Panasonic TX32LXD70 Poor Pic from AV Inputs

Discussion in 'Panasonic TVs Forum' started by CJTheBrave, Jan 15, 2008.

  1. CJTheBrave

    CJTheBrave
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    Anyone out there able to help an LCD noob please.

    I recently bought a Panasonic TX32LXD70. Picture from its own DVB tuner is excellent when there is decent signal. HD inputs are superb (PS3 games and Blu-Ray) through HDMI.
    HOWEVER . . . . .

    I have an SD DVD and a VirginMedia Box which I have tried through AV1, AV2 and Component (DVD only) all of which suffer from serious artefacts, mainly ripple around edges and through small high contrast areas.

    Sitting at a decent distance (8ft) this evening, with EuroSport through AV1 as RGB, all the red balls from a distance had dark diagonal ripples constantly running through them from bottom right to top left, as did other edges such as around the score line at the bottom of the screen.

    Using my DVD through Component with or without Progressive, I get ripples around all high contrast edges, which makes menus look really 'tatty', and again affects high contrast edges during playback. This also happens on the VirginMedia box menus and pictures though AV1 as RGB or SVideo, all the yellow menus 'ripple' through the black text on them.

    Where there are large objects on the screen this is not so noticeable as there are less edges, however when we have titles or menus or a multitude of small objects (such as snooker balls or footballers on a pitch) the artefacts start to take over the picture making it dreadful to watch. I have tried Comb Filter On and Off. Most of the rest of menus are default.

    THIS IS INTERESTING THOUGH . .
    I can record to my DVD hard disk directly from the DVB tuner in the TV, using a known good source, say BBC2, which is clear as can be and I watch at the same time, but when played back the image is nowhere near as good and displays these artefacts / shimmers / haloes which weren't there in the original broadcast. All this is visible on commercial / bought DVD's too.

    a) Do I have a problem with 'ALL' my external inputs / cables / equipment,
    b) Do I have a problem with the AV inputs or processing in my TV,
    c) Am I simply to expect this type of problem viewing from a standard definition AV source

    - I hope the latter isn't the case.

    Any assistance greatly appreciated - I'd like to provide pics but they are hard to take without moire patterns confusing the issue.

    Many thanks

    CJ
     
  2. honkydonky

    honkydonky
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    Try turning the sharpness down to nothing and turning all the artificial enhancers off too.
     
  3. CJTheBrave

    CJTheBrave
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    Thanks Pauleo,:)

    Reducing or turning off the sharpness does indeed reduce, to a great extent, the patterning, however I'm now watching a TV which looks out of focus so I cant really class this as an 'improvement' its just a shift from one poor picture to another. :(
    I note that the Comb Filter makes little or no difference once the sharpness is at minimum.

    So now the snooker is played with fluffy balls rather than patterned ones, the menus are blurred and I feel like I need a trip to the opticians.
    I also note, that once the sharpness is adjusted for one AV input, it uses that setting for ALL inputs even HDMI, so unless I change this back to view Blu-Ray or to play on the PS3, then the 'pin-sharp' image I've had on that source will be degraded.

    Surely the image processor is capable of producing a decent crisp picture from an AV source even if it's not HD?

    Any more thoughts? :lease:

    Thanks again for your interest.

    CJ
     
  4. honkydonky

    honkydonky
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    It took me a lot of playing around but I finally found one setup that I liked with all inputs, normal TV and PS3

    For me cinema mode is the best as the backlight does not seem to adjust automatically and don't get the annnoying flashing affect.
    Contrast 70%
    Brightness 60%
    Colour - adjust to suit
    Try adjusting the sharpness up one notch a time until you get a ahppy medium, might be that one notch is enough.
    You can adjust the settings on each picture input so you could adjust say the normal setting to the picture you like on the PS3 and then flick from normal to cinema with different sources, you can even just dynamic so it doesn't look shocking.
    Settings are so subjective its like music with treble and bass we all interpret what we like differently.
     
