Panasonic V20 issue poss magenta noise?

Scooby2000

Distinguished Member
OK getting nowhere with Panasonic with this, I wont grumble on this thread, it doesnt help things, if you want to read the full rant:laugh: take a look on the V20 owners thread.:)

All I want to know is what it is please, believe me bashing Panasonic is very tempting but I want to keep on topic and try and findout what this is and why it would apper seemingly from nowhere on my set after some 7-8 months. Opinions welcome but please no sarcastic comments about it being a fault or not. For me under my definition it is, so thats not up for debate.

Examples of any issues people my think is related or indeed if they believe this is the same issue please post any images or data, this thread could then be of use to other members.

Pics:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_...AADE/K7ShHhD6FKs/s912/2011-04-03 01.02.54.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_...AAC4/rjNer7z3eDM/s912/2011-04-03 00.46.39.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_...AACw/nOr9XefO46U/s912/2011-04-03 00.45.08.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_...AAC8/l-aGo7RcWu0/s912/2011-04-03 01.02.22.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_...AAC0/19nlwqr3aYQ/s912/2011-04-03 00.51.28.jpg


If IFC is on the issue goes, IFC off it comes back. Contrast on some preset makes it appear at only one or two places up the contrast bar. Brightness can also effect it along with gamma changes. Some presets are worse than others. As well as on the PS3 XMB this shows on the sets option screens as a thin line running along the yellow bars(will take a pic tomorrow), this still remains when the XMB screen is clear of the issue.

I showed the above images to my local engineer and despite him not being able to recreate it he still felt the need to replace the main board. I'm sure this had some effect on how bad the issue is but cant be 100%

Will post some more pics tomorrow and maybe get some vids, though will only be from my Galaxys.



-------------------------------
Classic email from Panasonic.

"Dear Mr Bickmore,

Thank you for your e-mail enquiry.

Our engineers have been in discussion with Darling & Wood and I can confirm that they have found no fault with the product. The unit is operating within

specification.

In response to the image you are viewing, I would explain that the majority of the time, the IFC (Intelligent Frame Control) system works well to create a smoother picture from the original material.

However, some video scenes may confuse this system and cause the effect you have experienced. This problem would happen very infrequently

Should this occur, then the feature can be turned off. The set will then work in the conventional way, i.e. reproducing the original frame sequence without problems.

This effect of the IFC system is not a fault but a limitation of the complex IFC picture processing system. For this reason, there is the option to turn this feature OFF.

The IFC feature is highly recommended for 24p source material (Blu-ray sources) where it dramatically improves motion performance of panned scenes.

For other material, we recommend IFC be turned off to avoid the undesired effect that you had experienced.

We trust that the above information will be of assistance to you. However, of course, if you should have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact me on 0844 844 3852 or email me using the following email address:



Kind regards


Panasonic customer communications
Tel: 0844 844 3852
Fax: 0844 844 4408 "
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::suicide: You can just feel the warmth they have for customers....oh and it wasn't an email enquiry I was expecting this guy to call me back as he said he would:rolleyes: not send this junk.
 
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Kevstir

Active Member
hmm could this be the dreaded purple snakes raising there heads again, the th**px60/600 was known for it (my set hardly suffered mind you), the problem usualy apeared after a while, some showed up withing weeks of purchase and some like mines took 4 years before there was even a hint of them.

the fix for the px60 was a firmware update on the d-board, the only way to update the firmware was to get a new d-board installed with the latest firmware.

the fix wasnt 100% mind you, more like a 90% fix, when i got mines back after a new d-board change i could just see it if my face was right up at the screen and even then it was just some fizzing instead of magenta trails, sitting 7 feet away as you can imaging it looked fine.
 

Scooby2000

Distinguished Member

death valley

Active Member
looks indeed like purple snake; maybe you can test some material which were notorious for the snakes,like Panic Room, Harry Potter (don't know exactly which one)
 

Inferno

Distinguished Member
You could always get the aussie bloke to fix your set for you, the one with the bat :laugh:

Looks like misfiring pixels to me, tell em its bugging you and you want a new panel.
 

Scooby2000

Distinguished Member
You could always get the aussie bloke to fix your set for you, the one with the bat :laugh:

Looks like misfiring pixels to me, tell em its bugging you and you want a new panel.

:laugh: don't tempt me:D:smashin:

Panasonic dont want to know, apparently its not a fault so I'm stuck with it:thumbsdow

If it is misfiring will it get worse?


....ooo So tempting to rant lol......
 

