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Panasonic TX-28PL1

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by Seb, Jan 18, 2003.

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  1. Seb

    Seb
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    I've read various threads about the vertical lines problem on Panasonic TX-28PL1 TV's - unfortunately I read them AFTER I bought the TV !

    The picture's great, however bright images and fast movements cause straight vertical lines to shift slightly to the right. This is most noticeable when watching the news (where they have a picture in picture) or a studio based programme, but hardly noticeable on other programmes or DVDs.

    Problem is very noticeable when displaying menu boxes, the right hand side of the menu in particular is not straight - it bows and blurs.

    When in 4:3 mode, I can actually see the black side bars wave and wobble up and down the screen. Also they are slightly curved at the top / bottom.

    What should I do??

    1. Reject the TV and request another ? The picture is great and I think I might stop noticing the problem + I'm worried that a replacement may be worse!

    2. Request an engineer? Can the problem be resolved?

    Help and advice appreciated.
     
  2. erbrod

    erbrod
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    I had exactly the same problems with 28PL1 - my first set was really bad, the second I still rejected, but on reflection, was one of the best sets I've seen!

    Now you've played with the set, go into any retailer and try the rest of the sets in 4:3 mode. Believe me, the Panny is not too bad. Pick a £1500 Sony and that will be far worse. I looked at a £1000 pic in pic TV, two square TV channels side by side and not a straight line in evidence. I have yet to see a flat TV set with good geometry from any manufacturer (and believe me I've tried every one in Currys, Millers, Comet and independants). Remeber, whilst you may never use 4:3 mode (I use zoom instead), its bad geometry translates into even worse geometry in 16:9.

    I have a Panny DVD player which should have lots of lovely straight edges on the menus but the right hand top seems to suffer most in bowing. Most people don't even notice the geometry, especially if you don't sit straight on to the set. Its a bit like some people notice flicker on 50Hz and some don't (I do but I can live with it as I don't like 100Hz). Since my first dabble into widescreen, I can now see every geometry flaw on every TV I ever look at!

    If you cannot live without a straight line, go an choose a 21" 4:3 curvy set. Flat, and especially widescreen, sets, simply cannot do good geometry. Panasonic will readily admit this (as they did to me) - its all to do with producing a domestic TV at an affordable price.

    Basically, if you want widescreen with great picture quality (the 28PL1 is one of the best), live with the geometry (but check other sets in shops to make sure you really haven't got a duff). Incidentally, all the reviews I've ever read report geometry as 'excellent' (any make). Either reviewers can't see the geometry flaws like I can (just watch football or horse racing results) or the reviewers are being sent 'special' review sets from the manufacturers. Seems like a conspiricy to me .........

    Regards.
     
  3. Seb

    Seb
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    Thanks Erbrod for your reply. I have checked a couple of stores and plan to do a few more this week. 1st store black bars did not wobble, 2nd store they did ! So I will check more!!

    However I do really like the pic quality and may decide to keep the set rather than get a replacement. Comet have sent me an email to say they will send an engineer out to look at the set - whether that is a good or bad think I am not sure !
     
  4. hutchingsp

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    FWIW I also have a 28PL1, it suffers from similar "problems" to those that you mentioned, but on balance I figured a replacement could be much worse, and I figured that with any new TV there's a period where you watch the picture rather than the program.

    I'm just coming out of that period to the point where I'm watching the program, and I'm pretty delighted - it is IMHO a fantastic picture for the money.

    regards
    Paul
     
  5. Seb

    Seb
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    Paul, thanks for advice - what you say is very true - at the moment I'm looking for straight lines on everything I watch !!

    Also, I checked out Dixons today and the set they had was even worse - the lines in 4:3 mode were actually bending and bowing - how they demonstrate it without customers noticing was beyond me.
     
  6. dkcph

    dkcph
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    Got my Pl1 yesterday.

    :) found the following at Google Groups - which wil let you access the servicemenu. I have made some adjustments in the servicemenu - which optimized the picture a little.

    But as mentioned in the text - be careful!

    ---
    These tips should apply to most of the current Panasonic Tvs.
    (PK,PF,D2,D2 etc blahdeblah)

    WRITE DOWN ALL THE ORIGINAL VALUES BEFORE CHANGING ANYTHING. ADJUSTMENT
    IS AT YOUR OWN RISK AND I TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY DAMAGE YOU
    INFICT ON YOUR SET ARISING FROM THESE INSTRUCTIONS.

    This one refers to the PK series but will also apply to most of the
    others.
    [older models D2/D4 etc hold down "reveal" instead of "index" in the
    service menu access mode]
    =======================================================================
    PK1 service menu access:

    Bass to max
    treble to min
    hold down "index"
    press "-" (minus) on the front of the set.

    this will get you into the service menu.(it will default to 16:9 mode
    makes things a bit tricky for 4:3 geometry but it is possible)

    coloured fastext buttons on the remote navigate left to right they are:
    back/forward/adjust up/adjust down : last two might be reversed but you
    get the idea.

    "STR" saves new value: if you modify a setting and don't press this then
    the value will go back to its previous value when you move out of it.

    "N" gets you out of the service menu.

    settings are :

    H-pos (horizontal position)
    V-pos (vertical position)
    H-amp (horizontal amplitude)
    V-amp (vertical amplitude) *the one you want probably.*
    EW-amp1(EW-amplitude coarse pincushion looks like)
    EW-amp2(EW-amplitude finer/corners looks like)
    Trapez1(Trapezium comp_ suck it and see!)
    Trapez2(finer of the above suck it and see!)
    V-lin (vertical linearity)
    V-sym (vertical symmetry used with above to sort vertical linearity !)

