• New Patreon Tier and Early Access Content available. If you would like to support AVForums, we now have a new Patreon Tier which gives you access to selected news, reviews and articles before they are available to the public. Read more.

PANASONIC TH-58PZ700B or Pioneer LX508D

JimmytheSaint

Established Member
Basically, I've got a budget of £3500 to upgrade the older 50 inch std res plasma to one that's 1080P. I know the Kuro Pioneer has much better blacks than the Panny, but in my experience, bigger is better and the 58 is bigger!
I've seen little to no feedback on the 58 Panny, so any owners out there that looked at going for the Pio/Panny and compared?
 

Chris5

Prominent Member
unfortunately, these perfectly sized panels convert 24Hz to 60Hz giving Region 1 DVD like judder to all bluray / HD-DVD playback. If you want panasonic 24Hz support you have to buy into the xxPF10 range.
 

Chris5

Prominent Member
even more sadly, no 58PF10, only 50 & 65".

Of what I have seen of the pioneers, I don't like the 72Hz processing as I find the picture does not flow like a panasonic.

Have a look at www.av-sales.co.uk for pricing of the 50PF10 and 65PF10
 

t72bogie

Prominent Member
Im really happy with my Panny 58 700 series - I just about watch HD DVD or Bluray exclusively - maybe theres something wrong with my eyes as Ive never seen this supposed judder you get ?

Id go and take a look at one yourself and see what you think. You can pick up the screen only for £2800 and I really cant fault the performance myself.
 

J.A.B.

Established Member
I'm struggling with the same decission for my new plasma.
Here in The Netherlands the Panasonic 58" is even much cheaper than the Pioneer LX508D and a little cheaper than the LX5080D.
The Panasonic TH-50PY70 (is the same as the TH-50PZ70) is with a pricetage of about 2100-2200 euro a real price bargain. The LX5080D (including stand and speakers) will cost about 5100 euro.

My personal opinion is that the Pioneer as reference device is too much hyped. Yes, the Pioneer shows an incredible image. But to me the image has too much contrast (has too much black) and loses shadowdetail. Also I experience the glossy glasspanel not filmlike (the moviescreen doesn't shine either).
The Panasonic gives a more filmlike picture and I found it to show more shadowdetail. The Panasonic displays also nice black, but it's different black then the Pio Kuro.
I also tested both Pioneer and Panasonic with the THX Optimizer dropshadow screen. The Panasonic displays this testscreen perfectly, the Pioneer not.

With 24fps the Panasonic internally converts to 60 Hz (3:2 pulldown). It is said that the new models that Panasonic possible will reveal on the CES2008 (as of Januari 7), will support 24 fps with a 4:4 pulldown (so converting to 96 Hz).
On the present Panasonic mild judder can indeed be seen. If you look for it, it can be annoying. But if you just enjoy the movie and not specifically look for judder, then I don't think it will distort your viewing pleasure.

So, I think the Panasonic is the better choice. 58" is really a beauty and also my choice. I just wait a few days to hear what Panasonic will do with their new line-up.
 

pjskel

Prominent Member
What distance will you be sat from the display?
I'm sorely tempted to suggest forgetting about 1080 native for your budget, and get the Fujitsu before March, when they'll bow out of the display market.
That or sit back for a while and see what the Pioneer 9's bring to the party.
 

andrewfee

Prominent Member
My personal opinion is that the Pioneer as reference device is too much hyped. Yes, the Pioneer shows an incredible image. But to me the image has too much contrast (has too much black) and loses shadowdetail. Also I experience the glossy glasspanel not filmlike (the moviescreen doesn't shine either).
The Panasonic gives a more filmlike picture and I found it to show more shadowdetail. The Panasonic displays also nice black, but it's different black then the Pio Kuro.
I also tested both Pioneer and Panasonic with the THX Optimizer dropshadow screen. The Panasonic displays this testscreen perfectly, the Pioneer not.
It can't have been set up properly. The Pioneers don't crush shadow detail. The Panasonics don't have an accurate gamma out of the box, which exaggerates shadow detail, so I can see how you came to that conclusion.
 

J.A.B.

Established Member
It can't have been set up properly. The Pioneers don't crush shadow detail. The Panasonics don't have an accurate gamma out of the box, which exaggerates shadow detail, so I can see how you came to that conclusion.
I've read many tests about the Panasonic's. All of them stating the screen has initially very good settings. Although calibration might improve.
Never I've read that shadowdetail is compromissed due to not correct gamma curve. So, how did you come to this statement?
 

