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Panasonic Panic

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Drew C, Feb 26, 2003.

  1. Drew C

    Drew C
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    :rolleyes: Everyone knows about 'Sound and Vision' selling the Panny ptae100 for £799, but has anyone actually bought one from this company?
    Is this really worth going for, or is it worth paying more for a newer model such as the hs10?
    Is the performance of the hs10 over the panny worth the extra money?
    Also, does anybody know where i can see a demo in yorkshire or the north east?
     
  2. John_N

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    IMHO you need to decide on a budget and stick to it.

    If you have the budget to buy an HS10 at £2100, you shouldn't be looking at the AE100. And vice versa. They are in different price ranges and according to what I have heard, are in different performance ranges too, although I hasten to add there are a lot of happy AE100 owners out there who find it more than adequate.

    You're not really comparing like with like. If you can't really afford the HS10 then I would advise not bothering and either waiting a while or buying something you can affford. If you can afford the HS10 (and don't gorget to budget for a screen as well) then you should be looking at other units around the 2000 - 2500 mark...

    my 2p worth (again)
    J
     
  3. El Indio

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    Hi Drew!

    When I predicted the AE100 someday breaking £1000 when it was launched I was scoffed at by some members of this board. Now it is less than £800

    The AE100 (despite its niggles) is still an amazing piece of kit. It was a breakthrough PJ and still gives a picture close to its expensive rivals.

    The Sony's main advantage is that it is high-definition. In the UK most TV broadcast/DVDs are low definition. :(

    Sorry, I've had no experience of the retailer you mentioned.

    El
    BTW. The AE100 needs a dark room. This is not a projector to replace you TV.
    Also - I believe Panasonic have new replacement models coming out, and the overall price trend seems to be downwards :)
     
  4. Irish1

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    Yep ordered one yesterday and a mate of mine got his last week, this price is real value for money, any reviews you read about this projector will say the value to quality ratio is 5 star and thats at £1500 - £2000.

    If money is not a problem the obviously theres better quality projectors to be bougth, personally like the SIM2.

    Might I add a note to any Irish here, Soundandvision.uk.com will deliver this projector to Ireland, and considering that the cheapest price here is €1600 on Komplett.ie sound and vision's offer is real value. 2 other quotes I got her were €2500 and €2400. The total cost from sound and vision was £850 including delivery that under €1300!!!!!!!
     
  5. gingercat

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    I got one from them last week - and it looked fantastic... until it decided to stop lighting up when I turn it on. Not too worried, Panasonic are (supposed to be) collecting it today to repair it - a mate of a mate had the same problem with his apparently (not bought from same place) and since the Panasonic repair (about 1 year ago) its been working perfectly.

    btw mine is an August 2002 model.

    oh - my PJ has just this second been collected...
     
  6. theritz

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    Hey Irish1, welcome aboard - make sure you movie room is nice and big !!!

    Hey Gingercat,

    Hope you get sorted out. Pls check in at Timh's thread here ]here[/URL] if you haven't already done so.


    Cheers,

    Sean G.
     
  7. Mark P

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    been considering one of these for ages now, but have decided to save a bit more for the sanyo z1. i'm fed up of hearing problem, after problem after problem associated with the panasonic. these being collected left right and centre for repair for one reason or another. it looks a great bit of kit, but has imo too much baggage
     
  8. Drew C

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    I think i'ld have to agree with mark. Theres no point buying a 'bargain' if theres a high risk of having problems with it. If I had one for only a week and it went faulty, i wouldnt be happy with someone repairing it, I would insist on a new unit.
    So after much thought, Im going to wait a bit longer, save up a bit more money and opt for one of the newer models such as the sanyo z1 or the h10. Anyone know where i can demo any in the north of england?
     
  9. Daithi

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    Hi Irish1, how did you get it delivered to you? They just told me in mail that they will not deliver outside of the UK mainland.
     
  10. Irish1

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    Well someone I know got them to agree to it and I just phoned and they said fine, BUT when I asked could they give me a quote for DVD player they said no, that they can't ship outside the uk but management was allowing them to ship the projector.

    If it's the projector your after pm and I'l give you details of who I was talking to
     
  11. calibos

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    Welcome to avforums Irish1. You'll find a lot more info here and usually get plenty of answers to your posts much quicker than boards ie.
     
  12. donmc

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    But the point is at £799 the pj is a complete no brainer as an entry point PJ. I'm one of the one's who had it go faulty after 4 weeks. Happy to have it repaired as no stuck pixels, good colour uniformity, collect and repair warranty at no charge. You also have the option of a loan unit but this seems to slow the process down considerably. Since getting it back its been faultless. I think most people who have had it repaired have had no further problems. If you can afford it go for something more expensive (I nearly said better then) but otherwise the Panny is brilliant!

