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Panasonic V750 and V700 a comparison

Terfyn

Prominent Member
I received my V750 on Saturday and had these few days to play. Harry expressed some slight interest so I put this comparison together for anyone thinking of changing their cameras.

This is a comparison between two Panasonic camcorders, the two year old HC-V700 and this years HC-V750. It is not a comparison between Panasonic and cameras from other manufacturers.

The first noticeable difference is the slightly fatter body of the 750, presumably to encase the larger lens system on this camera. The second difference is that there are less controls and buttons on the outside and the controls are based primarily on the LCD screen as icons. This greater use of “firmware” takes some getting used to but has a major advantage that it can be updated.
Two menu options are “Version” and “ Version Up”. If Panasonic issue a firmware update it is first downloaded onto the SD card and then read into the camera. So the camera has potential future proofing.

The outside controls are the video start/stop, still photo and zoom toggle plus a multi-purpose wheel to alter focus, white balance, shutter and aperture when in manual mode. There are four buttons hidden behind the LCD screen which, working downwards, control record/playback (toggle), picture levelling, Wi-Fi and on/off.
The picture levelling tries to correct any minor camera tip and bring the picture horizontal. Clearly a major boon for drunken nights, stag parties or filming in a force 10 gale!! Presuming that is the camera survives being doused in beer or being used as a weapon against a friendly PC.

The Wi-Fi has many options but the one I will use is the remote control of the camera for wildlife photography. Initially I had a problem connecting my phone but this was sorted by re-loading the Panasonic Image App, this needs to be the most up to date version. Both the camera and the phone have “Near Field Communication” (NFC) so I open the App, lay the phone on the camera, wait about a minute and the two are then connected. The App provides record on/off and zoom control, the ability to switch from video to still and playback functions. A picture shows the camera view albeit to a poor standard.

The “extras” are the, much vaunted, slow motion. (this requires a Class 10 SD card which I have yet to buy) Plus there are four “creative control” options: Miniature effect, 8mm movie, silent movie and time lapse. I would not use the first three as these effects can be easily replicated in post production but, if used in camera, the original (raw) recording is “contaminated” by the effect so is useless for adding to any other video. The time lapse looks more useful. The options are 1 second, 10 seconds, 30 seconds, 1 minute and 2 minutes per frame. As there are 25 frames to the second I will leave you to do the maths.

Audio is much upgraded with four microphone capsules. Two options here: 5.1 surround or Stereo. I don't have a Home Cinema set-up so the camera is set to Stereo with again two options: Focus and Zoom. The Focus concentrates the sound capture to the front of the camera and the Zoom provides an audio zoom connected to the lens. I know from experience of the V700 that this function works well and really concentrates the audio.
The microphones are noticeably sensitive and pick up every noise. (even the ones you don't want) They are fitted with an internal wind muff which actually works but only in a light breeze. Anything more and you hear the roaring albeit somewhat attenuated. Because of the design, I think, it would be easy to add an extra wind muff over the microphone cage and, with the extra sensitivity, this would work well.

Now a bad point. Both the flash and the video light are housed inside the lens area. This means that you cannot use either light with a protective glass filter in place – the light just bounces back into the camera. I like to cover the camera lens and mechanical lens cover with a UV filter to protect against damage or sand ingress (we live near the sea) so on the rare occasions I need the light, I will have to take off any filter fitted. On the V700 the video light was on the outside.
Now clearly this is a niggle as I can use a LED video light when required but it is for the odd times that either flash or infill lighting are needed in emergency. The camera is now fitted with a lens cap.

Low light performance has yet to be tested. The V750 does not have night vision capability but, for those interested, this is available on the HC-V850. The V850 has both a night vision setting and an Infra Red video light, an option that may be of use to wildlife photographers.

Finally the quality. It is good – no question. I record in 1920x1080/50p and the pictures are clear and sharp. Whether it is better than the V700 I have yet to test. All things considered a good camera for the money.
 

