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Panasonic PW6 made in China?

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by chalkdust, Jun 17, 2004.

  1. chalkdust

    chalkdust
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    I have just picked up my Plasma and it is marked on the box Made in China? I always thought Panasonic was a premium Japanese company.
     
  2. MAW

    MAW
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    Yes, I always thought that too, but all the ones I've sold have had that on the box. Mind you, it could be worse, Pioneer 43" plasmas have 'Made in Britain' on the box :D
     
  3. chalkdust

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    This is very worrying, I have a Panny LCD projector that is made in Japan and a Canon camcorder also made in Japan. I have had japanese items that have been assembled in Singapore (obviously using components manufactured in Japan). These plasma's are manufactured in China, so using what is broadly believed to be goods manufactured to a price, not to spec. Would cut price components be used? Are chinese manufactured components inferior/superior to Japanese ones? Can anyone with other premium products from premium Japanese companies confirm if their products are made in China/Japan? Are these the same manufacturers of Daewoo and other not so well known manufacturers. Personally I would prefer a Japanese product. Should we be paying premium prices for Chinese manufactured units?
     
  4. rscott4563

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    Just checked and my month old Panasonic 50" PHW is made in Japan....

    Is this a sign that Panasonic are moving some of the lower end stuff to chinese manufacture, very worrying if true, especially with something as expensive and delicate as a plasma! :rolleyes:
     
  5. chalkdust

    chalkdust
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    This brings to mind a recent difference of opinion I had with the philips GB arm. I had a problem with my DVD recorder and the retailer told me it had to be sent to Belgium (Philips are a Dutch concern, I think) to be fixed. I was just bemused that the GB contingent of such a big company could not source engineers in GB to service these units as they are Premium products and only Belgium had the appropriate qualified engineers to work on such complex units. If they can be manufactured in Taiwan and sold under a Japanese brand name, I wouldn't touch a Panasonic product, why not buy an unbranded plasma for half the money, and probably end up with the same model. Surely Panasonic cannot get away with this, have any retailers enquired about these units not being Japanese products, in the true sense of the word.
     
  6. realitybites

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    Surely if this is the case you have bought in good faith, contact the retailer and see if all the plasma's have been the same product. If not surely you can get a japanese sourced one. It seems very strange that such a big manufacturer would have to have these made outside the country, are you sure it is not a Panaphonics :rotfl:
     
  7. Starburst

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    Why would anyone be surprised if even high end kit was sourced from state of the art manufacturing plants which just happen to be located in China or other low wage countries?
    Japan does not have a cheap source of labour and Nissan (Sunderland) has proved other countries workers can do just as good a job, I would find it quite remarkable that any mainstream company could ignore the savings to be made by moving production even after the expense of building new plant.
    It's not about the location it's all about the technology and r&d that went into the design and as long as in this case Panasonic lay down the specs could anyone without the aid of a sticker/label tell the difference between official panels made in Japan and others from China?
     
  8. MAW

    MAW
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    Starburst, I'd agree, hence my somewhat tongue in cheek reply. But, there have been a number of problems with PW6 plasmas not encountered on previous Japanese built panels. Might of course just be coincidence, they do happen.
     
  9. rscott4563

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    Its down to the fact that its been well proven that far east manufacturers who produce in Japan have products which are generally of a better more reliable build quality than those produced on mainland China, even when a manufacturer has sites in different countries they normally make their better equipment in Japan and source the cheaper end stuff to China..

    Ryan
     
  10. johndon

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    There was an article in last months Digital Home mag about the manufacture of AV gear in China. If I remember correctly, Wharfdale (among many others) now manufacture in China.

    The was a quote from a guy from Yamaha who said that cost is a real issue, the example he gave was that he sees the price point for amps coming down to £149 and he pointed out he paid more for a pair or glasses which, as he pointed out, is just two bits of glass and some plastic.

    The article also said that many of the Chinese plants are the equal in terms of quality of any manufacturing plant in the world.

    John
     
  11. GoldFish

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    :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

    sorry johndon just can't help
     
  12. chalkdust

    chalkdust
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    E-mailed Panasonic and got this reply:

    Ref : CQI2731
    Text :
    I have just purchased a 42pwd6bx plasma screen for a substantial amount of
    money. I have had products previously from Panasonic TV, LCD projector
    among
    them. All previous items have been manufactured in Japan. I was horrified
    after
    arranging the purchase of this particular screen to discover it was
    MANUFACTURED in China. I have posted about this on an Internet forum but
    everyone seems mystified. To be honest, If I'd wanted a plasma manufactured
    in
    China I would have got a much less expensive one. I'd always associated
    yourselves with products manufactured in Japan and the expertise and
    quality
    control that went with it. Regardless of reassurances that the product
    would
    not differ from the one manufactured in Japan, I find this hard to believe.

