confidence. If you want better performance, prepare to pay for it.

    System sound get some in on Tuesday-ish, so I hope to get mine in the middle of next week.

    Now, who can explain all the leads I need again...?:D :rolleyes:
     
  13. Punce

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    Excellent news! Thanks for telling us all. I might even get one without giving it a demo (as I can't find anywhere :mad: )

    Did you haggle for a better price?
     
  14. General Skanky

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    No haggling this time. They are very good as I'm getting 9 months 0% interest to pay for it. Suits me as it means I can actually afford to buy a projector, which otherwise I may not have been able to. Also, when I go to buy the projector, they'll set it up quickly for me to check for pixels. So fair is fair in this instance.

    Anyone living in East Anglia would be well advised to check out System Sound as they seem a fair bunch.
     
  15. Timh

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    Come on guy's if you want a floor heater, buy the Sony, if you want a good budget 16:9 projector and cheap to run, go for the Panasonic.
    I have seen the HS1 going in componant from the latest sony player the 900 model, it did have a good picture, but and a big but! the vertical scan lines are far to obvious to me.
    In my initial review I did point out you could, on the odd occasion see faint vertical lines and the chicken wire effect.
    But from my pc there is no chicken wire, but some faint vertical lines which I would put down to my vreative dvd decoder card.
    I do want to try wide480 for the full resolutiuon of the PJ but powerstrip will not work on my pc :(
     
  16. Retronana

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    But maybe wait untill You and I have picked ours up ;)

    Guy,

    It was good to get your input, just a shame we had to clean up all that dribble of the carpet before we left;)

    Talk to you mid week
     
  17. Ricky27

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    Hi there,i am thinking of getting the Panny or Sony but watch lots of 4;3 tv and video etc,which would be the best?
     
  18. General Skanky

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    I have a Sony on loan at the moment as my panny blew up. It's now been a week and I can say with confidence that the panny is the better of the two. Is your 4:3 viewing Sky? If so, set it to 16:9, watch on the panny and don't look back.

    Go to my thread about my pj dying and read my comparisons. Only now add that the sony really shows up the screen door a lot more.
     
  19. Ricky27

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    thanks for the reply,but what is the screen door?
     
  20. General Skanky

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    The grid that is the bane of LCD. Depending on the model, the screen door can be very aparant. It looks like a mesh on the screen. It is the method in which LCd projects an image on screen. The Sony in my opinion is not great at minimising the screen door, the Panasonic AE100 is. Get a demo and see for youself.
     
  21. gavan

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    You should give serious consideration to the Sony as the 4:3 panel will better match your viewing material.

    NB. Even in 16:9 mode (ie with a 'letterbox') for widescreen sources, the Sony doesn't offer _that_ much less pixel resolution than the AE100, despite the fact that the AE100 is a 16:9 panel.


    Gav
     
  22. gavan

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    You can't make 4:3 source material into 16:9 by setting an option on the Sky box.

    The fact is that the majority of material on the Sky multi-channels package is 4:3 or 14:9 - though BBC and ITV do show a decent amount of 16:9 programming.


    As for 'screen door', the AE100 has gotten a bit of a reputation for it online. As a HS1 owner I have to say I don't see this effect (aka 'chickenwire') at all, at 2x screen width.


    Gav
     
  23. General Skanky

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    I think Gavan and I will have to agree to disagree. Hence the importance of a demo.

    The Sony does have plus points.
    However, I disagree about the chicken wire effect.
    On Sky (RGB to S video output) viewed from 9 feet, the Sony's is far more noticeable. The Panasonic is better.

    I watched my copy of Hannibal R1 last night on the Sony via S Video, and it was a vast improvement. But still not quiet the level attained by the Panasonic. However, I must say that the chicken wire had 99.9% gone. It just had a bit of a processed look.

    But if you sit far enough away, then it wouldn't really matter.

    I watch Sky in 16:9 setting on sky and leave my panasonic on 16:9.
    On the sony I set it to 4:3. How you watch is dwon to your personal taste. For me widescreen if better.

    There is one crucial advantage the Panasonic has, allowing for the pros and cons of the two, and that is simply price. Cheaper.
     
  24. mikeaitch

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    Ok peeps, I've been watching this discussion develop for some time now. The Panny wasn't available when I made my choice; it seems to me that you won't go far wrong with either of these two, and they are light years ahead of what was previously available at anywhere NEAR the price.

    Timh, since you appear to be one of the Panny's biggest fans, how about bringing it to Stoke and we'll put both through their paces.I reckon if we can come to an agreement over which is better, then it might help others who are in this Sony v Panny debate. I'm very happy with my Sony, a few minor niggles apart, so if you can convince me, I reckon you can convince anyone.


    Btw, I've also made a hole in the wall to site my pj, and the Sony IS capable of being ceiling mounted as described elsewhere on this forum

    Timh, whadya think? Will there be a winner??
     
  25. Ricky27

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    What are the little niggles you have please,id like to know as i have decided on either the sony or sanyo plv 30.
     