JimmytheSaint

Established Member
Thanks for the response guys. :thumbsup:
I'll be seated anywhere between 9-12ft from the screen. I'm currently comfortably 12ft away from a standard res 50 inch at the moment and contrary to popular belief, I can tell the resolution differences between 720P & 1080P plasmas with HD material from this distance (have tested).
I've seen the Pio & Panny in store and was suitably impressed with both. The Pio seemed to have better black level and colour rendition, but you never know if they have been set up correctly, lighting conditions etc
The 24hz issue would annoy me to some degree, but the 65' Panny is too big, 58' would be ideal! :(
What about you Pio owners; any issues with the 72hz?
 

Chris5

Prominent Member
watch out with the pioneers, some buzz quite badly from the complaints I've read, and you have no control over whether the one you buy will buzz or not. This is ultimately the reason why I won't get one.
 

Bumtious

Banned
I've read many tests about the Panasonic's. All of them stating the screen has initially very good settings. Although calibration might improve.
Never I've read that shadowdetail is compromissed due to not correct gamma curve. So, how did you come to this statement?

Because Andrew is correct and knows what he is talking about.
 

J.A.B.

Established Member
Because Andrew is correct and knows what he is talking about.
Hi ********, I know you have a reputation regarding the settings for the Pioneer screens.
But I don't know Andrew and just your statement that he is correct is not enough for me. Can either of you show me what the gamma curve of the Panasonic screen lookes like and where it goes wrong?
And if it is not correct, can it be corrected with an ISF calibration?
 

andrewfee

Prominent Member
watch out with the pioneers, some buzz quite badly from the complaints I've read, and you have no control over whether the one you buy will buzz or not. This is ultimately the reason why I won't get one.
All plasmas buzz due to the power required to drive the screens. The fan noise from the Panasonics apparently covers this up somewhat though.

Hi ********, I know you have a reputation regarding the settings for the Pioneer screens.
But I don't know Andrew and just your statement that he is correct is not enough for me. Can either of you show me what the gamma curve of the Panasonic screen lookes like and where it goes wrong?
And if it is not correct, can it be corrected with an ISF calibration?
I don't have any data on a Panasonic anymore. I do know that the Pioneers have a wonderfully flat 2.2 gamma though, and with plenty of people saying that shadow details are easier to make out on the Panasonics, along with Vincent from HDTVtest telling me how gamma was "not good" on the last Panasonic he reviewed, with Panasonic selling a PZ750 in the states that has a "studio reference mode" and with there not being any gamma controls on the set, it's not hard to come to that conclusion.

I'm not saying that the Panasonics are bad at all, but the Pioneers most certainly do live up to the "reference" status that they have earned. That doesn't make them perfect, and I can't say how they compare to the AVIAMOs but they are by far one of the most accurate HDTVs on the market right now.
 

J.A.B.

Established Member
I don't have any data on a Panasonic anymore. I do know that the Pioneers have a wonderfully flat 2.2 gamma though, and with plenty of people saying that shadow details are easier to make out on the Panasonics, along with Vincent from HDTVtest telling me how gamma was "not good" on the last Panasonic he reviewed, with Panasonic selling a PZ750 in the states that has a "studio reference mode" and with there not being any gamma controls on the set, it's not hard to come to that conclusion.

I'm not saying that the Panasonics are bad at all, but the Pioneers most certainly do live up to the "reference" status that they have earned. That doesn't make them perfect, and I can't say how they compare to the AVIAMOs but they are by far one of the most accurate HDTVs on the market right now.

Hi Andrew,
Vincent has this conclusion on his Panasonic test:
> Excellent black level and shadow detail
I can't find anything in this test saying that the gamma is not correct.

But still, it might be so as you stated.

An American ISF consultants has written this in his blog about a 50PZ700:
This display is not only one of the best plasma panels available today, it is also by far the best value. The only brand at this level is the Pioneer Elite line and you'll pay more than double the price for the same screen size.
... I was also able to improve gamma and black levels by working the sub-brightness adjustment.....

But perhaps Pioneer is better in some aspects. For me the Panasonic gave an absolute beautiful filmlike picture.
 

J.A.B.

Established Member
Today I saw a few Blu-ray Discs on both the Panasonic 58" and the Pioneer 60". The player's output was 1080/24P.

The Panasonic displayed just a small hint of judder. It was hardly noticeble. :thumbsup:

The Pioneer did it bad, the image had visible judder. That I don't understand.
The player used was the Pioneer BDP-LX70 and 24P output was enabled. The LX608 image was 1080p - Dot by dot.
In the settingsmenu only the Pure Cinema option OFF option could be choosen. All others were greyed out. That would indicated the output was not 1080/24P but probably 1080/60P. But that I don't understand, because in the player setup 24P output was enabled. Because I tried a few disc, and all of them did the same, I don't think it can be the discs. So what went wrong?
 