    Don
     
  13. bonzobanana

    bonzobanana
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    My understanding of the situation is that this projector had a large run where the wrong capacitors were fitted in the psu board and this is the real problem with the projector. Put simply they weren't up to the job. Once repaired this projector should be as reliable if not more so than other projectors out there. The real worry is getting a model that is reliable within the first year and then goes shortly after.

    However the fact is this is a known fault and therefore is not of merchantable quality. If such a fault occures within 3 years I would say there would be absolutely no problem getting this sorted even if you had to go to court to get it repaired but if that occured you could also apply for costs. Obviouisly faults outside the psu section would be harder to get repaired and you'd have to get a engineer to assess if the fault was due to a defect or wear and tear which is much more complicated.

    To be honest without this fault the panasonic would not be sold at the price it is. Its got a bad reputation for reliability now and hence the price is low to sell them.
     
  14. Kramer

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    An interesting suggestion :smoke:

    We don't generally see LCD PJs discounted to this level - especially "best buy" units.

    Me thinks there could well be some truth behind your assertion.

    But be warned - prepare to be flamed :D 130 "happy" owners queueing up to get you :rotfl:
     
  15. Big_AL007

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    It is being sold at this price because new models are coming out soon. Denon just did it with the 3802.
     
  16. Walter mitty

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    Yep I bought mine off them when it was £1250. No probs whatsoever it`s simply Brilliant

    I`ve bought lots off them ie/ Tv`s Hi Fi equipment, never had any problems I think they are a great company, The shop in Bolton is any way. They even let, me check for dead/stuck pixels and compare it to others. I cant speak highly enough of them.

    Don`t waste your money on more expensive PJ`s coz you`ll be delighted with the Panny, It really is a superb Pj for that money
     
  17. bonzobanana

    bonzobanana
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    I would suggest the level of discounting of the Panasonic is in excess of normal discounting. I mean a LCD projector with a good spec from a top manufacturer for £800 seems an exceptional price. Are there any other projectors going for this price whose original price was £1500.

    Whats probably true is if you see the Panasonic sold as 'refurbished' or 'ex demo' what it really will be is a guarantee return which has been fixed, tidied up and sold on. These will be a good option because they should be fault free. I know manufacturers should be honest and say 'manufacturer's repair' but they never do as people don't want to buy previously faulty items so they make up a ******** description which sounds better. I mean what with a return rate suggested as high as 25% its pretty obvious these are going to come back on the marketplace somehow and I've yet to see any dealer offering these as manufacturer repaired. With a 12 month guarantee and uprated capacitors there shouldn't be anything to worry about except for some use of bulb life but then with the capacitors not being up to the job I doubt if many get that far before failing anyway and hopefully bulb use will be on the lesser side of 50 hours.
     
  18. theritz

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    Hi bonzobanana,

    Welcome to the forums.

    Your assertions about the Sound and Vision offer being manufacturer refurbs is an interesting one - as for the return rate being 25%, not so sure about that - the level of response to Kramers thread (which itself was prompted by a number of AE100s failing at the same time) doesn't reflect the number of owners registered in Timh's thread, so I don't think that can be taken as a representative sample. I think also that although there is a good number of owners named here from the U.K. and Ireland, it is probably only a small sample compared to the total number of units sold in the market here. You should also take into account that in the majority of cases, units which have had power supply failures have been repaired and returned to their owners, while there was a number of cases of units being replaced. I do recall last year that one firm (sponsors here, IIRC), sold a number of refurb units, identified as such at the time of sale.

    I am sure that Sound and Vision would be obliged to declare the matter if they were now selling refurb units - perhaps some of the newest owners would indicate the date of manufacture (white label with month and year on the underside of the AE100), and could check in the service menu to see if the lamp hrs has been reset.

    I think that it is more likely that Panasonic wishes to "clear the decks" in advance of the introduction of the AE200 and AE300, which is due to come to market here in March, AFAIK. It is unlikely that the market could sustain pricing of the AE200 and 300 at significant premia above the until recently retail price of the AE100.

    Your contribution is very welcome as it would appear to come from a position of some familiarity with the trade - as a matter of interest, are you involved in the industry as a dealer or does this arise from the same general interest that we all share in home cinema?

    All the best,


    Sean G.
     
  19. bonzobanana

    bonzobanana
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    Eeep I'm not saying that I'm saying there should be ex-demo and refurbished stock coming on to the market if the projector has an inherent problem. I suspect the sound and vision offer is purely down to poor reputation but if there is a real problem then refurbished and ex demo stock should start appearing for less.

