Panasonic JZ2000 disappointment 😞

not tried apple plus. the built in apps arent bad, it's just they push some formats like Dolby vision which reduce user adjustment options. You may find they work well for you.. it will be a try and see situation
 
Thanks, have got my OLED yet but quite fancy the JZ2000 but don't want to be disappointed like the OP TomNZ is. Our main source of TV viewing is currently Sky Q, so if some content is better viewed from other providers then i'm open to change.
 
not used the JX2000, an led?? If you go for the OLED panny I doubt you will be disappointed.. I did notice in Richer sounds, their tvs using their skybox looked quite bad.. so maybe find out from someone how these TVs perform using a sky Q box 👍
 
I made the mistake of going with my brother to buy a tv now every problem is my problem 😂 he bought a Sony the os and apps where a nightmare my Phillips 935 are not great the best was Samsung I never had a lg so can’t comment my new tv is the jz I bought new Apple TV once set to 4K sdr not Dolby vision I’ve never looked back it now auto switch’s to the correct piture preset Vincent’s advice I’ve not had any motion judder
 
We’ve had an 65FZ802B OLED for three years and are very happy with the picture and motion after not getting on with an LG 65E7

We use the TV’s built-in iPlayer and Amazon Prime and Apple TV+ through an Amazon 4K firestick. We had an old Apple TV third generation which we don’t really use now. Just wondered if a newer Apple TV 4K would be worth getting?
 
We’ve had an 65FZ802B OLED for three years and are very happy with the picture and motion after not getting on with an LG 65E7

We use the TV’s built-in iPlayer and Amazon Prime and Apple TV+ through an Amazon 4K firestick. We had an old Apple TV third generation which we don’t really use now. Just wondered if a newer Apple TV 4K would be worth getting?
I'm not familiar with that TV, or what picture output options the firestick has. What I will say is most TVs have more picture adjustment features for HDMI sources, than built in apps. The Apple TV 4k allows you to have almost any combination of Resolution, refresh rate and colour gamut. It also allows you to set any one of those to be dictated by the Apple TV source material. i.e. You can fix the resolution at 4k with SDR, but let the frame rate match the source material (50hz for documentaries, 24hz for movies).
The benefit is, you can configure this in Apple to give your TV whichever signal it handles best. This will be subjective based on what you are sensitive to.

I find the apple tv a godsend, as being able to adjust intelligent frame creation when watching iplayer lets me get a perfect viewing experience. I dont have this option with the in built iplayer app... YMMV
 
I made the mistake of going with my brother to buy a tv now every problem is my problem 😂 he bought a Sony the os and apps where a nightmare my Phillips 935 are not great the best was Samsung I never had a lg so can’t comment my new tv is the jz I bought new Apple TV once set to 4K sdr not Dolby vision I’ve never looked back it now auto switch’s to the correct piture preset Vincent’s advice I’ve not had any motion judder
same set up I use 👍
 
Just keep watching Gemini Man, Billy Lynn and 60 fps YouTube videos mate.

Don't expect miracles from Sony or any other TVs out there with certain 24 fps content. Try the opening scene in Hell or High Water in any TV with motion processing turned off and let us know your thoughts.

Try watching Zack Synder Army of the Dead (Netflix). There is one panning shot around 40 mins mark. It looks excellent on my Panasonic GZ OLED with IFC Low and looks horrendous on my Sony ZD9.
 
i find that i am quite susceptible to judder...i have a panny zt plasma and i prefer IFC set to ON. i just cant stand the judder effect i get from when its turned off...even at the cinema watching No Time To Die, the panning shots were horrible to me.

some people must be more sensitive to it than others....
 
netflix and amazon are okay, but you loose some of the picture options and modes... for example they repeatedly enable dolby vision, max out luminance and don't allow motion adjustment fully.. iplayer is rubbish.. so yea, not essential but I use apple tv for all apps
Not 100% sure but I think you can change to Dolby Vision Dark on the Panasonic which then unlocks the other options.
 