Inferno

Distinguished Member
If it is misfiring will it get worse?

Hang on a minute my crystal ball aint working properly, im not gipsy rose robthewire you know :rotfl:

Seriously mate i dont know, what does it happen with source (not sauce) Playstation blu ray?? and across all picture modes but only with IFC on.
 

McFaber

Well-known Member
Looks like misfiring pixels to me, tell em its bugging you and you want a new panel.
Definitely not misfiring pixels, if anything it's the classic Panasonic false contouring hence some refer to it as the dreaded purple snakes. As said previously the false contouring issue has been around for 5 years now; Yes 5 years! Good news is it can be filtered out, but the downsides is the PQ takes a hit as a result.
 

Inferno

Distinguished Member
Definitely not misfiring pixels, if anything it's the classic Panasonic false contouring hence some refer to it as the dreaded purple snakes. As said previously the false contouring issue has been around for 5 years now; Yes 5 years! Good news is it can be filtered out, but the downsides is the PQ takes a hit as a result.

Thats a new board isnt it purple snakes, though it didnt look like it to me.
 

McFaber

Well-known Member
Thats a new board isnt it purple snakes, though it didnt look like it to me.
Trust me, it is Mate. I previously owned a PH'9 Pro plasma panel and currently own a Fujitsu 58' series that will easily replicate the very symptoms Scooby is experiencing.
Do a search on either models and you find in them threads there are posts linked to the issues.;)
 

Inferno

Distinguished Member
Tbh i never looked at the vids only the first one and now i have to concur with you, yes it is.

Thats a new d-board replacement to cure that isnt it, scooby have they not replaced the d-board thought they had replaced something but what was it?
 
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McFaber

Well-known Member
Tbh i never looked at the vids only the first one and now i have to concur with you, yes it is.

Thets a new d-board replacement to cure that isnt it, scooby have they not replaced the d-board thought they had replaced something but what was it?
IIRC a new board will have 90% success rate:rolleyes:, I can't confirm this as it's information from what I've read both on here and AVS.
As said before with the board fix(as with previous gen models)some users experienced a drop in PQ.
Fortunately for me I sold the PH'9 for a decent price rather than go for the fix they were offering, but this said I didn't think it was too bad on the PH'9 and from memory its hard to say whether Scoobs unit is worse, but once you notice the flaw it can be irritating to say the least.
You could say I jumped out of the pan into the fire when I purchased the Fujitsu, but I didn't see any user issues until after I received the panel. It's taken her a couple of years to notice, but even the wife said the other week.. What's that pinkish band on the wall? :eek: I dunno, I've seen it before...:blush:
 

Scooby2000

Distinguished Member
Definitely not misfiring pixels, if anything it's the classic Panasonic false contouring hence some refer to it as the dreaded purple snakes. As said previously the false contouring issue has been around for 5 years now; Yes 5 years! Good news is it can be filtered out, but the downsides is the PQ takes a hit as a result.

False contouring? thought that was another issue? I've seen false contouring(or at least what I thought was false contouring) on SD from the get go but this is new(to me), not noticed it before:confused:

I don't like it when things appear from nowhere, You guys that know your stuff may be happy to wright it off(well not happy but you know what I mean:)) as a general plasma trait but to me this isn't on, not with the buzz balls I've been having issue with since buying the first set. I've not seen this on my brothers Pio or PZ80, not seen it on my mates G15 or another mates G10 and never sore this on my PX80. Not ranting just saying:)

This set may have not been 4k or whatever but I expected a bit more(or less lol) from a 42" set that cost me 1200. I think this is my tipping point and I'm not going to let it go. Panasonic must have spent a few quid getting the main board replaced, so why not just replace my set?.....maybe as they spent of the 'repair' they don't want to:rolleyes: I'll be pursuing this though, as they have treated customers like crp for years its not on......ooo the ranters starting to slip out:laugh:

Cheers for the input guys:smashin: keep it coming:D
 

longy

Active Member
Faulty no other word for it mate, definitely (megenta problem) a term used by the tv technicians for the px60 range this is no different.
Does it do it on peoples faces, panic room dvd is the best test for this and more ammunition for future complaints .
 