    Looking forward to your comments

    ISSUE RESOLUTION:

    Thank you for your e-mail enquiry.

    A plasma panel manufactured in China would comprise of the exact same
    components as one manufactured in Japan. It would also carry the same
    quality assurance. There is absolutely no reason to believe that by
    manufacturing a product in China, it would be of substandard quality.
    However if you are unhappy with the origin of your unit I would advise you
    to return it to your retailer although please be aware that they are under
    no obligation to refund or exchange the unit as it is not faulty.

    I trust that the above information will be of assistance to you. However,
    of course, if you should have any further queries, please do not hesitate
    to contact us on 08705 357357 or customer.care@panasonic.co.uk and we will
    endeavour to assist.

    Customer Support
     
  13. rscott4563

    rscott4563
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    Well they would say that wouldn't they....
     
  14. Ekko Star

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    Every product I have bought or seen "Made in Japan" is of the highest quality. Without question the products manufactured over there are of premium build quality compared to elsewhere in the world, even the same product and same manufacturer. Japanese work ethics and pride of their work comes into play.

    Any manufacturer can ready produce components, in order to be assembled more locally to their end markets. However, anything the master craftsmen produces of his own hands will in no doubt more likely be better built than that of someone he's taught.

    Now I'm in the market for a 42PE30 Plasma, you can guss how dismayed I was to read on the back, Made in Spain and Assembled in Czech Republic. :eek: Has put me right off.
     
  15. MAW

    MAW
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    You don't want one of those anyway mate. Consider it a sign.
     
  16. beatbox

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    Where do you draw the line, perhaps some of the capacitors in a Japanese panel are made in China, and perhaps the electrolite will leak out of them and trash it like PC motherboards a while back.

    All the wafer fabs are going to China & Taiwan, the semiconductors in your panel could be made anywhere, assembling a panel is easier than making the chips.

    Manufacturers think all we want is cheap, I dont know where it ends !
     
  17. rags

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    So what if its made in China ? Probably has a low failure rate and does the job it was designed for quite well. Half of this stuff is automated anyway and they will probably be using the same or similar machines in both Japan and China.

    Not sure what all the fuss is about - its not as if the Chinese ones perform to a lower level than the Japanese ones.
     
  18. Ekko Star

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    Manufacturers know we want it cheap and so they have to build it cheap. that's why this sort of thing is happening.

    They will build it better in Japan than somewhere like Spain or Czech Republic or China, sorry but that's just how it is. Also it will be built to the more demanding consumer standards set in Japan. One of the criteria for overseas assembly is simply the cost of manufacture and that is firmly adhered to. Cheap labour, cheap manufacturing costs, cheaper distribution...however you pay peanuts and you know what you get......

    "without compromise to the technical spec of the product" is what they'll tell you.
     
  19. rags

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    I have had some Japanese manufactured products that have had pretty shoddy build. This isnt a car with loads of moving parts...

    Anyhow id rather have a Chinese built plasma for £2k than pay £3k for the exact same thing but with a made in Japan stamp on it. I guess when it comes to cold hard cash most people will go the same way.
     
  20. Ekko Star

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    Think that sums it up nicely. If your happier to pay £2k for the same product they will strive to make it for that and cut the costs where they can.
     
  21. Joe Fernand

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    Hello all

    So everyone demands a £2k (or less) high quality 42" Plasma Display and now that Panasonic (Matsu****a) deliver it you want to complain that's its not assembled in your favourite assembly plant :)

    I've never seen a single piece of literature pertaining to the current or previous generation Panasonic Displays that says anything about where they are assembled.

    No matter where they are assembled/manufactured I'd judge any display on the quality of the image it produces, any history of poor reliability and what service and backup you get from your supplier and the manufacturer.

    As sales of the Panasonic units have increased over the past three years I cant say I've seen a trend towards a higher percentage of problematic units - I'd say these Displays are way more reliable (relatively) than any other piece of Consumer technology! Try and purchase a decent flat tube CRT TV; they are all so 'built to a price' that they fail on so many fronts.

    The plasma manufacturers seem to me to be managing to bring the cost of ownership down big style and keep the supply/quality threshold about the same.