i find that i am quite susceptible to judder...i have a panny zt plasma and i prefer IFC set to ON. i just cant stand the judder effect i get from when its turned off...even at the cinema watching No Time To Die, the panning shots were horrible to me.

some people must be more sensitive to it than others....
at the cinema it depends... most of them use digital lcd projectors... these have terrible motion judder... DLP projectors, Laser projectors or the old 70mm... all have good motion... pick a better cinema 🙂..
 
at the cinema it depends... most of them use digital lcd projectors... these have terrible motion judder... DLP projectors, Laser projectors or the old 70mm... all have good motion... pick a better cinema 🙂..

went to an Odeon Luxe...guess i will need to go more upmarket next time lol
 
went to an Odeon Luxe...guess i will need to go more upmarket next time lol
I think its just luck, although I bet almost all have moved over to LCD now 🙁... I went to IMAX in london once and they had a temporary projector as the IMAX was being upgraded... motion was very jarring for me... so yea, its the digital age... nothing will beat crt or plasma for motion.. its in the nature of the technology, just looks natural to the human eye... most kids today don't know what 70mm reel projector or CRT or Plasma TVs look like for natural smooth Cinematic motion.. so don't know what they are missing.....
 
IFC helps to reduce judder. Turning it off will make things worse.
Not in my experience.

I have both smoothness and clearness disabled on my A90J and sincerely hope I'll be able to disable the according setting on my JZ2000 when it arrives Saturday.

Some of the picture presets have both settings enabled to varying degrees on the A90J and some content is a judder fest as a result.
 
What viewing source are people using (TV built in apps, Freesat, Sky Q etc?) when experiencing judder?
 
I think it's worth clarifying what this 'judder' is.. Oleds and LCDs are both super fast at switching each pixel on and off, and there is very little afterglow or ghost when they switch to the next frame.. they also instantly change from the previous colour to the subsequent frame colour.

Plasma was different in that the pixel would cycle through black between eqch frame before taking on the colour of the next frame. Along with only having to deal with 50hz(60hz depending on region) and 24hz for movies, this 'feature' meant the motion handling of these displays looked very natural to the human eye, it had 'black frame insertion' baked into the technology.

With Oleds and LCD tvs, the manufacturers employ methods to try to simulate the way our eyes like motion. Without them, if a panning shot has the right speed, to give an unnatural cadence between each frame, our eye sees a blurr or judder as a moving object or background appears to 'step' across the screen, left to right in a nausiating 'jump' each frame.

With 24fps material this would obviously seem worst as it has the biggest time interval between frames. However, 24fps is sort of a sweetspot for how our eyes enjoy moving objects. If the display technology simulates a suitable blurry tail on moving objects (such as with crt or plasma) at 24 frames this kinda matches what we experience if we move our head fast or are i a speeding vehicle.

So what am I getting at. Well, the IFC fills in the gaps by guessing the intermediate frames and therefore removes these 'steps' for an object between each if the 24 source frames. This works, but on crap TVs you get digital artifacts because of poor guesswork by the TV processor, or you get artificially smooth movement that our eye doesn't like, and looks un-cinematice (soap opera).

If you 'turn everything off' and the TV produces motion that looks best to you, this is ideal. It likely means the boffins at the TV company have baked in some low level of picture processing that is a baseline and works well. The 'adjustment' is further movement of these parameters above this.

With the panny jz1000 (and likely the 1500&2000 too), the processor appears to be able to compensate for all different degrees of judder and blurr very well. Id ve surprised if you can't tweak the IFC to a level that looks good to you (natural) for 24,50 and 60hz material.. although I found it struggled with 60hz (that had probably already been up converted from 50hz). I also found the panny limited display options when using internal apps.

I played with a sony a70j and also the lcd x90j. both, seemed unable to resolve some of the motion issues with 24hz and 50hz content. I messed with lots of settings, the x90j was the worst and was basically unwatchable, to the point where the sony engineer in the shop also couldnt sort it and basically just said 'it is what it is!'..

So long story short, I found these Pannys to have the best implementation and options for handling motion issues (for senstive viewers) without introducing soe. the sony oleds were good, but not as good. the LGs were great at motion, but SOE was unavoidable which was a dealbreaker for me...

