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Panasonic TY-42TM4D DVI Terminal Board and Panasonic TH-50PHD5 plasma

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by StooMonster, Jan 27, 2004.

  1. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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    "TY-42TM4D DVI Terminal Board allows for direct digital input of RGB signals, which increases the number of gray shades that can be reproduced to 2,048. It also enables the reproduction of 2,048 shades via the Real Gamma Correction technology in Panasonic's plasma displays, double the 1,024 shades of graduation via analogue inputs.

    Specifically designed for TH-50PHD5 / TH-42PHD5 / TH-42PWD5 Panasonic plasma displays, the DVI connection minimises the data transfer distortion and sync problems that are common in conventional analog transfers. "

    Now the 5 series are old models these DVI cards are getting cheaper and cheaper, my question...

    Did Panasonic ever upgrade the software on the TY-42TM4D DVI Terminal Board so that it accepted and displayed 1366x768 resolution on TH-50PHD5 plasmas, or was it always locked to 1024x768 only?

    StooMonster
     
  2. gmt steve

    gmt steve
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    Could I make good use of one of these DVI cards on my TH-42PWD5?
    I have an iScan Ultra with a DVI output, which I presume would avoid uneccessary D/A - A/D steps in the signal chain.
    If so, were do I get my greedy hands on one?
     
  3. jmack

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    is our iscan dvi for ntsc only? can these dvi cards be fitted to 4 series panny/toshiba?
     
  4. Jasonjo

    Jasonjo
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    Iscan Ultra and Panny DVI dont mix IIRC
     
  5. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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    See my post above, second paragraph. ;)

    You see, that was kind of my thought with DVDO iScan HD.

    The iScan Ultra had a bug in it's PAL DVI output and doesn't output 576p but 572p; some screens can resolve this, Panny DVI board can not.

    Apparently this is fixed in new iScan HD and it outputs 576p via DVI, next question is does the TY-42TM4D DVI Terminal Board accept a proper PAL 576p DVI signal and display it?

    My second concern with this board is that if it only displays 1024x768 it will first scale 480p/576p to 1024x768 and then scale that to 1366x768. Anyone know if this is the case?

    From what I understand they are series 4 cards: TY-42TM6D is for 6 series, TY-42TM4D is for 4 and 5 series, there is no TY-42TM5D which is why I think the resolution was never updated.

    Interested in finding out as much as possible about these cards, search Google for "TY-42TM4D DVI Terminal Board" gets some results for places selling them; but I'm sure deals can be done. :)

    StooMonster
     
  6. gmt steve

    gmt steve
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    So I could use the combo successfully with R1 NTSC DVDs?
    Does anyone know if I would gain a significant improvement?
    Also, which terminal board would I have to replace? I currently have a RGB/Component (phonos)board, an S-Vid/Composite board and an RGB/VGA (D-Sub) board.
     
  7. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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    Sounds like you have series 6 (with the three boards), so you would need "TY-42TM6D DVI Terminal Board" and given a choice I would replace s-video/composite.

    From what I understand the series 6 one supports 1366x768 (yah!) but only at 60Hz. Fine for R1 DVDs either though iScan Ultra or HD or anything else with plain old DVI output.

    StooMonster
     
  8. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
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    iScan Ultra still won't produce anything via DVI from an NTSC disk on a Panasonic plasma no matter which model or generation.

    GMT Steve - sounds like you could have the 5 or 6 (you mention PWD5 earlier). I don't think the 5 series DVI board was able to take anything other than 1024 x 768 (i.e. it wasn't prepared for Progressive Scan resolutions at all), as to whether the HD will have any more joy than the Ultra I don't know. But Owl reckon i'll have one to play with soon... Either way you will need to run an iScan via component rather than DVI, obviously DVI is better but that doesn't mean component isn't a massive improvement, cos it is!
     
  9. MAW

    MAW
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    That should read 1368 x 768 for the 50" of course, but then what's a 1 pixel overscan between friends. Incidentally I have yet to see this working, but ask me on Friday evening....
     
  10. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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    Why should that read 1368x768? Panny 50" panel's physical pixel structure is 1366x768, and any decent video card (like mine) resolves 1366x768 perfectly. :) Lame old video cards may have to limit resolutions to numbers divisible by 8 though. ;)

    StooMonster
     
  11. MAW

    MAW
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    Like my 9700pro
     
  12. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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    Liam, thanks for your reply. It was only a thought about "TY-42TM4D DVI Terminal Board" for series 5 Panny 50" screen.