12harry

Distinguished Member
...Very good Terfyn, certainly interesting on the lens/lights - you'd think manufacturers were still learning... You mentioned lens-cap - is there no "cover"? or are you using that Cap to protect the mechanical cover, - that's certainly a very good idea.
My CX410 came with a free Reducing Ring 46 to 39 I think - what's that about? Who would want to cut down the filter size...? It's Ugly too!

I like the idea of "Leveling" sometimes I find (later) I lean a little, but can never remember which way. Don't notice it at the time of course.
In Edit, Pan/Crop can help.
I found the CX410 had a woeful tripod-bush ( four turns only!!!), so I made a 10mm plate ( still fits the case I bought), and cut two 1/4 inch Whitworths. The plate also supports a mesh and fluffy to cover the mic area . . . .

... & Thankyou for taking the time, to tell it how it is...
 
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Terfyn

Prominent Member
The camera has a mechanical lens cover like two blades that close over the lens. I would not like any ingress of sand or grit as IMO it would clog the operation of this cover. I currently fit a standard lens cap but I do intend to get a UV filter and ignore the use of the lights.
I discovered this (obvious) problem on the 700, as the flash is located inside the lens ring, when I took a couple of stills indoors. The photo was burnt out with a horrible blue tinge from the reflection of the flash.
 

raydawson

Established Member
What firmware version is your V750? Mine is 1.00 and I wondered if there had been an upgrade yet. Mine is V750EB PAL.

Ray D
 

Xood

Established Member
Terfyn, I hope it is ok I am asking some generation questions regarding the v750 in your thread.

1920 @50Mbps and 5.1 Sound

Can anyone confirm if it is possible to use the new 50Mbps mode and still get 5.1 audio recording?
Or is the 5.1 limited while recording with AVCHD?

I did read the manual and it is not very clear:
Audio Recording:
AVCHD: Dolby 5.1, 2ch
MP4: AAC/2ch

AAC is capable of 5.1, just odd they are not writing it out.

Wind shield
Does the camcorder really have a physical windshield inside the case, or is this done electronically?
I know Terfyn said it uses a muff, but I want to be certain since I read someplace someone suggesting it be just an electronically compensation.

Audio Quality
I have a SD99 right now, and the audio is pretty bad. I was going to use a Zoom H2n, but was wondering which level of quality the V750 produces? Can anyone compare it to previous generations, or to mobile audio recorders?

Thank you!
 

Terfyn

Prominent Member
Wind shield
Does the camcorder really have a physical windshield inside the case, or is this done electronically?
I know Terfyn said it uses a muff, but I want to be certain since I read someplace someone suggesting it be just an electronically compensation
.

Looking at the top of the camera, there is a metal grille and underneath a red felt like cloth. so some sort of "muff". Plus in Manual mode there is both a "Wind Noise Canceller" and a "Lowcut filter" for use with an external mic.
The wind muff does work in light breezes and reduces the "roar" in stronger winds.

1920 @50Mbps and 5.1 Sound
Can anyone confirm if it is possible to use the new 50Mbps mode and still get 5.1 audio recording?
Or is the 5.1 limited while recording with AVCHD?
I did read the manual and it is not very clear:
Audio Recording:
AVCHD: Dolby 5.1, 2ch
MP4: AAC/2ch
AAC is capable of 5.1, just odd they are not writing it out.


Best to look at P82-84 of the manual as there are a number of combinations which have different effects. It looks as if the MP4 AAC is limited to 2 channel stereo. I don't have a home cinema setup so can't test it.

There is a comparison that may interest you. See:-
Making my own set with Panasonic x920 and Zoom h4n | AVForums
where a 920 and a ZoomH4n are compared.
 

Xood

Established Member
Thank you for the sound link.