    Theres bound to be a percentage of people who refused to have a repaired projector and simply had a replacement or refund. These projectors will mount up in numbers if there is a big reliability problem then there should be a large number of these having to be resold once their repaired and repackaged.
     
  20. Kramer

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    As a former AE100 owner (had 2), & now the proud owner of a HS10, I can't agree here.

    Yes, for an entry level PJ, the AE100 is great for < £800, but the extra I paid for my HS10 was money VERY well spent - I can assure you.

    Agreed :)

    But more money can & does secure a substantially better projector :smashin:
     
  21. Walter mitty

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    Well it`s only my oppinion but I have always saved lots of money with Sound and Vision, thats why I always buy my gear from them, my TV for instance was £600 cheaper than I could purchase it locally. I reckon they just need to clear them as the demand for them has become less. It was the same when they had the Toshiba Pj cheap, think its was Nt1 when the nt 3 came out.

    Like I said if I want something cheap I always phone them. It`s only my oppinion. I live out in the sticks a bit so they`re good for me. There are cheaper maybe but S&V do sell good top make stuff. I like them never had any probs only excellent service. Mind you I can only speak for the Bolton shop.
    I paid £1250 for my Panny there when it was far dearer any where else,
    I don`t know how they do it. I must say I never thought it would come down as low as it has.
     
  22. El Indio

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    I think this statement is a little misleading. Sure there are conditions where the AE100 would be a poor choice, eg: in a brightly lit room, no access to PC as source, or viewing high definition material.

    However, for watching DVDs in a light controlled room, with reasonable sitting distance, and the AE100 driven by a PC - I find it hard to believe that ANY pj is that much better.

    El
     
  23. Kramer

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    Your opinion :p

    Mine obviously differs :smoke:

    Is this "belief" based on actual viewing of an assortment of PJs, or on speculation, as I suspect??

    I've owned 2 AE100s (clocked up > 1200 hours between them), seen 3/4 other LCD units & a couple of CRTs (not ideal situations here though), & IMHO, the HS10 is dramatically better than the AE100 (& ALL other sub £3k units!).

    Bloody thing is noisy as hell though, but does keep the room nice & warm, not to mention dust free! 5 fans sucking all that air through the filter - actually, it's a type of air purifier too :rotfl:

    I:kisses: my HS10 :smashin:
     
  24. theritz

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    Kramer,

    This is likely to be quoted back to you ad nauseum , you know that, don't you ????

    We'd never have guessed that !!


    I guess the issue here is whether someone is happy with the AE100/whatever pj they've got - I've no doubt that the HS10 throws a better picture, in objective terms, than the AE100,


    However, if the HS10 wasn't better than the AE100 at now 2.5 times the price (disregarding tech stuff newer technology, higher resolution, brightness, contrast, access to service menus etc.,) then there would be something seriously amiss.

    It is now also obvious that practically all PJs have their foibles/issues - the AE100's have been well rehearsed here over the past year (almost), both from the powersupply issue and vertical banding, colour uniformity, screndoor, colour accuracy and the HS10 would appear to have its isues too - bulb bug, black levels, noise.

    Its clear that whatever PJ you pick, it ain't the same as buying a telly - this is not a switch on/sit back purchase imo - some degree of tweaking is necessary to get the best out of it. But here's the real joy - they can be gotten to work at their best - AE100 through PC, Hoya, slight defocus - it looks brill - sure there's room for it to be better but nothing is ever perfect. I'm happy with mine, and if you'd seen the grin :D on Vex's face in my place last week, you'd know why.

    Anyway dreams of CRT keep haunting me ~(sinful, isn't it :devil: ?) so a HS10 seems tame !!!!!! :rotfl: :hiya:


    All the best,


    Sean G.
     
  25. bonzobanana

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    I see robert whyte are doing ex demo (more likely manufacturers returns) for £599 (inc vat) but plus £30 postage and about £9 credit card surcharge. Still £640 with a full years guarantee. I believe someone who bought such a projector found it was immaculate and had only 2 hours use which to my mind makes it far more likely to be a repair than a demo. Anyway the link is;

    http://www.robertwhyteltd.co.uk/shop2/vidpro/pan_pta3100ecdemo.htm

    You can buy a normal new model for about £1170 all in from the same site.

    Put simply someone after a decent projector now has the opportunaty to buy one for about the same money as a basic 32" widescreen.
     
  26. sainthalo

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    just to confirm the legal scenario above is correct and add that costs would not be recoverable in a small claims court claim. Costs however would be in the region of £27 IIRC. Filling in a draft claims form with a letter of notice of claim should be sufficient for any reasonable retailer to take heed though.
     

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