    I understand this DVI card can only resolve 1024x768@60Hz and works in 4:3 mode (1024x768) or stretches the pixels in 16:9 mode. It sounds like series 6 Panny card is a little better, supporting 1366x768@60Hz (for those with proper graphics cards or scalers) but not other vertical refresh rates; which is still poor, but not very poor like the series 5 card.

    DVDO iScan HD can support all sorts of output resolutions (as well 480p and 576p) and does framerate conversions too. Therefore I think it's highly likely that it could resolve 1024x768@60Hz via DVI for a series 5 screen, it's just a matter of would one want to? Furthermore, iScan HD can match 1366x768@60Hz via DVI of series 6 and using framerate conversion could display a PAL picture (with judder) or a NTSC picture with not problems.

    Be interested to see DVDO iScan HD when it comes out, I telephoned AV-Sales this morning to ask about your website saying demos available, but not public apparently. :( Actually, it’s a lie, I’ll probably order one the day that it’s available. :devil: May be driving across Kent soon to pick one up I hope.

    StooMonster
     
  13. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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    Not the card then, but your configuration!

    My 9700pro resolves 1366x768 perfectly, and at all standard refresh rates up 85Hz, don't need no overscanning -- for VGA, you are talking DVI input aren't you?

    StooMonster
     
  14. dalbaht

    dalbaht
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    is it possible to get a DVI board for a panny 5 37" ?
     
  15. gmt steve

    gmt steve
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    No I definitely have a PW5, is there something odd about my having the three boards?

    Not sure what you mean by this. I currently run a Pioneer DV747 via interlaced component into the Ultra. I also run Laserdisc via composite and Sky+ via S-Video both into the Ultra. Then VGA out of the Ultra into the PW5. Other than possibily trying Sky+ via an RGB2component converter into the Ultra, isn't this the ideal configuration?
     
  16. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
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    Steve,

    you have one board with 5BNCs plus audio and SVHS/CVBS IO plus audio. Then you have the standard PC socket and RS232 port.

    Ideal configuration is likely to be running Sky+ through an RGB 2 YUV box and analogue up to the plasma which you are running as RGB rather than component which is fine (iScan can output either). You could use DVI connection for NTSC sources only if you wanted to...
     
  17. gmt steve

    gmt steve
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    Cheers for that Liam. The component/RGB board is actually RCAs, but that's by the by. I actually posted a short while back about the Sky+ thing, since I wasn't sure the results would be much improvment. I know component has more colour bandwidth, but I surmised that the iScan has a pretty good front end and with cables and a JS Tech box coming in at £200ish, there might not be much improvment, especially with the quality of the Sky bitstream.
    What do you think?
     
  18. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
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    Unfortunately I don't have a Sky+ here to test with so couldn't tell you if the improvement would be significant. If anyone reading has a Sky+ box connected using an RGB2YUV converter, fancy trying an SVHS connection and letting us know????
     
  19. gmt steve

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    Well, before I had the iScan I used a JS Tech RGB2VGA unit and that improved things quite a lot. Mainly by removing a layer of noise and giving the colours a bit more punch, as opposed to s-vid. So I'm pretty sure that the RGB2component would have a similar result, although John Simm himself, reckons the RGB2VGA is superior.
    My thinking is that it's the iScan that might make an RGB2component unit a bit overkill, since the iScan is converting s-vid to component at a, presumably, high standard.
     
  20. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
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    It doesn't matter that the iScan is turning it into component, it's the signal it's using to do it with that counts. You've got to remember that at the moment the picture you're seeing is based on an S-Video signal from the Sky+ box, whereas with a RGB2YUV box it will be based on an RGB signal.
     
  21. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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    The Panasonic 5 series have one board, the 6 series have three boards (you can mix and match).

    StooMonster
     
  22. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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    Accepting that:
    1. DVI card replaces component input
    2. DVI card is not DHCP
    3. two models TY-42TM4D (US version) and TY-42TM4DB (British and European version)
    4. have seen on web for £180 (using current high exchange rate)

    The manuals say that it supports the following modes:
    . 620x480@60Hz
    . 800x600@60Hz
    . 852x480@60Hz *
    . 1024x768@60Hz
    * I have PDF manual of the TY-42TM4DB manual listing this as a supported mode; could be good news for 42" SD series 5 owners wanting native resolution support via DVI.

