Panasonic plasmas vs LCDs - is it just me?

[someuser08]

I was very impressed with all the reviews of TX-P42G10/V10 plasmas that I went to my local JL store to check them in action. They did not unfortunately have V10 (promised to have it on a display within a week though) so I ended up only looking at G10. I have to say that I was rather disappointed to say the least. They looked quite dull comparing to almost everything they had in the shop.

I must admit I never had plasmas before, but I know that comparing them side by side with LCD TVs in bright conditions won't do them any justice, so I was prepared to let that go, however I discovered something else in the process. G10 had incredibly soft picture. After spending quite a bit of time in front of it I went to check out 7th series LED based Samsungs (UE-B7020 in particular) and was really blown away by the difference. Even if don't take brightness/colours into account (even though I did find Samsung colours a bit over the top, it did look quite amazing) there is a world of difference in resolution between them.

Maybe its just because I spend 10+ hours a day in front of high-end 24'' computer monitor (with HD resolution) and I used to watching HD material on it as well, but I find Panasonics plasmas not really comparable to LCDs in terms of details when watching HD material. I know I won't be sitting to the TV that close but not that far either (not more than 7ft) and sharpness difference is very obvious at that distance.

I'm still willing to have a go at watching V10 model in THX mode, but I'm sure that won't bring in any more details. So is plasma not really for me? Should I be looking at LCDs if I want more resolution and actually plan to watch HD material from a PC via HDMI (both Blurays and Freesat)?

 

[scodav]

definitaly get a pansonic plasma m8 with have 6 of them in our house and there the best tvs have ever owned dont mind watchin any of them what size are you after to

 

[someuser08]

Well, while I appreciate any advice however simple it might be, I still need to convince myself that what I see is indeed better. I'm struggling with that at the moment, so looking at any suggestions about how to look at this from a different prospective

 

[Monarch]

If they were displaying an SD feed then the G10 does have slightly soft scaling (not as much as last years PZ80s), this actually works to their advantage in SD feeds though. There is an argument that LCDs have slightly sharper images than plasmas but I don't see why people make such a huge deal of it, in my experience of testing LCDs next to plasmas side by side in dim-ish lighting is that the excessive brightness effectively 'shines' the LCD to the same level of visible detail, which obviously wont be the case in a bright shop. And resolution is only one small factor in picture quality, people say that LCDs are better for all HD material because they're sharper...what about better black levels, richer and more natural colours, better motion and general increased depth of picture? I know the Samsung LED sets close the gap on quite a few of those things but I can't say they've impressed me enough to recommend them for the price they're going for, and I don't think that i could live with the dimming flicker (can't remember the technical term) myself.

Make your own decision of course but a plasma is 10 times better in a home than in a shop

 

[rewerb]

Well, while I appreciate any advice however simple it might be, I still need to convince myself that what I see is indeed better. I'm struggling with that at the moment, so looking at any suggestions about how to look at this from a different prospective

Nont worry about it mate. If you prefer LCD that's fine. Your eyes, your choice.

 

[someuser08]

There is an argument that LCDs have slightly sharper images than plasmas but I don't see why people make such a huge deal of it, in my experience of testing LCDs next to plasmas side by side in dim-ish lighting is that the excessive brightness effectively 'shines' the LCD to the same level of visible detail, which obviously wont be the case in a bright shop.

That is something that I didn't know (i.e. that there is much more details on plasmas in dim conditions). I thought its just general colours/balance is not that good under bright light...

I know the Samsung LED sets close the gap on quite a few of those things but I can't say they've impressed me enough to recommend them for the price they're going for, and I don't think that i could live with the dimming flicker (can't remember the technical term) myself.

Well I dismissed Samsungs originally after reading first reviews, but then service menu tip came up and I saw it in the shop and it does look very good to me.

 

[someuser08]

Nont worry about it mate. If you prefer LCD that's fine. Your eyes, your choice.

I'm just afraid I'm not looking at it the right way! That's why I posted in the plasma forum and not LCD

 

[Boris360]

Nont worry about it mate. If you prefer LCD that's fine. Your eyes, your choice.