McFaber

Well-known Member
No problem Scoobs, it's all part of my service. That'll be £200 please.:D

No seriously, if it really really bothers you then do try your upmost and insist to get some kind of replacement or a free calibration to minimise it at least.. But, and a big BUT..
I'm not sure exactly how long you've owned the unit, but unless a malfunction arises, not a design flaw, which I'm quite sure what we seeing here the chances of the consumer i.e. you getting like for like replacement several months down the line is not in their best interests, that's how it is I'm afraid.:(


Pretty much a technology issue. Some manufacturers seem to mask it well some don't.. Posterization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

Scooby2000

Distinguished Member
No problem Scoobs, it's all part of my service. That'll be £200 please.:D

Pretty much a technology issue. Some manufacturers seem to mask it well some don't.. Posterization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No seriously, if it really really bothers you then do try your upmost and insist to get some kind of replacement or a free calibration to minimise it at least. I'm not sure exactly how long you've owned the unit, but unless a malfunction arises, not a design flaw, which I'm quite sure what we seeing here the chances of the consumer i.e. you getting like for like replacement several months down the line is not in their best interests, that's how it is I'm afraid.

Yep went through the whole posterizing and false contour stuff and think what people say on other threads is posterizing with SD is false contouring i.e the rainbow or oil painting effect on skin tones. I don't think this is posterizing, not as I understand it anyway, if it was I don't understand how the gamma and contrast are effecting it, posterizing as I understand it is a lack of colours and in the industry I come from can be seen in textures(bitmaps) that have been compressed badly. On the video side of things I know little so I may be wrong in this case.:smashin:

I have read consumer rights etc and yes if the set has had some use then there is a discount to reflect this in any refund or replacement. However the last 10-11 months I've had this set I've had one replacement(cost me about 100 in fuel) and two non-repairs to the second set. I've prob been without the set a total of a month maybe more. So I haven't had 10-11 months of enjoyment from the set. I don't know its all a bit of a grey area(pun intended).
I'll have to see whats what, the local engineer still hasn't called, I bet the Panasonic guy dint even bother to ask him to, even though he said he would.
I will prob send a letter to the top guy at Panasonic UK and the MD of Panasonic, then continue to kick up a stink and see what happens. I don't take being treated the way I have lightly. I'm not naive, I know they will prob just bat me away but that doesn't mean I'll take it lying down. Bad publicity may be the way to go.:) anyway I'm ranting now doh! back to whats what. Lets have some detail/background on what this is(please:)) so others(and me:D) can learn.:smashin:
 
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Insanity202

Distinguished Member
Looks like what happened to my G20 though Dixons said it was there fault they had damaged the screen in transit.
Try turning the contrast up a few click it shifted it on my G20 when I did this.
 

McFaber

Well-known Member
Yep went through the whole posterizing and false contour stuff and think what people say on other threads is posterizing with SD is false contouring i.e the rainbow or oil painting effect on skin tones. I don't think this is posterizing, not as I understand it anyway, if it was I don't understand how the gamma and contrast are effecting it, posterizing as I understand it is a lack of colours and in the industry I come from can be seen in textures(bitmaps) that have been compressed badly. On the video side of things I know little so I may be wrong in this case.:smashin: Keep going, you're halfway there..:D
It's probably worth mentioning a forum poster using a DLP projector from another thread made a reference that the 8-bit source(?) may partly at fault for initiating the pasteurization, hence it could be quite possible users of different display techs' not just plasma users are having similar issues, I'd like to see more information on this myself, but it seems possible.
Anyway, posteurization, banding, false contouring to me lead to same avenue, hence obviously manufacturing design is at fault. Please bare with me on this as this is only my opinion.. Having owned PH'9 which along with the PX-60 were the first generation to carry the pasteurization issues and then move onto the Fujitsu which was Matsush*ta(Panasonic glass/Progressive pixel array technology)but with Fujitsu's own driving/processing electronics only to find the same issues. However! The one thing I noticed, particularly in the Fujitsu and a lot of the cases with Panasonic pro ranges the issue only affected the 42' and not the 50' models. Same glass, same electronics, just different size. Strange you may ask? Well, I never quite got to the bottom of why this only effected the 42s not the 50s, but I did think it had something to do with pixel array technology Panasonic were/are using. I also think the filters on the glass may also contribute, but yet mask some other faults. Think of a athlete who is taking a selection of drugs to mask the performance enhancing drugs.(crap analogy I know..)