  5. Boogle

    Boogle
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    Ye what Pauleo said, it looks like you like a teeny bit of dare I say, over-sharpening. Just adjust the sharpness slider until you get a setting you like.

    With my Panasonic projector, if you go below a certain value with sharpening it will actually start to blur the image!
     
  6. afroylnt

    afroylnt
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    I would try borrowing a DVD player that has an hdmi output (use an hdmi cable to connect to the TV) and see if this makes a difference. I suspect you will get a better picture than you are currently experiencing from SD DVD using your existing connection options. However how much better it is hard to say which is why I recommend borrowing one first.
     
  7. CJTheBrave

    CJTheBrave
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    Thanks Guys,
    I am already on the track of a loan upscaling DVD to prove / disprove the point.:thumbsup:
    I'm not sure about the comment re "Over sharpening" I hadn't really changed the sharpness level from default, but it certainly has an adverse effect on the PS3 image so I need to either use seperate settings or find a happy medium I guess. Cinema mode appears to simply darken my picture - doesn't really have a great impact on the patterning - thanks though - it is worth playing with.
    Never thought it would be so hard to get a half decent picture out of a new telly though. Was expecting artefacts and some less clarity than my previous TV - a CRT -, but this is tricky !
    Will post an update once I've tried HDMI upscaled DVD playback tomorrow night.
    Cheers all
    CJ
     
  8. bossc@

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    Why not just use your PS3 to upscale via HDMI rather than try to source another one?
     
  9. afroylnt

    afroylnt
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    Definitely a good approach I would have thought.
     
  10. CJTheBrave

    CJTheBrave
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    Yes, that is an option and I have no problem with it, with commercial DVD's I have certainly done that, but I have a DMR-E85H Recorder, which I record to the HDD on as my main recorder from both DVB and Digibox.
    As such, ALL my recordings play back in a very inferior quality, hence my interest in an upscaling DVD player / recorder.

    Unless there are any more ideas out there of course - always open to new options.

    I am considering building a Media PC which would ultimately replace my DVD and possibly the Media Server which I currently run on my home network for MP3's and Photos.

    Cheers
    CJ
     
  11. Trat

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    I just bought a PS3: one of the best upscaling DVD and BD player ATM. Plays divx, xvids and AVCDs. There also a tool that lets you play MKVs. Its also a great photo and music playback device. Oh, its also a nice games console and it doesn't RROD!
     
  12. CJTheBrave

    CJTheBrave
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    OK so I'm here with the verdict - and another question after my investigations - as promised. . . . .

    Right - I borrowed a Technika HDMAW07 - mentioned elsewhere in these forums http://www.thedvdforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=494757 This is a £30 DVD player from Tescos with upscaling to 1080i and and both Component and HDMI outputs - cheap and cheerful so as to be fair in my tests.

    Then - to compare it with my standard definition - DMR-E85H DVD recorder, I connected it to my TV via both of the aforementioned interfaces and popped a DVD in, set the HDMI O/P to 1080i and changed NOTHING on my TV.
    What a surprise then when the picture was crystal clear on HDMI and marginally less crisp, yet very good on the component input.

    I tried old footage - 1975 Fawlty Towers - which showed considerable improvement over my older player - medium age animated content, Bugs Life and Nemo -they showed up as very crisp on HDMI particularly with virtually no artefacts, and the latest Harry Potter which was as expected excellent.:thumbsup:

    So now the question. . . .
    Why is it that a £30 DVD player from Tesco can do a far better job of upscaling 'outside' of the TV than the £700 TV can do itself internally.
    Am I missing something here??:confused:

    Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated - thanks
    CJ
     
  13. afroylnt

    afroylnt
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    If the difference is that marked it certainly is very interesting. Firstly I think that the DVD player is too cheap to provide any real upscaling itself. Normally only players costing £80 and upwards will have any significant effect in this area.

    What I suspect is that Panasonic have optimised the TV's own internal scaling ability to what will be most used connection going forward, namely, hmdi. This is the connection that will be used for high quality signals (SD DVD , HD-DDVD & Blu-ray). I doubt Panasonic can provide good scaling across all inputs for the price they are selling this TV for.