I did read the english manual now, and it turns out to be a the real manual. I must have had a shorted "german" version before. :)

The manual states something interesting in audio recording:
[MIC SETUP] will become [STEREO MIC] when the [REC FORMAT] is set to [MP4/iFrame]

I don't know if this refers to the MP4 video format, but if so this would not be very nice.
As only AVCHD seems to allow recording all channels.

It gets more interesting in regards to video quality.
I was thinking, MP3 with 50Mbps would be really great. But the manual states:
AVCHD 1080/50p is the best AVCHD picture quality for this unit
MP4 1080/50M are recording modes suitable for playback or editing on PC.

Why do they need to write so vague all the time.
Which produces the overall best video results? Has anyone tried to compare both modes?

I think I might just stick with the SD99 and buy a external recorder and wait for next years model. :)
 

rogs

Prominent Member
Which produces the overall best video results?

In theory, the MP4 format with its much higher bitrate should give better results. The AVCHD footage will be limited to 28Mbps, to meet the AVCHD 2.0 spec. The MP4 option has no such limitation.

How different this would be in reality, you can probably only discover by making a direct visual comparison of the footage.....

You will of course be more restricted in your playback options with the MP4 format. It's not Blu-ray compatible. (No AAC audio in Blu-ray, and 28Mb max bitrate) and the majority of hardware media players - like the WD Live for example - are not specified to handle these higher bitrate files. So computer or camera replay are likely to be the only viable options.

The AAC 5.1 audio format is not well supported at present, although it was chosen for BBC Freeview HD (which uses the HE AAC format). Again, replay can be a problem. The WDLive and most (All?) other mediaplayers can't handle AAC5.1. So I think it may be some time before AAC 5.1 becomes a 'mainstream' audio format.

And if we're being honest, recording 5.1 audio from a collection of microphones on the top of a camcorder is only going to produce a short term 'wow' effect for most consumers users. It's not really a serious option for quality audio. Much better to record your audio separately, using either external mic(s) plugged in to the camcorder, or a separate audio recorder.
I personally prefer the latter option, but not everyone agrees....
 

Terfyn

Prominent Member
I am surprised that these details are affecting your decision to buy. AVCHD 1920x1080/50p is the original design format for this camera and produces excellent video. The filming I have done in MP4 (mostly Slo-Mo) is also excellent. You can also get 1080/50p in MP4 format (p77 of the manual)

I waited until this year before upgrading from my HC-V700 to the 750 so missing out on the 720. It was a good move on my part as this camera is, in so many ways, leaps ahead of the 700. I am now enjoying the benefit. My experience is that new models rarely upgrade the basics but just add "nice to have" extras. The 750 bucked this trend with a new lens system and MP4 so, I expect, this will stay for at least a couple of years. It may be that HD recorders are totally replaced with 4K as seems to be the current trend in the USA or disappear totally to be replaced by DSLR.(I hope not)
 

Terfyn

Prominent Member
yes,The photo was burnt out with a horrible blue tinge from the reflection of the flash.thankshttp://******/li2XXj
I have spent most of my filming outside so have not tested the flash until now. I noticed that the LED video light/flash on the 750 is pushed forward from the lens itself - more so than the 700. So I fitted my 49mm UV filter and took some shots.
The effect is similar to the one you described but much less pronounced. The glow of the flash can be seen as two blobs of light but the rest of the photo is quite clear and, if cropped, could be used in emergency. This small projection pushing the lights more towards the filter ring has made a considerable difference to the flash effect with a filter in place.
 