I know where he's coming from though. It's not quite as simple as just going with what you see because he, like me, might give a lot of credence to the experience and technical knowledge of people on these boards.

for example, It seems almost universally accepted amongst AV experts that the Pioneer Kuro is better than the new Samsung LEDs. But I (and maybe the OP) stand in front of these panels and try to work out how such a mind-blowingly detailed image as the Samsung with Bluray, could be considered inferior to the softer looking Pioneer.

I went to a shop to show my wife the TV we were getting a few months ago, it was a 42" Kuro, she didn't like it because she said the white looked "a dirty grey colour". She then became transfixed with an LCD playing bluray because it looked razor sharp. I couldn't explain why the KURO was better because, on the quiet, I too was more impressed with the LCD. We didn't buy the Kuro. I need punching in the face - Hard!

Now I know a bit more about TVs, I'd now give my right arm for the 42" Kuro but it's no longer available.

 

[Piers]

someuser08,

Given that you are sitting watching a high-end computer monitor for many hours a day you know what it can do at close viewing distances. You probably aren't watching moving video images on it. There is a world of difference between good computer monitor screens and good video monitors.

I would go for an LCD monitor for computer use but wouldn't for TV / blu-ray.

Plasma displays are usually set up for display with default settings. These settings can make the display look "better" than the competitor plasma displays under the typical strip lighting. Resolution shouldn't be the issue but if the settings are optimised for the showroom you may not be seeing what the display is capable of.

I calibrate screens for a living and I have yet to see an LCD screen that beats the best of the plasma panels. Don't write off plasma on the basis of a showroom demo.

 

[SILVERBACK]

dont try and convince yourself (or have someone on here etc do that) just buy what you want.at the end of the day if you like lcd for your picture then what does it matter what anyone else says?

 

[Monarch]

That is something that I didn't know (i.e. that there is much more details on plasmas in dim conditions). I thought its just general colours/balance is not that good under bright light...

Under bright lighting the light will reflect inside the plasma cells (and then come out again), this is what gives the dull and washed out picture you see in the shops, it also explains very grey black levels and why plasmas aren't suitable for bright rooms.

If you prefer the picture of an LCD then you're not the only one but the general opinion amongst experts (and myself) is that a plasma will ultimately give you a better SD and 'movie' picture than an LCD given the right viewing conditions. But you can't really judge from a shop, or even a showroom. I'm lucky because I know the owner of a local specialised shop who have a 'back room' where they have their fun so I've had a fiddle with a lot of these TVs (which have also been calibrated most of the time) in dim conditions, that's hard to get normally though

 

[petet66]

dont try and convince yourself (or have someone on here etc do that) just buy what you want.at the end of the day if you like lcd for your picture then what does it matter what anyone else says?

Well said. Watching a TV is a subjective experience at the end of the day. There's nothing more crazy than someone saying that they liked preferred X but bought Y because it got better reviews etc.

I personally have never found an LCD tv that I don't see bad pixellation on fast movement and prefer the more CRT look of plasmas but I've also seen some very impressive LCD TV displays in stores.

Your eyes, your house, buy what you like to watch and ignore those who tell you that you're wrong!

 

[gIzzE]

I have a Pioneer 500M and a Samsung B650 LCD, I would say that for everyday viewing of SD material the Samsung is the better set, no, that's not quite right, it's not better because technically the Pioneer has better blacks, better processing and better greyscale and overall colour accuracy, but the Samsung is the one that impresses me most and is the more pleasing to watch.

After a week with either you will be used to them anyway.

What I will say is this though, in your average sitting room the Plasma will end up being the brighter of the two displays, I know that sounds stupid considering how dull they look in stores, but when you get back home and set it up under normal viewing conditions you will need the LCD backlight down on 1 or 2 to get the blacks as good and at that point the extra snap you get from it being brighter is suddenly lost.
During the day though the LCD will be brighter and it will look like it has a far better black level, but only in the brightest of rooms.

The one area where the LCD shines is how sharp it looks compared to the plasmas, you never get used to that.

