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Panasonic TH-50PHD8 pixel mapping

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by davsdu, Oct 10, 2005.

  1. davsdu

    davsdu
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    I'm getting my 50" screen within a few days. :)
    Therefore I would appreciate, if somone could provide a reasonable thorough explanation as to how I get 1:1 pixelmapping with this display. Im going to use my pc for HDTV clips and my DVDO HD+ scaler for DVD's and tv.

    Thank you in advance :thumbsup:
     
  2. davsdu

    davsdu
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    anyone?
     
  3. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
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    - Set scaler and PC for 1366 x 768 @ 60Hz

    - Bring up test pattern to show absolute edges of image coming out of scaler/PC (something like an overscan pattern, or block of solid colour or something)

    - Use plasma pos/size controls to adjust the output of the scaler/pc to be exactly 1:1 with the pixels on the plasma. Should end up that one click say to the left will cause the image to shift left one pixel and leave a row of blank ones on the right of the screen. Same for all other directions and you know you are spot on.

    If you haven't got the scaler yet either it would be a lot easier to get it from a dealer who can set it up with the plasma for you!! And maybe recommend you get a Lumagen ;)
     
  4. davsdu

    davsdu
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    Thanks for the answer!
    This might be a dumb question; when you get 1:1 pixelmapping @ 1366 x 768 @ 60Hz, will it also work for other refreshrates? (eg. 50Hz).
    And which refreshrate should i choose?
     
  5. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
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    Using analogue VGA it will work at 50Hz, but not using DVI. DVI is 60Hz only.

    You ideally want to use 50Hz for 50Hz material (PAL TV, PAL DVD) and 60Hz for 60HZ stuff (NTSC DVDs). The processor will have some kind of auto-switching once properley setup so you don't have to think about it! The PC HD clips will all be 60Hz no doubt.
     
  6. madshi

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    Liam, do you have experience with 48Hz on Panasonic plasmas? I've recently read (what I didn't know before) that Panasonic plasmas are supposed to have support for a 48Hz frame buffer. Of course that makes sense only for 24fps movies. But still, sounds like a great solution, if it really works.
     
  7. davsdu

    davsdu
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    I'm planning to use the VGA port.
    So once I have setup the screen for 1:1 pixel mapping @ 50hz, it will also have 1:1 pixel mapping when playing NTSC movies?
    Does a plasma "flicker" @ 50 hz like a CRT does?
     
  8. philgreeen

    philgreeen
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    Anyone seen a comparison of the Lumagen and the Iscan HD+ and/or VP30 ?
     
  9. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
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    Gordon has had a play with 48Hz on his Panasonic, can't remember if he stuck with it or not. I've not had a go, but if I get time I'll rig it up here.

    Pixel mapping you will need a 50Hz and a 60Hz setting ideally. Both will always be "1:1", but if you are viewing 50Hz DVD (PAL) with a 60Hz output there will be frc (frame rate conversion) judder.

    Lumagen VisionDVI beats the iScan HD+, VisionHDP and ProHDP are no contest. But I don't know for the VP30. VP30 gives the 4 HDMI etc which can prove very useful, but I still don't think it is anywhere near the Lumagen in terms of other features (gamma adjustment, colour error repair, multitude of input/output memories, 1080i inverse telecine, interlaced HDMI etc etc).
     
  10. philgreeen

    philgreeen
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    Anyone know how the UK prices compare?
     
  11. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello all

    davsdu - I'd suggest if you want to get the best out of your proposed system you either order it from a supplier that offers a full service including pre delivery inspection and configuration plus a follow up visit to configure and calibrate with your source devices or call in the experts once you have your system set up.

    Getting 1:1 mapping working at 50hz and 60Hz is one small part of ensuring you have everything working correctly.

    philgreen - UK SRP's are as follows:
    DVDO iScan VP30 - £1,350.00
    DVDO iScanHD+ £1,005.00

    Lumagen VisionProHDP - £1,950.00
    Lumagen VisionHDP - £1,295.00
    Lumagen VisionDVI - £798.00

    The VP30 has still to arrive so no time to put it through its paces with a range of Displays as yet.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  12. davsdu

    davsdu
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    Thanks for your reply Joe.
    There is no doubt that I will have the screen calibrated. However, I still want to know how it works ;)
    Please forgive my basic questions:

    1. Once it has been set to native res. @ 50 Hz it will be native as well when I feed it with 60 Hz?

    2. Does a plasma "flicker" like a CRT tv @ 50 Hz?
     
  13. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello davsdu

    The Display has a 'per signal' memory - if you Input 1366x768P(60Hz) on RGBHV it will load up one memory and if you Input 1366x768P(50) also on RGBHV it will load up a second memory; so you need to make adjustments for each signal type you Input.

    If you have more than one 'same type' Source signal you are better off using an external Video Processor that has more than one 'same type' Input so you can make 'Per Input' adjustments within the Video Processors set-up (assuming you choose a processor that allows this feature).

    A few of the Video Processors come with Test Patterns pre installed and if you choose carefully you will find one with 'Every Other Horizontal' and 'Every other Vertical' test patterns; use these in conjunction with the Displays sizing feature and you can achieve 1:1 mapping without too much hassle.

    I don't find the better Plasma Displays suffer from flicker - keep in mind that whilst you may be Inputting 50Hz you may not be seeing it back at 50Hz.