I have read consumer rights etc and yes if the set has had some use then there is a discount to reflect this in any refund or replacement. However the last 10-11 months I've had this set I've had one replacement(cost me about 100 in fuel) and two non-repairs to the second set. I've prob been without the set a total of a month maybe more. So I haven't had 10-11 months of enjoyment from the set. I don't know its all a bit of a grey area(pun intended).
Several very disgruntled Fujitsu owners including me were ready to hand in a joint petition to the headquarters in Jap. The plan soon fell apart due to one of pack doing a complete turnaround after FG UK support magically fixed his faulty set, apparently his set was barely watchable.. Basically in turn for the favour he was forbidden to say what or how his display is now working to a satisfactory level. Hence the aftermath is the support point blank refused to accept there was ever a problem. Draw your own conclusions on this..:rolleyes:
I'll have to see whats what, the local engineer still hasn't called, I bet the Panasonic guy dint even bother to ask him to, even though he said he would.
I will prob send a letter to the top guy at Panasonic UK and the MD of Panasonic, then continue to kick up a stink and see what happens. I don't take being treated the way I have lightly. I'm not naive, I know they will prob just bat me away but that doesn't mean I'll take it lying down. Bad publicity may be the way to go.:) anyway I'm ranting now doh! back to whats what. Lets have some detail/background on what this is(please:)) so others(and me:D) can learn.:smashin:

If you are deadly serious on the matter get a lawyer involved. I had to do this once when Sony refused to play ball over some quite expensive hifi. Basically they crapped themselves and offered me more than what I bargained for.
 
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reddevil74

Active Member
I had a 2005 pv500 which i thought was great for 6 months
My eyes then started to be drawn to funny purple colours / bands on walls etc.
I posted on here at the time with a picture from the matrix asking had anyone seen anything similar but didnt get many replies.
Tv was taken away to service center for 2 weeks but they claimed it was fine.
The very next year the px60 purple snakes episode exploded and rest is history.
I think it is the most annoying of all panasonic traits as you cant help looking at the mess on walls etc when watching a film/programme
 

AbzH

Standard Member
Yep went through the whole posterizing and false contour stuff and think what people say on other threads is posterizing with SD is false contouring i.e the rainbow or oil painting effect on skin tones. I don't think this is posterizing, not as I understand it anyway, if it was I don't understand how the gamma and contrast are effecting it, posterizing as I understand it is a lack of colours and in the industry I come from can be seen in textures(bitmaps) that have been compressed badly. On the video side of things I know little so I may be wrong in this case.:smashin:

I have read consumer rights etc and yes if the set has had some use then there is a discount to reflect this in any refund or replacement. However the last 10-11 months I've had this set I've had one replacement(cost me about 100 in fuel) and two non-repairs to the second set. I've prob been without the set a total of a month maybe more. So I haven't had 10-11 months of enjoyment from the set. I don't know its all a bit of a grey area(pun intended).
I'll have to see whats what, the local engineer still hasn't called, I bet the Panasonic guy dint even bother to ask him to, even though he said he would.
I will prob send a letter to the top guy at Panasonic UK and the MD of Panasonic, then continue to kick up a stink and see what happens. I don't take being treated the way I have lightly. I'm not naive, I know they will prob just bat me away but that doesn't mean I'll take it lying down. Bad publicity may be the way to go.:) anyway I'm ranting now doh! back to whats what. Lets have some detail/background on what this is(please:)) so others(and me:D) can learn.:smashin:

Panasonic UK, Keith Evans, Managing Director = [email protected]
there you go scoobs, send the top dog a an email and tell him how much your enjoying Panys customer service.
 

Scooby2000

Distinguished Member
Looks like what happened to my G20 though Dixons said it was there fault they had damaged the screen in transit.
Try turning the contrast up a few click it shifted it on my G20 when I did this.

Yeh reminds me of the red dots you were on about. One of the vids shows the contrast changing it, gamma effects it too, IFC gets rid completely by the looks of it.

I've just got to the point where I've had enough mate, waiting for another feature to raise its head:rolleyes: On its own it may not be a problem, just avoid a certain amount of contrast on a certain preset or calibrate it out, but for all I know this time next year I wont be able to use a certain preset or even have contrast where I want it. One issue to live with I can say ok to, the set is fantastic for the money and to keep costs down your bound to have this that and tuther problem, but sorry I now also have an issue that an engineer thought worth replacing the main board for! Now if the set was say 600, ok again, but it wasn't it cost 1200, I'm not going to constantly use the price of the set to excuse Panasonic anymore. I thought I was getting a top set for my money, not a Kuro but a good set, as close to a kuro as I could afford to get to, all these issues are not on.:thumbsdow

....oops, duck! rant mans back:laugh:

Do you guys think its worth getting an independent engineer out to do a report? will Panasonic listen to such a report without without me having to take things further?
 

Insanity202

Distinguished Member
Yeh reminds me of the red dots you were on about. One of the vids shows the contrast changing it, gamma effects it too, IFC gets rid completely by the looks of it.