    I use a media centre PC to play DVD’s and playback recorded TV which is linked up to a Panasonic 42thpz70. So far I am very happy with it. Right now I only use the VGA connection as my existing graphics card doesn’t have hdmi but I have ordered one that does. I have found that DVD’s are not as sharp as I would have expected but that SD TV is better than I expected (again hdmi signals will produce a better image I think). Certainly the playback of recorded TV via the PC is very good and I find it hard to distinguish between what is broadcast and what is recorded. I will also be able to use a resolution of 1920 x 1280 when I have the new graphics card (TV won't need to re-scale this signal).

    On the whole I think the PC will scale the image better than the TV so make sure you if you use a media PC that you try to feed the TV a signal where it does not need to perform any re-scaling.
     
  14. HMHB

    HMHB
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    Have you got your Panasonic Recorder set correctly ? You will get best results using RGB scart.
     
  15. CJTheBrave

    CJTheBrave
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    Hi afroylnt,

    Well, you say that, but this £30 DVD did a pretty good job in my eyes, and it seems that the thread referenced above suggested that too.

    I can't use HDMI input from my older DVD as it only has SCART and Component. I would have thought that the majority of devices with HDMI outputs would provide higher definition sources anyway, so the upsaling requirements of the TV would therefore be less . . I dunno - just suggesting.

    Perhaps I'm gonna have to bite the bullet and buy an upscaling DVD recorder, but I was a little surprised just how bad the upscaling performed by the TV was. After all, the set does get very good reviews, and there are so few HD sources available at the moment, surely some of these reviews must have been looking at SD sources as well as HD and DVB?

    I agree - the PC input is very good even via the 15pin VGA/XGA input, but an HDMI source again here would be better - perhaps this is my next project instead. After all, if I buy an SD HDD DVD Recorder with upscaling, then pretty sooon, if the HD-DVD / BLU-RAY battle ends, I will be wanting to replace it with the next standard, wheras if I build a decent Media Centre PC, I can simply swap an optical drive as and when.

    Thanks for your 'input' (no pun intended)

    Oh and JohnG - Yes I have tried all sorts of settings and outputs on DVD including RGB Scart, S-Video Scart and of course the Component output, all of which produce similarly poor results, which is why I was questioning the upscaling abilities of the TV. Something don't seem 100% right to me.

    Cheers

    CJ
     
  16. afroylnt

    afroylnt
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    I think the TV scales any signal on hdmi well. It's probably the TV that is doing the good job with the scaling rather than the DVD player.

    What about a PVR with hdmi output as stop gap until you move to a media PC ?
     
  17. CJTheBrave

    CJTheBrave
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    Just a thought - if I buy an upscaling DVD player / recorder and put my VirginMedia box 'through it' - would this upscale the output for signal that had not been recorded, or would the upscaling only apply to signals that were actually being 'played' by the device in question ??

    Cheers
    CJ
     
  18. afroylnt

    afroylnt
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    Not sure. I suspect that it would not work as if you used a scart for example as the input the signal would need to be converted.

    Definitely one for the manufacturer of whatever dvd recorder / upscaler you are looking at ; as well as a detailed perusal of the user manual.........
     
  19. CJTheBrave

    CJTheBrave
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    Aye - well Panasonics manuals don't allude to this being a possibility and I guess I'm expecting a little too much with that idea.

    Perhaps I'll have to bite the bullet, oh and blindfold the wife then go and get myself the DMR-EX 77. It would fit quite nicely with my kit, just another £200 :(

    At least that way I'll get decent recordings and playback, well up to the standard of the broadacast anyway - no further degradation after that as I'll be using HDMI again.

    I guess I'd better go and have a look at a few reviews first though eh.:rolleyes:

    (That said, none of the reviews I read about the TV suggested the kind of SD issues I seem to be having with it):confused:

    Cheers
    CJ
     

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