    Support for 50” screens
    This plasma’s manual doesn’t say that it will support 1366x768 via VGA, but it does. Which begs the question: has anyone tried sending a 1366x768@60Hz signal to these cards? Not just read the specs and said “no it can’t”, but actually tried it?

    If that doesn't work
    The circuit diagrams of the TH-50PHD5's service manual show the D1 input, from H1 edge connector of TY-42TM4DB, linking via...
    TX0+- to LVDS:DATA0
    TX1+- to LVDS:DATA1
    TX2+- to LVDS:DATA2
    TX3+- to LVDS:DATA3
    TXC+- to LVDS:CLK
    (plus regular voltage carriers)
    ...to a regular LVDS (Low Voltage Differencial Signaling) IC that directly feeds the plasmas Format Convertor IC.

    If the plasma/card is limited to the above resolutions, is it a feature of this series 4 blade or the series 5 screen? (Panny should've made a TY-42TM5D card, there was TY-42TM4D for series 4 and TY-42TM6D for series 6.)

    I wonder if it is it possible to mod or hack the Windows driver or cards firmware or hardware to make it work with 1366x768? One of my friends says he’s read of somebody hacking the firmware in TY-42TM4D to make it accept different resolutions, but he can't find the article/link anymore. Anyone heard of this?

    DVI poor colour range (on this screen)
    Saying all this, I've also read reports that VGA input gives a better colour range than DVI on this screen, although the marketing materials of these DVI cards says they increase bit depth from 10-bit (1024 shades of grey) to 11-bit (2048 shades of grey).

    Also VGA accepts loads of fresh rates, without any down-covertion to 60Hz and associated judder, and is pin sharp when "snapped in" for perfect 1:1 pixel match.

    Am I mad even bothering to check this out?

    StooMonster
     
  23. RAMiAM

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    Stoomonster as you know I have been looking into DVI myself and read more and more that for some reason OEMs limit the signals accepted by the DVI to be 'pure' PC resolutions, usually fixed to 60Hz - go figure!
    ('Pure' is probably the wrong word but can't think of alternative right now, you know what I mean, resolutions divisibly by eight, the ones usually listed in the control panel, etc. etc.)

    The friend, that's me :)
    I've read a few other posts but haven't time to go through the bookmarks tonight. Try this one for starters:
    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=360270

    Again delving in DVI inputs it appears that some components are set to PC colour levels or/and some do not automatically adjust according to the signal being sent. The headline is DVI components should adjust colour levels depending on if the signal being transmitted is either PC or AV. Which is why the colours via DVI on my CS looked quite different to the component input. I think it was adjusting to PC levels.
    When I get more time I'll script something with the correct terminology and a bit clearer.

    Also something in the back of my mind tells me that DVI is limited to 8bit - could well be wrong though.

    Most definately :D
     
  24. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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    There we go, fellas in the USA flashing DVI blade ROMs to not only any resolution, but refresh rates too.

    RAMiAM you are a top poster. :clap: Let the quality of your post and AV knowledge be a lesson to lesser posters. :lesson:

    Hrm... Panny5 DVI ... 1366x768@60Hz and 1366x768@50Hz and 1366x768@48Hz (rude not to) please. :devil:

    You Panny6 owners, this flash works for you too!

    Yes DVI is limited to 8-bit, but then so is all MPEG source material. Only caveat is if you have a scaler outputting 10-bit, VGA is the only way to go and even then the display will probably downsample it to 8-bit the same way many downsample refresh rates to 60Hz.

    From what I understand there are video (16-235) versus PC (0-255) colour levels; where 0-255 is full 8-bit, and 16-235 is sort of but with "below black" and "above white" support.

    Interestingly the new iScan HD can output a signal in either of these formats. :)

    StooMonster

    PS: Is your car back in one piece? :smoke:
     
  25. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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    Found this on Taiwanese BB:

    Notes: generated via DVI using the TY-42TM4D "blade"

    PowerStrip timing parameters:
    1368x768p=1368,48,112,280,768,13,6,28,88227,1
    1360x768p=1360,48,120,280,768,13,6,28,88227,1


    Wonder if these are a mistaken posting and it's really a TY-42TM6D for series 6?

    StooMonster
     

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