Panasonic UB900 & UB700 UHD PQ

acrantophis

Active Member
Aplogies to all if discussion on my query exists somewhere but I own a Sony BDP S7200 Blu ray player and a Sony KD65 9005b Tv which whilst not HDR, does have extended dynamic range. After picking up both versions of the panasonic UHD player and altering every setting available, I cannot get a picture which anyone in the family feels to be an upgrade and the OH is adament of it being a downgrade. The issue being that the images are duller and lack "pop" in comparison to the Sony. We've spent a good number of hours playing BD vs BD on different inputs and also UHD vs BD advancing chapters and switching inputs to compare. The UHD pq over upscaled BD is also something non of us can see. I have read some discussion of this and also notice the amount of UHD players going up for sale, yet most of the reviews suggest large improvement. Is it that the Panasonic colours are more accurate and the Sony is more saturated ? Are we missing something ..........?
 
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yandybox

Distinguished Member
Yes, HDR.
In my opinion it's the HDR what would make the difference and give you the 'pop' you were expecting.

You seem to have done plenty of tests and checks, and for the TV you own a BD player seems to fit better, why not stick with that combo till it's time to upgrade your TV to a HDR capable TV?


I know others will say they are happy with the picture on their non-HDR TV, but you don't seem to be. My advice is either stick with BD till it's time for a new TV, or go TV shopping. :)
 

acrantophis

Active Member
Thankyou, but surely this would not affect hd blu ray played on a uhd player ??
The picture is very, very good and if I didn't have the other player for comparison, I'd no doubt be very happy, perhaps its just the Sony doing an exceptional job or our preference for the 'pop' in the Sony picture. I did happen by some discussion here-

4K Blu-ray vs Blu-ray Reveals HDR Is Too Dim for Daytime

They also describe UHD as a little dull but as we see it in the panasonic hd playback also, this cant have anything to do with HDR...??
 
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yandybox

Distinguished Member
BD - BD comparison on both players, there should be little difference, both should be good.

UHD - BD comparison is both dependant on the movie (not all discs are an upgrade in quality) and the TV.

That article is ancient in terms of HDR info, a lot of people in this forum would disagree that it's too dull for daytime, myself included.
 

acrantophis

Active Member
Yes, thats rather the point. Bd to Bd not equal. Uhd using Revanent and Sicario. Tried both 900 and 700 players with similar conclusions. The extra detail expected from UHD is not present to our eyes when compared to upscaled blu ray either and looked long and hard. It appears that we are not the only people disillusioned as there are an awful lot of uhd players in the classifieds.
Certainly don't find too dull to view,, just disappointing !!!
 
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yandybox

Distinguished Member
Yes, thats rather the point. Bd to Bd not equal. Uhd using Revanent and Sicario. Tried both 900 and 700 plyers with similar conclusions. The extra detail expected from UHD is not present to our eyes when compared to upscaled blu ray either and looked long and hard. It appears that we are not the only people disillusioned as there are an awful lot of uhd players in the classifieds.
Certainly don't find too dull to view,, just disappointing !!!
Fair enough.

I have taken a realistic view myself and find I am picking and choosing carefully which discs are worth purchasing. But remember it's still early in the life of UHD, they will learn how to get better results in time.
 

kbfern

Distinguished Member
No one is selling their UHD player in the classifieds IMV to go back to standard bluray they are just selling their perfectly good UHD Panny or Sammy to go for the ultra expensive oppo 203 that won't have any better a picture.

I got a Panny UB700 for xmas and watched the shallows UHD today and it was sublime and the colours and contrast really popped on my 65" Panny CR852 tv. A vast improvement on 1080p bluray.
 

doug56hl

Distinguished Member
Yes, thats rather the point. Bd to Bd not equal. Uhd using Revanent and Sicario. Tried both 900 and 700 plyers with similar conclusions. The extra detail expected from UHD is not present to our eyes when compared to upscaled blu ray either and looked long and hard. It appears that we are not the only people disillusioned as there are an awful lot of uhd players in the classifieds.
Sicario is native 4K so will have real 8.3 megapixels (forgetting the black bars) vs the 2 megapixels from the blu-ray. Thus I can't understand how the UHD didn't have more sharpness/detail than the blu-ray. It certainly does for me. The landscape shots especially the aerial ones are way more detailed. There is the 10 bit UHD colour vs the 8 bit on the blu-ray as well. What distance are you sitting from the screen?