Hope this helps, I'm not a technician so trying to write in Laymans terms from my own understanding
 
Not in my experience.

I have both smoothness and clearness disabled on my A90J and sincerely hope I'll be able to disable the according setting on my JZ2000 when it arrives Saturday.

Some of the picture presets have both settings enabled to varying degrees on the A90J and some content is a judder fest as a result.
I don't have any experience of the settings you mentioned on Sony TVs but if they're supposed to be equivalent to Panasonic's IFC (which is there specifically to reduce judder), then it sounds like they're poorly implemented if they actually make things worse.

This what Panasonic themselves have to say about IFC (taken from here)...

"One big issue you might experience when watching fast motion as sports is ‘motion blur’, otherwise known as judder. This is when the picture appears jerky, particularly as the camera is panning, and can have a big impact when you’re watching fast action scenes in football. To guard against this, and to make sure you get the smoothest experience, you should check your TV’s settings to see if it has an “Intelligent Frame Creation” feature. By turning this feature on, your TV will intelligently add additional frames to the broadcast - effectively creating a hybrid of the frame before and the frame after – helping reduce motion blur."

Certain Panasonic picture modes may have IFC enabled by default but you can normally change it or disable it completely to suit your own preference, or just avoid those modes if you want to disable it but can't.
 
So I waited and waited. Finally it was down to a Sony A90J or a Panasonic Jz2000.
My friendly local Panasonic dealer persuaded me and a few days later I have a brand new Jz2000 65 inch.

For the last 10 years I have had a Panasonic plasma.
This new TV is my first 4k Oled and to be honest I am really disappointed.

The judder I am getting on motion is just terrible. Panning shots are just awful. Watching squid game the other night it looked like my screen was going to shake itself to death.

I ran some tests and sadly it seems to be better if you leave all the frame creation etc on, it helps the motion, but the picture looks terrible.
I cant win.
I think I am going to take it back and stick with the plasma.
It's fair to say that some people seem more sensitive to motion issues than others, plus some don't like the SOE that IFC introduces (even at low levels) and prefer to turn it off completely, whereas others (including myself) find certain scenes almost unwatchable in terms of judder and have it on a Low (or a Custom low) setting and either don't notice - or get used to - a small amount of SOE. Interestingly, I also used to have IFC set to Low on my previous Panasonic plasma for similar reasons - plasmas aren't immune to motion issues either.

Leaving IFC permanently set to Low on my GZ950 gives an acceptable compromise between judder and SOE for me. I only notice problems occasionally and when they do occur, it'll most likely just be one particular, problematic scene rather than continuously spoiling my enjoyment - at least that's my experience with the content I watch, which is mainly Freeview and catch-up/Netflix/Prime/Disney+/YouTube via the TV's apps.

In terms of the content that causes it, panning shots featuring darker shapes on a bright or white background seem to be particularly problematic. I've actually been enjoying Squid Game without any issues right up until Episode 4. There is a panning shot around a seated group of people @ 38:14 which pretty-much amounts to a so-called 'torture test' for OLED motion-handling, I would imagine. My Low IFC setting did very little for that scene - after experimenting, only Medium and High came close to smoothing out the motion, but then I found the SOE to be very noticeable.
 
It's fair to say that some people seem more sensitive to motion issues than others, plus some don't like the SOE that IFC introduces (even at low levels) and prefer to turn it off completely, whereas others (including myself) find certain scenes almost unwatchable in terms of judder and have it on a Low (or a Custom low) setting and either don't notice - or get used to - a small amount of SOE. Interestingly, I also used to have IFC set to Low on my previous Panasonic plasma for similar reasons - plasmas aren't immune to motion issues either.

Leaving IFC permanently set to Low on my GZ950 gives an acceptable compromise between judder and SOE for me. I only notice problems occasionally and when they do occur, it'll most likely just be one particular, problematic scene rather than continuously spoiling my enjoyment - at least that's my experience with the content I watch, which is mainly Freeview and catch-up/Netflix/Prime/Disney+/YouTube via the TV's apps.