GrahamV750

Novice Member
I received my V750 on Saturday and had these few days to play. Harry expressed some slight interest so I put this comparison together for anyone thinking of changing their cameras.
This is a comparison between two Panasonic camcorders, the two year old HC-V700 and this years HC-V750. It is not a comparison between Panasonic and cameras from other manufacturers.
The first noticeable difference is the slightly fatter body of the 750, presumably to encase the larger lens system on this camera. The second difference is that there are less controls and buttons on the outside and the controls are based primarily on the LCD screen as icons. This greater use of “firmware” takes some getting used to but has a major advantage that it can be updated.
Two menu options are “Version” and “ Version Up”. If Panasonic issue a firmware update it is first downloaded onto the SD card and then read into the camera. So the camera has potential future proofing.
The outside controls are the video start/stop, still photo and zoom toggle plus a multi-purpose wheel to alter focus, white balance, shutter and aperture when in manual mode. There are four buttons hidden behind the LCD screen which, working downwards, control record/playback (toggle), picture levelling, Wi-Fi and on/off.
The picture levelling tries to correct any minor camera tip and bring the picture horizontal. Clearly a major boon for drunken nights, stag parties or filming in a force 10 gale!! Presuming that is the camera survives being doused in beer or being used as a weapon against a friendly PC.
The Wi-Fi has many options but the one I will use is the remote control of the camera for wildlife photography. Initially I had a problem connecting my phone but this was sorted by re-loading the Panasonic Image App, this needs to be the most up to date version. Both the camera and the phone have “Near Field Communication” (NFC) so I open the App, lay the phone on the camera, wait about a minute and the two are then connected. The App provides record on/off and zoom control, the ability to switch from video to still and playback functions. A picture shows the camera view albeit to a poor standard.
The “extras” are the, much vaunted, slow motion. (this requires a Class 10 SD card which I have yet to buy) Plus there are four “creative control” options: Miniature effect, 8mm movie, silent movie and time lapse. I would not use the first three as these effects can be easily replicated in post production but, if used in camera, the original (raw) recording is “contaminated” by the effect so is useless for adding to any other video. The time lapse looks more useful. The options are 1 second, 10 seconds, 30 seconds, 1 minute and 2 minutes per frame. As there are 25 frames to the second I will leave you to do the maths.
Audio is much upgraded with four microphone capsules. Two options here: 5.1 surround or Stereo. I don't have a Home Cinema set-up so the camera is set to Stereo with again two options: Focus and Zoom. The Focus concentrates the sound capture to the front of the camera and the Zoom provides an audio zoom connected to the lens. I know from experience of the V700 that this function works well and really concentrates the audio.
The microphones are noticeably sensitive and pick up every noise. (even the ones you don't want) They are fitted with an internal wind muff which actually works but only in a light breeze. Anything more and you hear the roaring albeit somewhat attenuated. Because of the design, I think, it would be easy to add an extra wind muff over the microphone cage and, with the extra sensitivity, this would work well.
Now a bad point. Both the flash and the video light are housed inside the lens area. This means that you cannot use either light with a protective glass filter in place – the light just bounces back into the camera. I like to cover the camera lens and mechanical lens cover with a UV filter to protect against damage or sand ingress (we live near the sea) so on the rare occasions I need the light, I will have to take off any filter fitted. On the V700 the video light was on the outside.
Now clearly this is a niggle as I can use a LED video light when required but it is for the odd times that either flash or infill lighting are needed in emergency. The camera is now fitted with a lens cap.
Low light performance has yet to be tested. The V750 does not have night vision capability but, for those interested, this is available on the HC-V850. The V850 has both a night vision setting and an Infra Red video light, an option that may be of use to wildlife photographers.
Finally the quality. It is good – no question. I record in 1920x1080/50p and the pictures are clear and sharp. Whether it is better than the V700 I have yet to test. All things considered a good camera for the money.
I have just purchased the V750 and spent 2 full days trying to sort all the various features. Done some AVCHD 50P recording and copied to a DVD for TV playback -- the quality is excellent. I thought about buying an external microphone but put off by the socket being positioned behind the LCD screen -- I like the on/off feature of the swivel screen and with a microphone plugged in would lose this.
I then changed the internal mic to zoom mode and it seems fine (I am about to video a wedding in 2 weeks and hopefully the sound will be ok). The one thing that has totally beaten me is 'internal memory'. I have bought a 64 GB Sandisk 64GB SDHC Extreme HD card. My plan was to keep this in the camcorder for videos and use the 'internal memory' which I understand is 16 GB for photos. According to page 24 of the manual it is very simple to make this setting but I cannot find it in my menu. Does anyone know ?