 

[bladedripper]

Op, i wish i could walk into a shop and convince myself that a lcd was better than a plasma (like alot of gaming)but i cannot. So buy what you like and be happy.

 

[OppoPX14]

I'm new here but I'll share my thoughts anyway. I like LCD! I have a Mac with two Formac monitors, I just bought a new Mac mini and the new Apple display(first display I've found in four years that does better than my Formac's). As far as DVD watching go's, My new TC-42PX14 is so much better than my LCD's. I'm not rich(I make about $45,000. per year)but when I work my 5~7 months out of the year(Construction), I get fat checks. This enables me to buy my goody's! a few times during the year, so I like to spend wise and get it right the first time!

Maybe if you had a plasma in your home environment, things may look different for you.

I've only had my Plasma for a few weeks and I'm still dropping my jaw a few times a nite. I've had some friends over to watch movies and they've all claimed the plasma looks better than there LCD's, a few of the friends have money and are using $1500.~$2300. lcd's dating 1~2 years old.

So dont sell yourself short! Give one a try and you may be surprised.

I was very impressed with all the reviews of TX-P42G10/V10 plasmas that I went to my local JL store to check them in action. They did not unfortunately have V10 (promised to have it on a display within a week though) so I ended up only looking at G10. I have to say that I was rather disappointed to say the least. They looked quite dull comparing to almost everything they had in the shop.

I must admit I never had plasmas before, but I know that comparing them side by side with LCD TVs in bright conditions won't do them any justice, so I was prepared to let that go, however I discovered something else in the process. G10 had incredibly soft picture. After spending quite a bit of time in front of it I went to check out 7th series LED based Samsungs (UE-B7020 in particular) and was really blown away by the difference. Even if don't take brightness/colours into account (even though I did find Samsung colours a bit over the top, it did look quite amazing) there is a world of difference in resolution between them.

Maybe its just because I spend 10+ hours a day in front of high-end 24'' computer monitor (with HD resolution) and I used to watching HD material on it as well, but I find Panasonics plasmas not really comparable to LCDs in terms of details when watching HD material. I know I won't be sitting to the TV that close but not that far either (not more than 7ft) and sharpness difference is very obvious at that distance.

I'm still willing to have a go at watching V10 model in THX mode, but I'm sure that won't bring in any more details. So is plasma not really for me? Should I be looking at LCDs if I want more resolution and actually plan to watch HD material from a PC via HDMI (both Blurays and Freesat)?

 

[someuser08]

I know where he's coming from though. It's not quite as simple as just going with what you see because he, like me, might give a lot of credence to the experience and technical knowledge of people on these boards.

for example, It seems almost universally accepted amongst AV experts that the Pioneer Kuro is better than the new Samsung LEDs. But I (and maybe the OP) stand in front of these panels and try to work out how such a mind-blowingly detailed image as the Samsung with Bluray, could be considered inferior to the softer looking Pioneer.

I went to a shop to show my wife the TV we were getting a few months ago, it was a 42" Kuro, she didn't like it because she said the white looked "a dirty grey colour". She then became transfixed with an LCD playing bluray because it looked razor sharp. I couldn't explain why the KURO was better because, on the quiet, I too was more impressed with the LCD. We didn't buy the Kuro. I need punching in the face - Hard!

My thoughts and my situation exactly I also went to the shop with my missus and her thoughts after she looked at Panasonic was - "Is that the great TV you were talking about for the last two weeks"?

 

[SILVERBACK]

the problem with lcds for me is that they SHOULD look great with hd stuff.you feed a lesser quality signal into an lcd and watch it squirm.i have owned 2 plasmas and 1 lcd and i certainly wouldn't go back to lcd.sure they look bright and eye catching with hd material and in stores.you try living with one day in day out lol.

 

[bladedripper]

you try living with one day in day out lol.

Yep thats the problem i have with lcd is the sd performance,i can watch sd on my 50" plasma from 7ft away all day,on a lcd it would be impossible for me at that distance.