Bumtious

Banned
Today I saw a few Blu-ray Discs on both the Panasonic 58" and the Pioneer 60". The player's output was 1080/24P.

The Panasonic displayed just a small hint of judder. It was hardly noticeble. :thumbsup:

The Pioneer did it bad, the image had visible judder. That I don't understand.
The player used was the Pioneer BDP-LX70 and 24P output was enabled. The LX608 image was 1080p - Dot by dot.
In the settingsmenu only the Pure Cinema option OFF option could be choosen. All others were greyed out. That would indicated the output was not 1080/24P but probably 1080/60P. But that I don't understand, because in the player setup 24P output was enabled. Because I tried a few disc, and all of them did the same, I don't think it can be the discs. So what went wrong?

Drive mode 3 needs to be selected on the tv's option menu, the LX70 has to be set to source direct as well as 24p being enabled. Then you can select advanced from the pure cinema menu.

Simply the LX70 was NOT out putting 24p if you had no options in the pure cinema menu.
 

MR2Harvey

Established Member
I'm really interested in a 58" plasma to upgrade my Hitachi 42". Does anyone else have views on this size and particularlly the Panasonic TH-58PZ700B ?

Also will Panasonic do a full HD 58" commercial panel as I do not need sound or built in freeview tunner, or Scart sockets etc etc.

Come on people you know 58" is the right size and now it's well under £3K so within reach of many of us on here. Let's talk about it :)


Harv
 

J.A.B.

Established Member
Earlier I reported on the difference in the way the Pioneer and the Panasonic displayed the THX Optimizer dropshadow testscreen.

I learned the following.
The Panasonic displayed a good distinction between the black background and the below black dropshadow behind the word THX. It is the way this screen should look according to THX. :thumbsup:
The Pioneer had just a little difference between the black background and the below black dropshadow. The black background is almost as black as the drophadow. But around the dropshadow is a small brighter flair. :eek:
Normally the brightness should be set lower, so you won't see the black dropshadow. But my point is, that the Pioneer seems to display the black background blacker than it should be. This ofcourse makes better blacks, but I suppose their must be a downside to this? :confused:
 

Speedoguy

Prominent Member
I'm really interested in a 58" plasma to upgrade my Hitachi 42". Does anyone else have views on this size and particularlly the Panasonic TH-58PZ700B ?

Also will Panasonic do a full HD 58" commercial panel as I do not need sound or built in freeview tunner, or Scart sockets etc etc.

Come on people you know 58" is the right size and now it's well under £3K so within reach of many of us on here. Let's talk about it :)


Harv

According to reports on avsforums a 58" in the PF line is due out around March/April time - so possibly same for us as usually panasonic are pretty well in line with us with realeases of new models.Probablty woth noting what they show at the upcoming CES show in Vegas (jan7 -10)
 

MR2Harvey

Established Member
According to reports on avsforums a 58" in the PF line is due out around March/April time - so possibly same for us as usually panasonic are pretty well in line with us with realeases of new models.Probablty woth noting what they show at the upcoming CES show in Vegas (jan7 -10)

Excellent I will probably want to wait until then anyhow. Do you think the PF panel would be a better option? I like panels as they tend to be slightly smaller with less sounding the glass, no speakers.
 

Speedoguy

Prominent Member
Excellent I will probably want to wait until then anyhow. Do you think the PF panel would be a better option? I like panels as they tend to be slightly smaller with less sounding the glass, no speakers.

As you don't require speakers, tuner etc then I'd say its your best bet for sure.Just add whatever input boards you require.They also appear to offer more options for picture settings/calibration etc.Also I think i'm right in saying the PF range have the 24p/judder issue sorted if your someone that sees that issue.
 

punkymunky

Established Member
I still can't understand the hype around the Pioneer Kuro range or indeed any Pioneer I have seen over the last few years. I've not seen one that lives up to the hype or can hold a candle to the Panasonic range. I had a look at a 50PZ next to an LX508 today and the Pioneer looked truly awful in comparison, where can I see one that will blow my socks off??? It can't be my eyes because I acknowledge the best screen I have seen by far is the Fujitsu 58 series particularly with SD content.
 

The latest video from AVForums

Is 8K TV dead? Philips OLED+907, Pioneer LX505 AVR plus B&W 700 S3 Reviews & Visit + AV/HiFi News
Subscribe to our YouTube channel
Support AVForums with Patreon

Top Bottom