The manual made me nervous about how long a full battery will last so I have the standard VBT190 supplied with the camera -- purchased a VBT380 as an extra and have just ordered a second VBT380 for the wedding -- I don't think I will get the opportunity of using the AC mains lead on the day.
When I first looked at the new generation of camcorders (small compared with my Panasonic NV-GS400 tape camcorder) I had strong doubts about their capabilities but after testing the V750 am well satisfied. I will use the GS400 as well at the wedding as a back-up. In the past if anything was going to fail it was always on the 'Big Occasion' so just covering my tracks. Flashgun failed at my son's Degree Ceremony for example.
 
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Terfyn

Prominent Member
Graham, Can I ask the obvious. You say you bought the 750 and NOT the 750M. It is the 750M that has the internal memory. So if you have got the 750, you will not see the menu on p24 as there is no internal memory.
The video and the photos finish as separate files on the SD card. You can sort the stills from the video by looking at the file layout as shown on p198 of the User Manual. The SD card structure has folders holding the photos and folders for storing the video. OR use HDWriter and "Copy to PC" from the SD card, the thumbnails have an icon on them, one for video and one for still, and a tick box to chose which files you want to store on your PC prior to editing.
Do check that your SD card is compatible with both your camera and your PC. ( something is niggling me about 64 Gb SDXC cards) I use two 16Gb Class 10 SDHC cards, ready formatted for a quick changeover.

Re the batteries. Another user has bought a USB charging pack off Amazon or E-Bay supplied for charging phones or laptops. He connects to the 750 via the supplied DC lead. The input is 5v so is compatible with USB charging voltages. The cost is around £20 so a 1/4 of the cost of a 380.
 
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GrahamV750

Novice Member
Graham, Can I ask the obvious. You say you bought the 750 and NOT the 750M. It is the 750M that has the internal memory. So if you have got the 750, you will not see the menu on p24 as there is no internal memory.
The video and the photos finish as separate files on the SD card. You can sort the stills from the video by looking at the file layout as shown on p198 of the User Manual. The SD card structure has folders holding the photos and folders for storing the video. OR use HDWriter and "Copy to PC" from the SD card, the thumbnails have an icon on them, one for video and one for still, and a tick box to chose which files you want to store on your PC prior to editing.
Re the batteries. Another user has bought a USB charging pack off Amazon or E-Bay supplied for charging phones or laptops. He connects to the 750 via the supplied DC lead. The input is 5v so is compatible with USB charging voltages.
Many thanks -- can see that now. These 'universal' guides can be misleading. Thought I was going mad.
 
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12harry

Distinguished Member
Terfyn, I'm sure you can source some v-small O-rings - have you tried one to act as a light barrier for the filter-issue you mentioned, Post12.?
Whilst this is unlikely to be a full-fix, it might be possible to fix one so as to reduce the problem.
It is a fault that many camcorders suffer - you'd think they don't expect customers to use the lights. - or do they fit "Filter-Threads" only because no-one told them not to?
 

Terfyn

Prominent Member
Terfyn, I'm sure you can source some v-small O-rings - have you tried one to act as a light barrier for the filter-issue you mentioned, Post12.?
Whilst this is unlikely to be a full-fix, it might be possible to fix one so as to reduce the problem.
It is a fault that many camcorders suffer - you'd think they don't expect customers to use the lights. - or do they fit "Filter-Threads" only because no-one told them not to?
Now that's an idea, will look into it. The O-rings would need to be glued around the light to keep them from moving when the filter is screwed in. Fortunately they use one lamp for both a video light and a flash.
 

mhh

Novice Member
Hi, I've just purchases a Panasonic hcv750. I used it for the first time the other day, outside in sunny conditions. I used manual mode fixing the shutter speed at 1/50 (effectively shutter priority mode) and expecting the camcorder to adjust the iris for proper exposure. However, the footage was consistently overexposed, with whites blowing out. I have since realised that this is because in this mode the iris maxes out at f8. Is this what others are finding out. The smallest aperture possible should be f16.
 