    Matsu****a is a Global company and I'm sure we'll see more and more of Japans big electronics companies 'outsourcing' production - though keep in mind your average Plasma Production plant costs about 90 Billion yen; I've not seen any 'cut price' PDP manufacturing plants for sale.

    Talk of 'Made in Japan' Displays would seem to be a good Marketing tool if some of the big boys are smart - Limited Edition Hand Built 'Signature' Displays at a 200% Price Premium sounds about right; in fact they already have this concept in the US with Pioneer Elite.

    Best regards

    Joe

    See http://www.japancorp.net/Article.Asp?Art_ID=7327
     
  22. Ekko Star

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    Well personally, maybe I'm against the norm, I don't mind paying more to get a better quality, better built product, I'm not for one looking for cheapest to do the job or if it has the badge on the front that'll do for me. In actual fact the label on the back means as much to me as the label on the front. If I'm spending over £2k on gear I'd rather pay a little bit more to make sure it's the best if it came to it.

    In my experience, electronic goods manufactured in Japan have tended to be far superior and reliable than goods made in China or farmed out to manufacture country's. Simply made to more exacting standards. But that's only my experience.

    I think the question to ask is if the same product was offered to you at the same price and one was made in Japan and one in Spain or wherever which one would you want to walk out the shop with and why ?
     
  23. fatbob

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    It's even worse than that............much, much worse. :(

    The Pioneer plasma I was looking at in John Lewis at the weekend had a sticker on the back marked "Made in Indonesia". :(
     
  24. chalkdust

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    Ekko star, you've hit the nail on the head. The Japanese work ethic is second to none. You know they take pride in their work and this is reflected in the finished article. Made in Taiwan has always been associated with cheap knock offs and shoddily made goods. If I were to make a parachute jump with the choice of a Japanese parachute or a Made in Taiwan parachute, I know which one I'd be putting on my back. Better check my plasma as I haven't opened it yet, Panaphonics here I come.
     
  25. chalkdust

    chalkdust
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    Not sure how to start a poll, but it would be interesting to see which Japanese manufacturers have bitten the bullet and what I firmly believe is compromise their standing in the Electronics market in order to compete with the likes of Daewoo. Do Hitachi, Pioneer, JVC, Fuji, etc do the same thing?
     
  26. MAW

    MAW
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    I've got 11 fujis in the store, all say 'made in Japan'. They do tend to be a bit more expensive than Panasonic etc.....
     
  27. realitybites

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    When the Made in Taiwan Beamers and Mercs start rolling of the production lines, who is gonna want one?
     
  28. Matt Horne

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    Use you plasma and enjoy... stop worrying about where they have the factory..you get a warranty with the screen.. if you have issues talk to your dealer.

    I cannot believe that we are getting snobby as to which country the product has been put together in.. these are global companies churning out millions of items for a global marketplace... if everything was made only in Japan.. plasmas would still cost >5k where as now yo can get a panasonic screen for just over 2K.

    But hey if your not happy and the dealer will not take it back I offer a fiver for that chinese panel :)

    Matt
     
  29. Starburst

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    Don't Mercedes have a plant in Brazil churing out high end motors that can/are sold all over the world.
    I remember seeing a piece on Top Gear of Fifth Gear (one of them anyway) and yes they were not happy, you pay £50k then you want it built in Germany by Germans or at least Turks who live in Germany!

    My Honda was made in America, the engine came from Swindon and the profits went to Japan, does it really matter these days?
    Oh, my Pioneer D2011 was made in Indonesia but I have no worries about any AV kit with the Pioneer badge on, if I trust the brand then I trust the product:)
     
  30. Liam @ Prog AV

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    Sticking on the subject of cars take all the variations of VW's Golf. The VW Golf, Audi A3, Skoda whatever it is and SEAT Ibiza all featured in the Top Gear Motoring Survey 2003 (survey for reliability etc) the Skoda had the best reliability record of the four and the VW the worst!!!! The Spanish built SEATs did quite well too (not all of them mind). In fact three VWs were in the 90-100 bracket whereas Skoda got one top ten and another top twenty. And this was an actual reliability test not someone's opinion on different nation's ability to manufacture a product. So the Germans who designed the car and the parts made the most unreliable version...

    The conclusion I draw from this is that you can't draw a conclusion based on where a product is made. Relating back to the Panasonic point you cannot know how well Panasonic have implemented their management style at the China plant - for all we know it might actually offer the more reliable units! The Chinese might love the extra 5p a day they get plus the nice shiny new Plasma factory they get to work in. There is not one iota of evidence to suggest one way or another, just opinion based on irrelevant historic experience

    My 2c
     

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