In terms of the content that causes it, panning shots featuring darker shapes on a bright or white background seem to be particularly problematic. I've actually been enjoying Squid Game without any issues right up until Episode 4. There is a panning shot around a seated group of people @ 38:14 which pretty-much amounts to a so-called 'torture test' for OLED motion-handling, I would imagine. My Low IFC setting did very little for that scene - after experimenting, only Medium and High came close to smoothing out the motion, but then I found the SOE to be very noticeable.
omg I just went to check this out 🤦🤦 absolute disaster that scene!! Jz1000, black frame insertion on auto, ifc on mid.. basically makes it watchable.. but the soe is unbearable..... This is a rare occurrence with that level of contrast, and the speed of the panning... I doubt any tv would cope with that.. except maybe a sony trinitron from 1995 😎
 
omg I just went to check this out 🤦🤦 absolute disaster that scene!! Jz1000, black frame insertion on auto, ifc on mid.. basically makes it watchable.. but the soe is unbearable..... This is a rare occurrence with that level of contrast, and the speed of the panning... I doubt any tv would cope with that.. except maybe a sony trinitron from 1995 😎
Yes - I don't actively go looking for these issues because it's a problem that rarely bothers me but that scene looked so bad, that I had to make a note of it !

It's definitely a worst case scenario as far as motion is concerned. Thankfully, scenes like that are few and far between, at least with the content I watch and the settings I use.
 
Yes - I don't actively go looking for these issues because it's a problem that rarely bothers me but that scene looked so bad, that I had to make a note of it !

It's definitely a worst case scenario as far as motion is concerned. Thankfully, scenes like that are few and far between, at least with the content I watch and the settings I use.

Both my oleds can’t handle that scene 😂 but as you say it’s the first thing I’ve seen
 
I'm not familiar with that TV, or what picture output options the firestick has. What I will say is most TVs have more picture adjustment features for HDMI sources, than built in apps. The Apple TV 4k allows you to have almost any combination of Resolution, refresh rate and colour gamut. It also allows you to set any one of those to be dictated by the Apple TV source material. i.e. You can fix the resolution at 4k with SDR, but let the frame rate match the source material (50hz for documentaries, 24hz for movies).
The benefit is, you can configure this in Apple to give your TV whichever signal it handles best. This will be subjective based on what you are sensitive to.

I find the apple tv a godsend, as being able to adjust intelligent frame creation when watching iplayer lets me get a perfect viewing experience. I dont have this option with the in built iplayer app... YMMV
Thanks for the info. You can change quite a few things on the firestick such as matching frame rate, resolution etc and there is a hidden menu to make it cycle through and force it to to play at a whole number of frame rates. I’ve used Apple products for work since 1993 so might treat myself to a TV4k
 
Thanks for the info. You can change quite a few things on the firestick such as matching frame rate, resolution etc and there is a hidden menu to make it cycle through and force it to to play at a whole number of frame rates. I’ve used Apple products for work since 1993 so might treat myself to a TV4k
make sure you get the very newest one.. it comes with the remote they finallllly fixed... I want it as cant stand the flat touch button one...
 
Yes good advice LockStock. After using the first Mac in the 1990s with a floppy disc drive and a separate greyscale screen, I’m always recommending designers in our studio to get the tools their most happy using 👍
 
Bought the Jz1500 a week ago, basically same as the jz2000. I'm watching mainly 24fps movies on it, and I ensure that the screen refresh rate from the source (kodi) matches the 24hz to avoid 3:2 pull-down. Anyhow, I've been struggling since day 1, exact same story as the poster here so I had to react. If IFC is off (like the movie gurus recommend these days), then stutter is untolerable, this is due to the oled low response time, I get that. So some level of IFC is a must for me, however as soon as this is activated, even on low, frame skips as visible, especially on panning scenes, it's like a frame skip each 2 or 3 seconds. With IFC to max the frame skips are mostly gone but SOE is just ridiculous. So there is no win here. Frustration to say the least. For the rest, picture quality is excellent...
 

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