Terfyn

Prominent Member
Just run it in iA mode until you get used to it.
 

mhh

Novice Member
But in iA mode I have no idea what shutter speed and iris has been selected. Is there a way to determine this ? On my old Canon camcorder you could get this detail by half pressing the camera button.
I don't like high shutter speeds unless it is fast moving action. This is why I choose "shutter priority mode" to fix the shutter at 1/50 to comply with the 180 degrees rule, and give more naturalistic images.
 

Terfyn

Prominent Member
The 180-degree rule of shooting and editing keeps the camera on one side of the action. As a matter of convention, the camera stays on one side of the axis of action throughout a scene; this keeps characters grounded compositionally on a particular side of the screen or frame, and keeps them looking at one another when only one character is seen onscreen at a time.

Sorry - what has that got to do with shutter speed?
 

mhh

Novice Member
Sorry, I know what you mean in terms of the placement of the camera. I mean the 180 degrees rule for the shutter speed. ie twice the frame rate. 25 frames per second equates to 1/50 shutter speed.
 

GrahamV750

Novice Member
I used my V750 for the first time yesterday -- although I am fully experienced with manual settings on still cameras, under no circumstances would I risk 'getting things wrong' with manually setting a camcorder.
It was a wedding and just HAD to be right. Needless to say I stuck with IA plus the BEST recording format settings. Having looked at the results (quickly) this morning I am 'over the moon' so far --- there was still lots of life in the battery and plenty of space on the 64GB card (further worries I had before the event).
I have downloaded to my computer and yet to check through everything -- the one issue I don't know yet, however, is the quality of audio -- I did use an external microphone.
 

Terfyn

Prominent Member
I think the 750 may become one of those standards that others are judged by. There are very few disappointed 750 owners, I for one am happy I changed. My granddaughter is learning the trade on my HC-V700.

The sound should be OK if you left that on auto as well.

One thing I found with editing on top quality format. My Editor VideoStudio X7 got a bit overloaded and the picture juddered on playback (in the editor) BUT once the video was rendered to AVCHD the final result was perfect. So my PC is a bit underpowered for the best video format.

What microphone did you use and where did you locate it?
 

mhh

Novice Member
I wouldn't use fully manual settings either unless I had complete control over the environment. The only manual settings I would use would be to fix the shutter speed at 1/50 for normal recording and maybe increase it for fast motion.

This is where the problem has arisen. Whilst fixing the shutter speed at 1/50, the camcorder should do the rest to ensure proper exposure. However, in bright, sunny conditions the camcorder is maxing out at f8 in "shutter priority mode" whereas it is possible to go lower to f16. This results in overexposed footage unless I also manually adjust the iris to close it down more. However, the camcorder doesn't have any zebra pattern or histogram to help with determining the exposure. You would therefore have to do it by eye. One way around it is to use ND filters to reduce the light input to below f8. The camcorder can then auto adjust the iris for correct exposure. But this is a work around. I don't want to be fiddling around with ND filters just to film the kids or have to increase the shutter speed when it looks unnatural to me. I don't want the "Saving Private Ryan" or "28 days later" look. I have used many camcorders and never had this problem. I have communicated this to Panasonic and the feedback has been that this should not be happening. Maybe they'll fix it with a firmware update.

My experience with any IA mode is that it tends to prioritise the iris to the sweet spot (maybe f4 -f5.6) and increase the shutter speed. This is not what I want.
 

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