The awful lot of UHD players in the classifieds may have more to do with people getting the OPPO 203 and getting rid of their existing UHD players rather than disillusionment with the format. There is much to be disillusioned by but the stand out gems make up for it. Just need to sort them out from the dross.
 

doug56hl

Distinguished Member
But remember it's still early in the life of UHD, they will learn how to get better results in time.
I'm fine with that as long as the early adopters get free trade in for the future better releases :) Although I'm wondering if the recent far more realistic pricing and the short sales of back catalogue releases are signs that the market is not going how the studios expected. OK sales are reportedly higher than for the equivalent period after blu-ray release but there are a lot more 4K sets out there now than there was for full HD sets at that time. And there isn't a competing new physical format around now as there was with HD-DVD.
 

acrantophis

Active Member
Sicario is native 4K so will have real 8.3 megapixels (forgetting the black bars) vs the 2 megapixels from the blu-ray. Thus I can't understand how the UHD didn't have more sharpness/detail than the blu-ray. It certainly does for me. The landscape shots especially the aerial ones are way more detailed. There is the 10 bit UHD colour vs the 8 bit on the blu-ray as well. What distance are you sitting from the screen?

The awful lot of UHD players in the classifieds may have more to do with people getting the OPPO 203 and getting rid of their existing UHD players rather than disillusionment with the format. There is much to be disillusioned by but the stand out gems make up for it. Just need to sort them out from the dross.
We sit around 12' from a 65" screen. Obviously the Tv upscales to 4k. We've done a lot of side by sides in Revanant for example which looks much duller and fog etc a shade darker on the Panasonics but concentrated on bark, moss, water, hair etc. Playing around with dynamic range adjustment, we got similar brightness but just could not match the Sonys Colour saturation, faces paler in sicario, Ariel shots with cars on bridge, cars more subdued/matt than on the sony regardless of uhd or bd, yellows on checkpoint steelwork more matt looking.
But as mentioned, pano picture is still very good just not better. I have read a few comments through the threads of people not seeing much if any improvement. The uhd vs blu ray thread etc.
 

kbfern

Distinguished Member
12ft from a 65" screen will not see much difference in resolution between 4k and 1080p. Colour saturation and HDR will be better if you have an hdr and wide colour gamut enabled tv.
 

Geoff_D

Distinguished Member
We sit around 12' from a 65" screen. Obviously the Tv upscales to 4k. We've done a lot of side by sides in Revanant for example which looks much duller and fog etc a shade darker on the Panasonics but concentrated on bark, moss, water, hair etc. Playing around with dynamic range adjustment, we got similar brightness but just could not match the Sonys Colour saturation, faces paler in sicario, Ariel shots with cars on bridge, cars more subdued/matt than on the sony regardless of uhd or bd, yellows on checkpoint steelwork more matt looking.
But as mentioned, pano picture is still very good just not better. I have read a few comments through the threads of people not seeing much if any improvement. The uhd vs blu ray thread etc.
I've got the 55" version of your TV and I'm blown away by the difference between BD and UHD.
 

DJJez

Active Member
We sit around 12' from a 65" screen. Obviously the Tv upscales to 4k. We've done a lot of side by sides in Revanant for example which looks much duller and fog etc a shade darker on the Panasonics but concentrated on bark, moss, water, hair etc. Playing around with dynamic range adjustment, we got similar brightness but just could not match the Sonys Colour saturation, faces paler in sicario, Ariel shots with cars on bridge, cars more subdued/matt than on the sony regardless of uhd or bd, yellows on checkpoint steelwork more matt looking.
But as mentioned, pano picture is still very good just not better. I have read a few comments through the threads of people not seeing much if any improvement. The uhd vs blu ray thread etc.
maybe you are expecting too much of a difference?

the difference for me is pretty big. after watching lucy and pacific rim i was blown away. maybe you just expect alot more?
 

acrantophis

Active Member
12ft from a 65" screen will not see much difference in resolution between 4k and 1080p. Colour saturation and HDR will be better if you have an hdr and wide colour gamut enabled tv.
Colour saturation in UHD maybe but I do not understand why it will be better BD BD in different players, the Panasonic should just be upscaling ? HDR should not come into feature ? If the tv has the saturation with the sony then its not the tv, has to be with the panasonic picture ?
So far as UHD, Perhaps the Sony combination is very good at upscaling, I'm no expert but four people's eyes see no measurable improvement. Perhaps perceived improvement depends on the outgoing equipment.
 