 

[someuser08]

Well, I really need to look at SD performance then. I did ask for SD source to be displayed on G10 in the shop, but they only had analogue input which was really horrible... I have to find another shop that would also have dimmed environment for plasmas. Anyone knows something central in London?

 

[someuser08]

you feed a lesser quality signal into an lcd and watch it squirm.

Does this argument still stand if I would always do upscaling externally and feed only 1080p via HDMI to it?

 

[ramdrive]

It's me also

I have always had plasma's up to a couple of days ago, I wanted a new 37" and automatically set me sites on the X10 plasma but when visiting the shop I was very disappointed with the detail and blurred image of the Plasma. Right next to the X10 was a 37G10 LCD and the detail was amazing and I left the shop an LCD convert.

I like raw detail, is that not the point of HD? only LCD at this time can give you that great 3D feel to images IMHO.

I went for the 37S10 LCD in the end, and I am very happy with it!

I was very impressed with all the reviews of TX-P42G10/V10 plasmas that I went to my local JL store to check them in action. They did not unfortunately have V10 (promised to have it on a display within a week though) so I ended up only looking at G10. I have to say that I was rather disappointed to say the least. They looked quite dull comparing to almost everything they had in the shop.

I must admit I never had plasmas before, but I know that comparing them side by side with LCD TVs in bright conditions won't do them any justice, so I was prepared to let that go, however I discovered something else in the process. G10 had incredibly soft picture. After spending quite a bit of time in front of it I went to check out 7th series LED based Samsungs (UE-B7020 in particular) and was really blown away by the difference. Even if don't take brightness/colours into account (even though I did find Samsung colours a bit over the top, it did look quite amazing) there is a world of difference in resolution between them.

Maybe its just because I spend 10+ hours a day in front of high-end 24'' computer monitor (with HD resolution) and I used to watching HD material on it as well, but I find Panasonics plasmas not really comparable to LCDs in terms of details when watching HD material. I know I won't be sitting to the TV that close but not that far either (not more than 7ft) and sharpness difference is very obvious at that distance.

I'm still willing to have a go at watching V10 model in THX mode, but I'm sure that won't bring in any more details. So is plasma not really for me? Should I be looking at LCDs if I want more resolution and actually plan to watch HD material from a PC via HDMI (both Blurays and Freesat)?

 

[SILVERBACK]

if its sd perfomance you are after then plasma all the way for me.

 

[choddo2006]

I like raw detail, is that not the point of HD? only LCD at this time can give you that great 3D feel to images IMHO.

It's not the only point. There's no point having pin sharp static resolution if you get smearing and weak blacks.

The 37X10 of course, is never going to be as sharp as a 1080p screen with HD sources, since it's having to scale everything down to 1024x720.

But if you're sat 10 feet away in the evening and just want to get engaged in a movie... I'd rather not be thinking "what am I supposed to be able to see in those shadows?" and the sharpness is far less important imho.

 

[ramdrive]

True, but there is no issue with the blacks on my S10 there is plenty of shadow detail. I have come from a plasma and the black level is only very slightly better.

It's not the only point. There's no point having pin sharp static resolution if you get smearing and weak blacks.

The 37X10 of course, is never going to be as sharp as a 1080p screen with HD sources, since it's having to scale everything down to 1024x720.

But if you're sat 10 feet away in the evening and just want to get engaged in a movie... I'd rather not be thinking "what am I supposed to be able to see in those shadows?" and the sharpness is far less important imho.

 

[ramdrive]

The 1080p 37G10/37S10 display will rip the internal freeview signal apart (It looks over processed and unnatural), to over come this I use my old sony freeview box and lowered the sharpness and voila from my viewing distance I get a fully watchable picture.

I have ordered Sky HD so that should be better on SD as well... Hopefully

Upscaled DVD's look fantastic on the S10, I see detail I never noticed before on my Plasma.

Well, I really need to look at SD performance then. I did ask for SD source to be displayed on G10 in the shop, but they only had analogue input which was really horrible... I have to find another shop that would also have dimmed environment for plasmas. Anyone knows something central in London?