    You can mess about with the above settings with impunity. They are all
    fairly intuitive and relate to centring , overscan , geometry ,
    linearity and are interactive with each other. However avoid going to
    extremes on any settings (you won't need to anyway) as it might kick in
    some sort of protection and collapse the picture (thin horizontal line)
    which will probably burn the tube in about three seconds flat and you
    will no longer be able to see the service
    menu to undo your error!

    The others are:(*these ones should not be played with*)

    DVCO (take a guess at deflection voltage cut-off/correction??) : leave
    it alone you need a PAL colour bar for it to auto adjust to. (more info
    to follow )

    Cut-off (cut-off DC leave well alone)
    Ug2 (avoid like the plague)

    Hi-light & lowlight (RGB cut-off and drive adjustments for colour temp:
    leave alone unless you have a colour analyser handy and know a thing or
    two about CIE chromaticity aims) "warm" seems close to 6500K anyway : I
    intend to check grayscale tracking properly at some point.

    Sub-brightness (pedestal black level: sets lowest point on the
    brightness control basically)

    I strongly suggest that you avoid adjusting any of the the ones above as
    they are either very vague(technical) in their purpose or have the
    possibility of damaging the set or both!

    -------------------------------------
    Some advice about adjustment.

    Write down all the original values BEFORE you start adjusting things.
    this is the only way to return to the original settings if you cock
    things up.

    Don't go to extremes on ANY setting. The settings are all interactive to
    a certain extent.Proper adjustment involves ping-ponging back and forth
    between adjustments to ensure you are not over-compensating for
    something another setting is doing. Balance remember.

    Use relevant test material (Video essentials is good but remember it may
    not be 100% for a 625/50 image: its actually pretty close on the PK1 so
    don't worry about it).

    Make sure you are looking at the relevant input type before engaging the
    service menu( on the PK it looks like one lot of settings applies to
    everything: which is actually good in a way).

    When adjusting geometry I initially center the image (H-pos V-pos) then
    take off the overscan (V-amp H-amp) so I can see the edges of the image.
    Get everything pucka geometry wise (make sure all edges are straight as
    poss and the scan is linear (no bulgy distortion). Then put on the
    overscan (H-amp V-amp equally) until things start to go out of kilter
    (and they will) readjust for optimum and then more overscan etc until
    satisfied.

    Big tip: Use a ruler and or set-square (nice big ones) do not trust your
    eyes with geometry issues.

    Take your time: the geometry alone might take some time.(the concave 4:3
    takes a bit of time to fix). You may not be able to get everything
    perfect (trust me) but you should be able to improve the bowing problems
    until its unobjectionable.

    The more accurate the 16:9 adjustments are the more accurate the 4:3 is.
    But you may still need to come out of the service mode to check those
    nasty concave sides in 4:3 and pop back in to change a setting that
    fixes it (without compromising the 16:9 mode at the same time!)
     
  7. erbrod

    erbrod
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    On both my 28PL1s the picture was as good as it got and the service menu could not make it any better - there is actually very little to adjust geometry widse (unlike a good computer monitor and some other TVs). I too was watching the lines rather that the picture and I can now see bending etc on every TV I watch. I think it must be my glasses are skew as everyone thinks I'm mad.

    The sets picture is the best for the money (and better than many twice the price) and I (perhaps I am mad) have ordered another from Dixons web-site, £458 inc delivery, coming on Saturday. Basically I miss big widescreen and I haven't found a set I like better - its also be best remote of any and can work my Panny VHS and DVD. I bought from Dixons and on-line cos basically they were a) cheapest, b) you get 14 day 'no-fault' return, c) if you do want to give it back within the 14 days they collect and d) if it all goes pear shaped they have a high street presence and thus real people to shout at! If I get it and can't live with it, they can have it back without costing me anything.

    I had my previous sets from Comet and with the first set the engineer took one look and condemed. He gave me a nice talk on geometry - I acted dumb as it pays to keep those who hold the power of replacements sweet!

    Replacement was better, although not perfect. Reported to Comet again, engineer came and said was 'within' tolerance and would not swap. After a bit of a run around with Comet and saying very firmly I wanted a refund, they sent another engineer who 'against his better judgement' agreed the set was faulty. He did say our expectations were too high and gave us a little lecture on the fact - saying expensive computer screens are no better etc, but shut up when I mentioned I am an IT professional and work with even £65 screen which we can get perfect. The first engineer didn't even touch the set, the second didn't have a clue how to use it. He had to ring 'John' to find out how to get into the service menu and then had problems getting in due to 'timing'. In actual fact he was blocking the remote signal getting to the telly with his arm!!!!! He then adjusted saying it was better but on 4:3 mode it looked like a wobbly jelly.

    I hate to admit this, but the second engineer (although technically very poor) was actually right and I now regret getting rid of the set, thus the getting another ......
     
  8. dkcph

    dkcph
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    :blush: Done the same mistake several times with the remote while trying to access the servicemenu:clown:

    Any tips regarding how to optimize the geometri on the PL1 is more than welcome.

    Done som minor changes myself (brightness level etc.).

    :D :D :D Indeed af brilliant TV :D :D :D

    Got mine for £402 here in Denmark and that is including 25 % Vat!!! :p
     

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