I've just got to the point where I've had enough mate, waiting for another feature to raise its head:rolleyes: On its own it may not be a problem, just avoid a certain amount of contrast on a certain preset or calibrate it out, but for all I know this time next year I wont be able to use a certain preset or even have contrast where I want it. One issue to live with I can say ok to, the set is fantastic for the money and to keep costs down your bound to have this that and tuther problem, but sorry I now also have an issue that an engineer thought worth replacing the main board for! Now if the set was say 600, ok again, but it wasn't it cost 1200, I'm not going to constantly use the price of the set to excuse Panasonic anymore. I thought I was getting a top set for my money, not a Kuro but a good set, as close to a kuro as I could afford to get to, all these issues are not on.:thumbsdow

....oops, duck! rant mans back:laugh:

Do you guys think its worth getting an independent engineer out to do a report? will Panasonic listen to such a report without without me having to take things further?
You could try though I dont no how much it would cost. If they dont listen your retailer should. Best to call consumer direct mate to get expert advice.
 

Scooby2000

Distinguished Member
It's probably worth mentioning a forum poster using a DLP projector from another thread made a reference that the 8-bit source(?) may partly at fault for initiating the pasteurization, hence it could be quite possible users of different display techs' not just plasma users are having similar issues, I'd like to see more information on this myself, but it seems possible.
Anyway, posteurization, banding, false contouring to me lead to same avenue, hence obviously manufacturing design is at fault. Please bare with me on this as this is only my opinion.. Having owned PH'9 which along with the PX-60 were the first generation to carry the pasteurization issues and then move onto the Fujitsu which was Matsush*ta(Panasonic glass/Progressive pixel array technology)but with Fujitsu's own driving/processing electronics only to find the same issues. However! The one thing I noticed, particularly in the Fujitsu and a lot of the cases with Panasonic pro ranges the issue only affected the 42' and not the 50' models. Same glass, same electronics, just different size. Strange you may ask? Well, I never quite got to the bottom of why this only effected the 42s not the 50s, but I did think it had something to do with pixel array technology Panasonic were/are using. I also think the filters on the glass may also contribute, but yet mask some other faults. Think of a athlete who is taking a selection of drugs to mask the performance enhancing drugs.(crap analogy I know..)


Several very disgruntled Fujitsu owners including me were ready to hand in a joint petition to the headquarters in Jap. The plan soon fell apart due to one of pack doing a complete turnaround after FG UK support magically fixed his faulty set, apparently his set was barely watchable.. Basically in turn for the favour he was forbidden to say what or how his display is now working to a satisfactory level. Hence the aftermath is the support point blank refused to accept there was ever a problem. Draw your own conclusions on this..:rolleyes:


If you are deadly serious on the matter get a lawyer involved. I had to do this once when Sony refused to play ball over some quite expensive hifi. Basically they crapped themselves and offered me more than what I bargained for.

Interesting post mate cheers:smashin: I would be speaking to a lawyer tomorrow if I had the cash, unfortunately I still dont have a job:( though I may look into getting a letter mad up.
I'm going to try and speak to the engineer that did the work and find out where the communication broke down. I was told by Panasonic that if an engineer reported it as a fault then panasonic would fix or replace. The engineer agreed something was wrong going by my pictures and attempted a repair in the hope it would be solved even though he couldn't reproduce it. I was lead to belive I would get a replacement, then all of a sudden because Panasonic engineers don't see a fault I get jack all but an email explaining IFC?! :confused:

I'm not going to let it go, if I don't get a replacement set I'll be kicking up a proper stink oh yes:D
 

Scooby2000

Distinguished Member
Panasonic UK, Keith Evans, Managing Director = [email protected]
there you go scoobs, send the top dog a an email and tell him how much your enjoying Panys customer service.

:laugh: Oh I will, first pass is up to to pages already:laugh::smashin:
 

Scooby2000

Distinguished Member
You could try though I dont no how much it would cost. If they dont listen your retailer should. Best to call consumer direct mate to get expert advice.

Retailer dont give two hoots mate, rang them a while back:thumbsdow besides they wouldnt take the second buzz box back as Panasonic said no:rolleyes:...apparently.

I have my Spears and Munsil disk! yay! lets see haw many more pics I can take with all these wonderfull test patturns:laugh:

Please anybody who has had this issue in the past present or have some technical knowledge, please share. Trying my hardest not to rant:D as I want a place for others to reference. any example pics or videos of this issue on other set is more than welcome.:)
 
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