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Geoff_D

Distinguished Member
One assumes that the TV settings on the different inputs have been set identically when you're comparing the two players?
 

acrantophis

Active Member
One assumes that the TV settings on the different inputs have been set identically when you're comparing the two players?
Yes, tried direct with 4k certified Hdmi and also on different amp inputs and switching between amp inputs for picture comparison. If even the BD BD comparison was equal, we'd keep the player just for the theoretical hi res sound improvement and to get away from the sony's occasional lock ups.
 

acrantophis

Active Member
Agreed. Also that the players own picture 'enhancements' are set to off/neutral.
Actually not checked enhancements on the Sony although I've never altered any settings so it is as it was from new.
 

doug56hl

Distinguished Member
Actually not checked enhancements on the Sony although I've never altered any settings so it is as it was from new.
Check your picture quality mode on the Sony. If it's on the default shipping mode it may be on an equivalent to the store mode in televisions,

[Picture Quality Mode]: Selects the picture settings for different lighting environments.
z
[Direct]
z
[Brighter Room]
z
[Theater Room]
z
[Auto]
z
[Custom1]/[Custom2]
x
 

acrantophis

Active Member
Sony BD
IMG_2569.JPG
 

acrantophis

Active Member
IMG_2570.JPG
Panasonic BD
 

acrantophis

Active Member
Panasonic UHD
IMG_2571.JPG
 

Jezza99

Banned
Diffiult to tell much from screen grabs, but the Panny looks the more natural picture to me , the Sony looks a bit garish.

Have you checked the inputs on your LX59 as well ? Have you configured them for 4K ? Do you have any video effects on it enabled ?
 

doug56hl

Distinguished Member
Do you have both the Panasonic and the Sony doing the 4K upscaling? And what does the Panasonic show for the output resolution and bit depth on the info popup?

The Sony image looks like it has more colour saturation, perhaps a slightly different hue and also more contrast especially when looking at the blackness of the shadow underneath the nearest car. If that's the look you like, you could always have a play with these setting in the Panasonic to try and match the Sony colours.

The main differences between the Sony and the Panasonic blu-ray images are the mustard colour of the background hoarding, the darkness of the tree branches plus the tops of the letters on the hoarding, and the intensity of the blue of the cars. The green of the trees also seems to have a slightly different hue although that again may be due to more contrast and saturation.

Attached image is from the ones you posted and shows from left to right the original Panasonic blu-ray, +contrast and +saturation Panasonic to more closely match the Sony and the Sony itself.

contrast.jpg
 
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acrantophis

Active Member
Many Thanks for your thoughts everyone, the images were taken after a good few hours messing around last night and are the closest they have been. To my eyes, the UHD pic has more colour than the Panasonic Blu and Jezza may be right that we are used to an excessively saturated picture . Thanks for your help Doug, actually taking the screen grabs helped a lot to make a comparison. UHD display info shows 4k but have not noted bit depth. Sony player was on direct mode (previously auto). I still have to conclude little to be seen so far as an improvement in definition (at any distance) but as we have an atmos setup, there are more atmos tracks on UHD and also makes sense to me to invest in UHD rather than BD discs as going forward, new kit will be at this level. Additionally, the Panasonic may have the edge on sound as well as feeling better built. Most serious viewing will be through a 1080p projector anyway. Again, many thanks to those who replied with advice.
 

carl1234

Standard Member
I have the 55x900b with the Panasonic ub700 and I too had been slightly disappointed with the uhd blurays I had watched so far. After reasearching the forums I had the player saying it was outputting rec.2020 and 12bit but to me the picture was still dull with slightly washed out colours and green tinge. That is until I just discovered that Under display settings I had the colour matrix set to custom on hdmi2. I flicked this over to auto and now I am amazed by the picture. Currently watching ghostbusters answer the call and it's so bright and the colours so vibrant. Im sure you have But worth checking through these settings again.
 

acrantophis

Active Member
After getting stuck into this and reading up on 9005b owners thread, I adjusted TV backlight settings from 1 to 6 which is around half way. Huge difference in the picture now. Thanks to Geoff_D.
 

andyblu76

Active Member
I looking to buy UB700 but now I have my doubts after reading the review on hdtvtest regarding the 12bit basically what they're saying is is not recommended for Samsung TV is from 2015 I have JS9000 I really like to know why the Samsung 2016 are ok so what on the 2016 models that's not on my JS9000 I've added the link and that mention it also in the video review
Is due to banding problems if anyone to shed some light on the I would appreciate it


Panasonic DMP-UB700 Review: Nailing 4K Blu-ray Chroma
 

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