    I think you are mixing up what the Display is doing and what your Sources are doing - the Display reacts to your source signal; if its your PC you'll need to set the PC to Output 1366x768P at 50Hz and 60Hz depending on your source material.

    If you have decent Firmware in your Video Processor the Processor will Output your desired 'Optimum' signal depending on what you have configured it to do with any Input signal it sees; once you set up these parameters in the Video Processor and ensure the Display has been adjusted on a per signal basis everything will work automatically.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  14. davsdu

    davsdu
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    Which setup screen would you recommend to test for 1:1 mapping? I have used the ones in DVDO HD+, but I'm having a little difficulty to nail it down precisely.
     
  15. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello davsdu

    The built in pattern should be fine - if your not getting the display to lock into it you may need to go into the Displays Service Menu and makes sizing and positioning adjustments in there.

    It may also be you need to adjust some timing parameters on the DVDO's DVI Output - now that can be fun :)

    Best regards

    Joe

    PS If you purchased the Display and Processor from one dealer they really should have set up 1:1 Pixel mapping for you!!!
     
  16. davsdu

    davsdu
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    I bought it from two seperate dealers.
    Im feeding the PHD8 with component through VGA.
    Im using the DVDO's pattern; kinda looks like this:
    [​IMG]

    And I get it pretty close to that. However, it is difficult to see if I have hit the 1:1 mapping 100% since several "clicks" on the ver. or hor. size setting on the PHD8, look the same.
    I hope you understand what I mean, kinda hard to describe :)

    (and yes I will have someone visiting me later on - next month - to calibrate the set. I just want to try and get my hands dirty myself :) )
     
  17. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
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    If you bring up a blank colour pattern (e.g. a full screen of white), it should be exactly 1024x768 (or 1366x768 depending on display) "big" if you will. If you use POSITION controls to move it around on the plasma (usually off of the left or right of the screen) you will see where the edges of the scalers output are and if the plasma processor is perhaps stretching it bigger than it should be.

    When moving it around you will get an idea of how much to adjust in the SIZE controls, so keep flicking between the adjustments to move the block of colour left and right, and to shrink or largen it to fit the screen. When you have it spot on (i.e moving one click to the left causes the farthest right column of pixels to go blank and vice versa) then go to the stripey lines pattern to test for 1:1 matching. Here you should be able to identify each line sharply rather than see a fuzzy group of thicker and thinner lines.

    If you don't have 1:1, even though the exact output size is matching the exact display position, then you need to get involved with altering the output timings on the scaler. This is where you adjust the front and rear porches, and sync width, which denote how much of the total signal (which is the active area plus blanking) is active and in what proportions to the total signal, and whereabouts within the total signal.... And this is why you buy the scaler and plasma from a single source who can set it up for you!!!! (sorry, had to drop that little I-told-you-so in!)
     
  18. Joe Fernand

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    Hello Liam

    We need a new Smiley just for us 'Retailers' to use :)

    davsdu - you say 'Component through VGA' - I'd try RGBHV via VGA its bound to look sharper than YUV.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  19. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
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    It would have to be one that starts as a mess of pixels then comes together perfectly pixel matched!!!!
     
  20. davsdu

    davsdu
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    Succes! After switching to RGB there were no problems getting it done (just showing the big difference between component and rgb). Vertical and horizontal are looking spot on! However, I have a testpattern on the DVDO called "checkboard" which is horizontal and vertical. With this pattern I get a flicker (like a 50hz crt tv) in the top left half of the screen. I have tried chaning clock phase, but it doesnt help. The flicker does not appear in any other testpattern and - as far as I can tell at the moment - can not be seen during regular movie playback. Any good advise as to how I can correct this or is it a limitation of the plasma?
     
  21. davsdu

    davsdu
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    Anyone?
     
  22. Joe Fernand

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    davsdu

    Does either of the suppliers that supplied your kit have ANY input on how you configure it :)

    Joe
     
  23. Liam @ Prog AV

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    I haven't got a clue I'm afraid. Could be that you aren't actually pixel matched??? As Joe says though, who exactly sold you this on the basis that you've got to work the whole thing out yourself??!! You might want to contact Owl video, actually scratch that, contact DVDO directly and see if they can help http://dvdo.com/faq/index.php .
     
  24. davsdu

    davsdu
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    So the phd8 does not display 50hz even though it is fed with a 50hz signal?
     
  25. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    I would just concerntrate with the V and H line pattern, if the flicker doesn't appear in any other pattern there may be a problem with the pattern?

    The PHD will show 50Hz at 50Hz, I think Joe was pointing out no all screens do though.
     
  26. madshi

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  27. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    madshi, you are correct, the Panny does a quasi 100Hz but it does not convert to 75hz or even worse 60Hz or 56hz or somthing silly.
     
  28. madshi

    madshi
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    Yep, luckily it doesn't do silly things like that! :smashin:
     
  29. mine

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    hey giz !

    didn´t I mention the slight flicker with 50 Hz..... in another thread :)

    its clever surpressed and hardly noticeable, but if you sit in front of 2 eizo tfts
    you can see it ( timings are correct).

    mine
     
  30. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    Well I have to say I was watching TV the other night and that is the first time I saw some flicker on any plasma I have owned, it was on a bright sky and I have not seen it since but I did notice it at the time.
     

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