  26. Timh

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    No point really, I had a demo of the HS1 via componant, it was ok but I coudn't live with the vertical line structure, take it from Guy the AE100 is the best.

    Ricky

    The plv-30 has some issues with progressive playback, depending on the player.
     
  27. Nic Rhodes

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    General S has done this already. Personally I trust him and he gave a very factual pro / cons for the two projectors. It was a well written series of posts.

    Perhaps you might just have to acept the new Panny is better?
     
  28. mikeaitch

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    I trust him too, in fact I bought a Kef 100c unheard on his recommendation and review. The reason I made the offer is this; Is the Panny good enough too convert a Sony fan? If so, THe debate would be over. I have two people who have seen my pj wanting to buy it if I wanted to sell, so if the Panny was better I could even swap my alliegience!

    As far as demos are concerned, theproblem with isolated ones vs direct comparisons is one of consistency - we can't be sure that the vertical lines Timh saw were down to the pj and not the leads/ dvd etc unless the competing pj allieviated the effect on the same set up so I thought it would allow him to confirm or even modify his views which lots of people like me rely upon when we make our buying decisions. If I was to change, a demo of the Panny in isolation, even at home, would always leave me wondering how the two compared.

    Obviously, I'm not as well known or experienced as others like Timh or General, but I thought it might have been a worthwhile exercise. I can borrow a Panny from a deler locally, so maybe I'll do it anyway just to satify my own curiosity.


    Ricky27, my minor niggles are these:
    1. some 'jagglies' during camera sweeps, which really does vary from disc to disc.

    2. Having to toggle through all of the inputs to switch back from component for my pj to s-video for my video. Surely Sony can get the pj to recognise if an input is connected?

    3. £80 - £100 for the component lead!!! TOO MUCH! especially as you still can't connect a computer.

    4. Slightly processed look to some textures, again most noticeable throgh camera pans.

    Still happy though! TV's hardly ever on!:D

    If the Panny's better, I'll be even happier! only paid £1699 for the Sony, I reckon i could change for a couple of hundred quid.

    Ps Timh- buying a Tosh 510 mainly on your recommendation, hence the invite
     
  29. General Skanky

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    Now I'm really embaressed.:blush:
    Glad you like the 100c Mike. It's a good one isn't it. By the way, it was Nic that helped me in that direction.

    As for the panasonic, if I were buying blind and went on other people's opinions, I wouldn't be upset.
    But going from the Sony to the panasonic (performance alone) the differencewill be less dramatic.

    Comments on your list from the panansonic viewpoint to help a bit-

    1. Jagglies on sweeps. Haven't noticed them. I played back the opening scene of Star Trek Insurrection R1 (as demoed by Stereo Stereo last year), and it looked excellent. Going from S Video to prog scan showed just how good it can get. And that was on the phono inputs, not vga, which many say is much better, haven't tried it.

    2. The Panasonic is the same, you'll have to toggle I'm afraid. But like the Sony, the settings for each input are memorised independently.

    3. Yes, the Panasoinc inputs are better. A huge bonus. I have my dvd player going via prog scan and others via S Video, still leaving composite and vga left for future things. Very handy. Plus Joe at The Media Factory can supply all the good quality leads you'll ever need cheaply and are universal, not tied to one product like the Sony.

    4. That processed look I had noticed. It took a few days but it is there. Yopu can see it on things like people's faces or outlines etc. A bit odd, but not overly so, it's just that I've seen it and it wasn't there on the Panasonic. But I will look for that on the Panasonic when I get my replacement. Just to be sure I'm right.:rolleyes:

    One other thing you'll definately have to factor in is the picture size. It's a lot bigger than the Sony. With its short throw lense, you may be slightly taken back by the size increase. I prefer it. Just make sure you can accommodate it.

    By the way, I'm no expert, I like to try and say what I see. Next year, no doubt a MkII model from Sony/Pansonic will appear, a lot cheaper, better etc. Such is life. Then someone else can praise that one up.:)
     
  30. Timh

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    Mike

    I spent quite a few weeks making my mind up, if to go for the HS1 or not, it wasn't easy, I was desperate for a projector, in the end I coudn't get the image size I wanted with the HS1, it really needed to be ceiling mounted. (at the time not possible).
    If it were not for the vertical lines I saw, I think I may have bought one.
    BTW. The demo I had of the HS1 was with a Sony DVP-NS900 dvd player, this years player of the year by HCC, it was connected by componant lead, shooting an image about 7ft wide.
    It was a sony demo at the Pratical HI-FI show earlier this year, showing the Pod race :O

    Take a look at the budget projector of the year in HCC, it wasn't the HS1.

    The Toshiba SD-510 is a very good progressive player for region 1 playback, it even makes a good job at interlaced playback with region 2, you will be very pleased with this player at £300.

    Get that AE100 loaned from the shop and see what you think, I am not sure if there is a big enough differance to justify selling your HS1 to get the AE100. Thats unless you want true 16:9 playback.
     

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